Manny Pacquiao sometimes we forget just how good he really is

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

rain,

do you actually think morales was in his prime before the first pacquiao fight? look, pacquiao may not have been in his "talent" prime but he sure was in his physical prime, and that you cannot deny. morales, was coming off a loss with barrera. and what about de la hoya? do you think de la hoya was in his physical prime when he fought pacquiao? the man still had needles marks when he got into the ring for trying to get rehydrated. he was a walking zombie and you know it. come on, sometimes drinking that kool-aid can be detrimental to your health, sonny.

i will say this, barrera was still in his prime when he fought pacquiao. it's just that barrera had zero answers for pacquiao high work rate.

as far as marquez is concerned, he, i believe he was in his prime when he fought pacquiao twice and it showed. i think as well as you do that marquez beat pacquiao in their rematch.

what other mexican fighters are you talking about? for me, only morales wasn't in his prime anymore vs. pacquiao.

as far as pacquiao vs. other fighters, david diaz was in his prime and he got destroyed too. ricky hatton physically was in his prime but i think the mayweather jr. loss took his soul from him. he just wasn't the same after that. against cotto, the same could be said about him. after his destruction against margarito, he was in his physical prime but was f'ed up in his head. and let's not even discuss the shameful display of cowardice of joshua clottey. the man had all the physical tools to give pacquiao a much tougher fight but he just tanked it and got an easy retirement payday.

so again, where are all these mexican fighters you talking about?

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

rain,

do you actually think morales was in his prime before the first pacquiao fight? look, pacquiao may not have been in his "talent" prime but he sure was in his physical prime, and that you cannot deny. morales, was coming off a loss with barrera. and what about de la hoya? do you think de la hoya was in his physical prime when he fought pacquiao? the man still had needles marks when he got into the ring for trying to get rehydrated. he was a walking zombie and you know it. come on, sometimes drinking that kool-aid can be detrimental to your health, sonny.

i will say this, barrera was still in his prime when he fought pacquiao. it's just that barrera had zero answers for pacquiao high work rate.

as far as marquez is concerned, he, i believe he was in his prime when he fought pacquiao twice and it showed. i think as well as you do that marquez beat pacquiao in their rematch.

what other mexican fighters are you talking about? for me, only morales wasn't in his prime anymore vs. pacquiao.

as far as pacquiao vs. other fighters, david diaz was in his prime and he got destroyed too. ricky hatton physically was in his prime but i think the mayweather jr. loss took his soul from him. he just wasn't the same after that. against cotto, the same could be said about him. after his destruction against margarito, he was in his physical prime but was f'ed up in his head. and let's not even discuss the shameful display of cowardice of joshua clottey. the man had all the physical tools to give pacquiao a much tougher fight but he just tanked it and got an easy retirement payday.

so again, where are all these mexican fighters you talking about?

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Just a question: When do you think Pacquiao reached his prime and when did it start going down, or do you still consider him in his prime at this time?

The talk of Pac being one of the all time greats was started after his recent string of extremely over hyped wins. Pac is a great fighter...no question. He is exciting and has heart. But the last GREAT PRIME fighter he fought was Marquez. Juan had a draw in their first fight....though you can say he should have won. In their second fight Marquez AT THE VERY LEAST should have gotten a draw...though in the eyes of many he won that fight as well. He fought Morales 3 times...losing the first...and beating a shot fighter in the next 2 fights. That is the truth. Morales was nowhere near the fighter he once was in the their last 2 fights. I will simply give Pac credit for finishing off a fighter on the downturn of his career. The Barrera fights are tricky. No question Marco was distracted in their first fight. Would it have made a difference if he wasn't...maybe not. In their second fight...Barrera was gun shy. Some will argue that Barrera at that point was no longer the fighter he once was. Either way...Pac took care of business. I judge Manny by those fights. Those 3 Mexican fighters where all hall of fame fighters who where NOT at some point against Pac WAY past their prime. Manny deserves mad respect, win or lose, to have fought them. BUT...the hype that Manny is currently the greatest fighter in the world is based on his recent string of fights against cherry picked fighters who where all shot or had big issues. Hatton was always a one dimensional brawler. He was already showing that he was past it and was exposed by Mayweather. His incredible ballooning up and down in weight between fights certainly didn't help. Oscar was well past prime and incredibly weight drained against Pac. Roach is no dummy. He not only has picked fighters with big question marks recently...but he insures that they come in even weaker by fighting a few pounds lighter. Then there was Cotto. Cotto physically and mentally never recovered from the beating (most likely illegally) from Tony. And Clottey...the most punch shy fighter in the business...basically Pac fought a moving punching bag. And now you have Margerito. A disgraced fighter who has not stepped in the ring for well over a year. Now if Pac fought Mayweather and won...i will be the first to say he deserves all the accolades he has gotten recently. Until then...i ain't drinking the kool aid.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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What are you talking about?! Both Barrera and Morales started fighting professionally in their teens as well. Have you forgotten how many WARS they where both involved in before they fought PAC????!!!! The only true wars Pac was involved in is when he fought the same Mexican fighters you mentioned. Before that he was fighting a bunch of tomato cans. Get your facts straight.

