On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competition?

I was trying to think of when 2 really good heavyweihgts fought and there was vast difference in size and the small guy won?

Spinks vs Cooney
Holyfiled v Bowe II

Both of them must've been giving away 30 + pounds?

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I was trying to think of when 2 really good heavyweihgts fought and there was vast difference in size and the small guy won?

Spinks vs Cooney
Holyfiled v Bowe II

Both of them must've been giving away 30 + pounds?

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Haye vs Valuev? :D


*** Edit, sorry I retract that comment... Didn't realise you said VERY good. ***

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I was trying to think of when 2 really good heavyweihgts fought and there was vast difference in size and the small guy won?

Spinks vs Cooney
Holyfiled v Bowe II

Both of them must've been giving away 30 + pounds?

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A semi retired Gerry Cooney was not a really good hw. he was shot.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I was trying to think of when 2 really good heavyweihgts fought and there was vast difference in size and the small guy won?

Spinks vs Cooney
Holyfiled v Bowe II

Both of them must've been giving away 30 + pounds?

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A semi retired Gerry Cooney was not a really good hw. he was shot.

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Dunno about that - he had only lost to Holmes and had a very competitive fight with him. Apart from that he hadn't been in any wars. He was pretty inactive agreed. He was probably beating Spinks at the point of the stoppage too.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Have i repeated something you've said? Clearly one of your better views.

For the record - Wlad has zero chance against any of the named greats. No chin and far to saftey first for any legendary heavyweight.

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No you haven't repeated anything I've said I just wanted to make a joke at my own expense and point out that you (and not I) posted that....since I catch so much hell for my views.

Yeah you're right, Wlad's the only ever heavyweight to use defense, everyone else just allowed themselves to get punched.

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Vitali has a granite chin. With his size, ability and ring generalship it would be foolish for anyone to believe he's an easy touch. He clearly doesn't have the serious flaws Wlad has, even though he is possibly a less talented boxer.

No one would give you hell for that view. You get hell because you love Wlad unconditionally ;)

Fact!

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by ICB

Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.

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just based on what i see

you dont have to have the same opinion

IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk

ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa

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I can understand saying Ali is not the best HW of all time P4P but hard to argue him not being top 2 or 3....

6'3" gave him enough size to compete in any era...In fact he is larger then most heavyweights in eras prior.....He could take abuse beyond what most men could dream of...Down yes but never knocked out cold...Including against argueably the hardest p4p puncher ever in Foreman....First three time HW champion...He fought in an era where HW boxing was at its best and everyone had a different style but were the cream of the crop at that style.....His speed was amazing, he had credible power and was a master at making adjustments in the ring.......

Liston, Quarry, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, Chuvalo, Moore, Williams, Cooper, Terrell, Foster, Norton, Lyle....I mean those alone are a gauntlet that no other HW can claim even close to in talent as in terms of opposition....Shit the contenders were better then most of the champions we have had in HW history....

Maybe not #1 maybe so but dismissed with a "Naaaaaa"....I mean really this is Ali I don't understand how a case even has to be made for his status

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Originally Posted by BIG H

So what I mean is, they all meet each other on their very best night over 12 rounds. Take into consideration all factors, such as height e.t.c; e.g even if you think Rocky Marciano is the 'Greatest' heavyweight of all time, you surely would not expect him to beat Vitali Klitchko!

I think that some names that would not appear on the top 10 ATG list, would have a shout using this criteria.

Thoughts?

This is not about longjevity or legacy etc etc it's about one-on-one fights on their very best night.

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This is a VERY good topic and I love the way you have it going about....You are 100% correct using the method stated many not ATG hwts can be mentioned.....

Shavers can be a candidate just due to his power being enough to starch anyone on any night...Walcott a former chasmpion who could be a dark horse....Marciano on the stamina factor could wear down any HW......