Sometimes we forget how bitter losers are!

You can picked apart any guy's career. No fighter in boxing history has a 100% solid bulletproof resume that can't be picked apart. Ali is one of my favorite fighters ever to watch, but if I want I can picked apart his resume like it's nothing.

Cooper I: Ali was knocked down and stunned when he got up, Dundee bought time with ripping open Ali's glove and giving him smelling salts which are illegal in the UK to revive him.

Liston I,II: Fixed fight for both with the rumor that the mob and Black Muslims determining the outcome of the fight, and there was question to what exactly was Liston's age, there are sources that say Liston was in his mid 30's.

Chuvalo: Overrated Canadian bum that took a good shot

Cleveland Williams: shot fighter that didn't deserved a shot at the title.

Floyd Patterson I,II: A blownup MW that was chinny as hell as a HW.

Frazier I, III: Lost to Frazier in the 1st, he wanted to quit in the 3rd fight after the 14th round but Frazier's corner threw in the towel first.

Foreman: Big George had suffered a cut prior to the fight, was a 1 dimensional crude fighter that was sort of chinny.

Norton 1,2,3: Some say Ali lost 2 out of 3, and possibly all 3. People said he got gift decisions in those fights.

Spinks: A mediocre HW that got a shot at the title with only 7 or 8 pro fights and beat him. ALi came back to beat him in the 2nd fight, again a mediocre HW, so not impressive.

See, how easy it is to pick apart a fighter's resume? I don't believe that about Ali, he is the greatest HW. I can do it with Marvin Hagler too, who happens to be my favorite fighter ever.;)

Not only that but 9/10 Foreman would thrash Ali.

I like him, but someone was right when they said Ali is one of he most overrated boxers in history.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

The talk of Pac being one of the all time greats was started after his recent string of extremely over hyped wins. Pac is a great fighter...no question. He is exciting and has heart. But the last GREAT PRIME fighter he fought was Marquez. Juan had a draw in their first fight....though you can say he should have won. In their second fight Marquez AT THE VERY LEAST should have gotten a draw...though in the eyes of many he won that fight as well. He fought Morales 3 times...losing the first...and beating a shot fighter in the next 2 fights. That is the truth. Morales was nowhere near the fighter he once was in the their last 2 fights. I will simply give Pac credit for finishing off a fighter on the downturn of his career. The Barrera fights are tricky. No question Marco was distracted in their first fight. Would it have made a difference if he wasn't...maybe not. In their second fight...Barrera was gun shy. Some will argue that Barrera at that point was no longer the fighter he once was. Either way...Pac took care of business. I judge Manny by those fights. Those 3 Mexican fighters where all hall of fame fighters who where NOT at some point against Pac WAY past their prime. Manny deserves mad respect, win or lose, to have fought them. BUT...the hype that Manny is currently the greatest fighter in the world is based on his recent string of fights against cherry picked fighters who where all shot or had big issues. Hatton was always a one dimensional brawler. He was already showing that he was past it and was exposed by Mayweather. His incredible ballooning up and down in weight between fights certainly didn't help. Oscar was well past prime and incredibly weight drained against Pac. Roach is no dummy. He not only has picked fighters with big question marks recently...but he insures that they come in even weaker by fighting a few pounds lighter. Then there was Cotto. Cotto physically and mentally never recovered from the beating (most likely illegally) from Tony. And Clottey...the most punch shy fighter in the business...basically Pac fought a moving punching bag. And now you have Margerito. A disgraced fighter who has not stepped in the ring for well over a year. Now if Pac fought Mayweather and won...i will be the first to say he deserves all the accolades he has gotten recently. Until then...i ain't drinking the kool aid.

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Same question to you: When do you think Pacquiao reached his prime and when do you think it started going down, or is he still in his prime?

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

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Originally Posted by Hornfinger

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

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Be sure to consider the blood coming from the eyelid of Pacquaio due to a headbutt and see how he was fighting with his heart.

Compare it with Pac vs Morales 2 when he was almost at his best ( no blood flowing to his eyes) and you would see the difference when Pac is not distracted and when he is distracted.

You will also see how great he is considering that many would call him one dimensional at that time.;) Just watch the two fights without bias and you will understand what I'm trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them steroids got him closer to a prime 25. He's been 25 since 03.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Originally Posted by The Boogie Man

Not only that but 9/10 Foreman would thrash Ali.

I like him, but someone was right when they said Ali is one of he most overrated boxers in history.

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Ali worked on winning in and out of the ring. His opponents wern't quite as smart the fight was on weeks prior to the event. He'd work on them from inside their heads as well as from outside their heads on the day.

It all allowed him to get in there and move freely.
You have to hand it to him he found his own way to the top.
He had a chin and a resolve too.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Did you know violet D was massive pacquiao fan?

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Did you know violet D was massive pacquiao fan?

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yea and he's also a gangster slash pimp.

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Originally Posted by Hornfinger

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

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Don't forget the Morales rematch and rubber match to that. To top it off consider Marquez fighting PAC right now.

Ali is the most over hyped fighter in history?!!!!!!! A comment by someone who doesn't know jack about boxing. As far as when exactly Pac's prime was....it's just as important to ask when the prime of the fighters he has faced where. AGAIN...the best fighter he has faced who was in his prime was Marquez...and Pac had a draw and a controversial narrow victory against him. He faced Morales and Barrera at their primes and past their primes. I give him props and credit for facing those fighters. But his recent victories, the ones that many have said have made him an all time great, have been greatly over hyped.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Ali is the most over hyped fighter in history?!!!!!!! A comment by someone who doesn't know jack about boxing. As far as when exactly Pac's prime was....it's just as important to ask when the prime of the fighters he has faced where. AGAIN...the best fighter he has faced who was in his prime was Marquez...and Pac had a draw and a controversial narrow victory against him. He faced Morales and Barrera at their primes and past their primes. I give him props and credit for facing those fighters. But his recent victories, the ones that many have said have made him an all time great, have been greatly over hyped.

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There is no need to ask when the prime of the fighters Manny has faced where, I have already read it a thousand times in this forum that most of his opponents are past their prime. I just don't remember reading any mention of when Pacquiao's prime is.

You still haven't answered the question. When do you think Manny reached his prime and when did it start going down, or is he still in his prime?

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Did you know violet D was massive pacquiao fan?

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yea and he's also a gangster slash pimp.

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Your mom talks to much

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Did you know violet D was massive pacquiao fan?

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Yes he is. It pains him deeply to find out Pacquiao is nothing without his chemical enhancers.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Did you know violet D was massive pacquiao fan?

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yea and he's also a gangster slash pimp.

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My mother is a whore.

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We all know that.

To be honest I think Mayweather's win over Mosley makes his resume just as good as Pac's. I mean I don't care to much for Mayweather, but him and Pac are in the same place in atg. Also if they fight pretty sure Pac going to get out classed by Mayweather. The fighters to beat Mayweather aren't in this era, you need like a Hearns or Leonard to do the job but its not 1980's anymore so o well.

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Originally Posted by brucelee

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Originally Posted by Hornfinger

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

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Be sure to consider the blood coming from the eyelid of Pacquaio due to a headbutt and see how he was fighting with his heart.

Compare it with Pac vs Morales 2 when he was almost at his best ( no blood flowing to his eyes) and you would see the difference when Pac is not distracted and when he is distracted.

You will also see how great he is considering that many would call him one dimensional at that time.;) Just watch the two fights without bias and you will understand what I'm trying to say.

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I call it pre and post roids and also pre and post morales being shot.

they say that every great fighter on the downside has one great fight left. morales comes to mind when he beat pacquiao the first time. morales looked on the downside when he lost to barrera. he definitely looked shot against raheem and against pacquiao II & III and david diaz. i think what did him in was his street fighter mentality in which he needlessly engaged in many toe to toe wars. he was what he was, a fighter and entertainer first. maybe if he would have taken a different approach like boxing instead of having so many wars, he wouldn't have become as good as he became. another thing is that he wasn't very disciplined with his weight between fights. he killed himself to make weight numerous times and it showed in the latter part of his career.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

they say that every great fighter on the downside has one great fight left. morales comes to mind when he beat pacquiao the first time. morales looked on the downside when he lost to barrera. he definitely looked shot against raheem and against pacquiao II & III and david diaz. i think what did him in was his street fighter mentality in which he needlessly engaged in many toe to toe wars. he was what he was, a fighter and entertainer first. maybe if he would have taken a different approach like boxing instead of having so many wars, he wouldn't have become as good as he became. another thing is that he wasn't very disciplined with his weight between fights. he killed himself to make weight numerous times and it showed in the latter part of his career.

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Yep, a heart to match his chin; The all Mexican formula.

Says the vid is private.

He has an interview set to air in a few minutes on '60 minutes' here in the States....anyone see this yet??

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Originally Posted by Mr140

To be honest I think Mayweather's win over Mosley makes his resume just as good as Pac's.

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:o


Their TOP 8 wins IMO

Floyd

Diego Corrales
Jose Luis Castillo I, II
Shane Mosley ( 38 )
Ricky Hatton
Genaro Hernandez
Carlos Baldomir
Oscar Dela Hoya
Arturo Gatti


Pac

Marco Antonio Barrera
Miguel Angel Cotto
Juan Manuel Marquez
Ricky Hatton
Erik Morales II, III
Oscar DelaHoya (35)
Chatchai Sasakul
Lehlo Ledwabba



- Comparison will be validated by the knowledge of the rater off these fighters.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

He has an interview set to air in a few minutes on '60 minutes' here in the States....anyone see this yet??

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just watched it. was a really good interview and great exposure for boxing.

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

He has an interview set to air in a few minutes on '60 minutes' here in the States....anyone see this yet??

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just watched it. was a really good interview and great exposure for boxing.

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Was good yah. Interesting Roach talking him loosing up again. No mention of steroids,loaded wraps,or Don king...good for boxing.

What's Next For Manny Pacquiao? - 60 Minutes - CBS News

Great interview but the Candid 60 minutes overtime was disturbing, PAC I think completely forgot about his appointment with the host of the show.

Manny pacquiao is a triumph of human heart. there is no some sort of steroids that can help him do what he does right now. people are always stating that he struggled against jmm and will always be questioned with it. but, people forget manny pacquiao is really not as skilled as marquez in fact, very far from it during that time. fact is, jmm should have dominated this guy or knocked him out.

manny can never have the skill of a barrera,morales,marquez,dela hoya or even much more a floyd mayweather maybe not in his lifetime but what he does is win no matter how unfavorable the odds against him. "Doesn't matter if you got the so called better skills", he will find a way to win and you will still lose with him in the ring. you can be the bigger,stronger,more experienced and better skilled fighter but it doesn't matter if manny pacquiao wants to crush you,he can, and he will.That's what he has proven.

Manny pacquiao is the real Rocky Balboa it is as if he leap right out of the movie picture itself, he is a triumph of human heart. Enjoy him in his last 2-3fights because i dont think there will ever be someone like him again. ever...

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Did you know violet D was massive pacquiao fan?

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yea and he's also a gangster slash pimp.

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My mother is a whore.

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My mom is a AIDS infested whore with no teeth. And I still made her my wife

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Guess you weren't lying when you said you had hoez

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Originally Posted by sleepless

Manny pacquiao is a triumph of human heart. there is no some sort of steroids that can help him do what he does right now. people are always stating that he struggled against jmm and will always be questioned with it. but, people forget manny pacquiao is really not as skilled as marquez in fact, very far from it during that time. fact is, jmm should have dominated this guy or knocked him out.

manny can never have the skill of a barrera,morales,marquez,dela hoya or even much more a floyd mayweather maybe not in his lifetime but what he does is win no matter how unfavorable the odds against him. "Doesn't matter if you got the so called better skills", he will find a way to win and you will still lose with him in the ring. you can be the bigger,stronger,more experienced and better skilled fighter but it doesn't matter if manny pacquiao wants to crush you,he can, and he will.That's what he has proven.

Manny pacquiao is the real Rocky Balboa it is as if he leap right out of the movie picture itself, he is a triumph of human heart. Enjoy him in his last 2-3fights because i dont think there will ever be someone like him again. ever...

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You deserve your first CC from me. :cool:Well said.

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Originally Posted by sleepless

Manny pacquiao is a triumph of human heart. there is no some sort of steroids that can help him do what he does right now. people are always stating that he struggled against jmm and will always be questioned with it. but, people forget manny pacquiao is really not as skilled as marquez in fact, very far from it during that time. fact is, jmm should have dominated this guy or knocked him out.

manny can never have the skill of a barrera,morales,marquez,dela hoya or even much more a floyd mayweather maybe not in his lifetime but what he does is win no matter how unfavorable the odds against him. "Doesn't matter if you got the so called better skills", he will find a way to win and you will still lose with him in the ring. you can be the bigger,stronger,more experienced and better skilled fighter but it doesn't matter if manny pacquiao wants to crush you,he can, and he will.That's what he has proven.

Manny pacquiao is the real Rocky Balboa it is as if he leap right out of the movie picture itself, he is a triumph of human heart. Enjoy him in his last 2-3fights because i dont think there will ever be someone like him again. ever...

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Yes everybody knows Pacquiao is pretty much as skilled as Kid Thunder. The flip version. It's all heart he wins with. :beat:

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

why is it when one of those mexicans get beat they are suddenly out of their prime?

so it pac loses he is suddenly not in his prime too or does it only apply to them mexicans?

They talk about they've been in too many wars, fuck that every pac fight since he was 16 is a war. He's in his thirties now and them mexicans either were or were only in thier late 20's.

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He's in his 30's only on paper. Them straight left have been dominant since he was 24. He's been whooping mexicans since 03.

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You're absolutely right!

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Did you know violet D was massive pacquiao fan?

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yea and he's also a gangster slash pimp.

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My mother is a whore.

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My mom is a AIDS infested whore with no teeth. And I still made her my wife

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Guess you weren't lying when you said you had hoez

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bump ;D

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Originally Posted by Taeth

He definitely has some good skills, but Mayweather will show the world next year if he isn't thrown in jail for too long who the real top 10 p4p fighter of all time is, in this generation. He would maybe Cotto and Margarito look like fools in the right, same with CLottey. It's just too bad he will never get a chance. I actually think the better boxers have proven that Pacquiao's boxing ability isn't that good, I mean Cotto was outboxing him until he was worn out from damage, but who knows what would have happened with pre-Margarito Cotto. I don't think it took away from Cotto's speed and timing, but it did affect his power and chin.

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I think De La Hoya could have beaten Mayweather if he kept up the Jab the last few rounds, he started walking in with no jab and got tagged, Oscar would have won on points.

Just my opinion,Manny and Mayweather would be a great fight, both need a challenge and it is the fight we all need.


OzTszyu ;D