Personally I like Jack Johnson as a favorite Jack was amazing and 75yrs ahead of his time in skillset when compared to others of his era....Sam McVey was damn dagerous!!!!

I can't even begin to choose who would truly win after thought so many names so good on certain nights.....The Buster Douglas that beat Tyson would be a canidate for certain

In the order of who I would most likely pick....

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Lennox or a Klitschko

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by BIG H

So what I mean is, they all meet each other on their very best night over 12 rounds. Take into consideration all factors, such as height e.t.c; e.g even if you think Rocky Marciano is the 'Greatest' heavyweight of all time, you surely would not expect him to beat Vitali Klitchko!

I think that some names that would not appear on the top 10 ATG list, would have a shout using this criteria.

Thoughts?

This is not about longjevity or legacy etc etc it's about one-on-one fights on their very best night.

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This is a VERY good topic and I love the way you have it going about....You are 100% correct using the method stated many not ATG hwts can be mentioned.....

Shavers can be a candidate just due to his power being enough to starch anyone on any night...Walcott a former chasmpion who could be a dark horse....Marciano on the stamina factor could wear down any HW......

Personally I like Jack Johnson as a favorite Jack was amazing and 75yrs ahead of his time in skillset when compared to others of his era....Sam McVey was damn dagerous!!!!

I can't even begin to choose who would truly win after thought so many names so good on certain nights.....The Buster Douglas that beat Tyson would be a canidate for certain

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Yeh, agree on Buster Douglas. I mean, he was generally a lazy fat bum, but he had talent and on that one night in history he was phenomenal!!

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by ICB

Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.

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just based on what i see

you dont have to have the same opinion

IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk

ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa

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I can understand saying Ali is not the best HW of all time P4P but hard to argue him not being top 2 or 3....

6'3" gave him enough size to compete in any era...In fact he is larger then most heavyweights in eras prior.....He could take abuse beyond what most men could dream of...Down yes but never knocked out cold...Including against argueably the hardest p4p puncher ever in Foreman....First three time HW champion...He fought in an era where HW boxing was at its best and everyone had a different style but were the cream of the crop at that style.....His speed was amazing, he had credible power and was a master at making adjustments in the ring.......

Liston, Quarry, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, Chuvalo, Moore, Williams, Cooper, Terrell, Foster, Norton, Lyle....I mean those alone are a gauntlet that no other HW can claim even close to in talent as in terms of opposition....Shit the contenders were better then most of the champions we have had in HW history....

Maybe not #1 maybe so but dismissed with a "Naaaaaa"....I mean really this is Ali I don't understand how a case even has to be made for his status

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i dont doubt ali is in the top 5 but people seem to place him unconditionally at number one and scoff at the fact that it might not be the case

My overall view of that era is that it was no better or richer in tallent than any other its just there was no real standout heavyweight so the fights were close and Ali was around and his mouth did all the talking :)

some of the guys you mentioned in your list would be beaten by the klits in exactly the same way as most of the contenders do today

cooper lost loads of fights

ali defended against london who wouldnt be top 20 in britain today

I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.

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Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.

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Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to

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People underrate Sonny Liston, no one knew his true age, reports say he was close to 40 when he fought Muhammad Ali i believe.

He actually had one of the best jabs in Heavyweight history, and ridiculously long reach for his height at 84 inches. And joke reports used to say his hand size was the size on dinner plates.

I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.

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Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to

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People underrate Sonny Liston, no one knew his true age, reports say he was close to 40 when he fought Muhammad Ali i believe.

He actually had one of the best jabs in Heavyweight history, and ridiculously long reach for his height at 84 inches. And joke reports used to say his hand size was the size on dinner plates.

I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.

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I'm not underrating him, I'm just pointing out that history tells us he got whooped twice by Clay/Ali. He wasn't showing any signs of aging prior to those fights, he'd just detroyed Patterson twice in ide a round each time and had been walking through the best the division had to offer and knocking them all out. It's odd how there is no official record of his age, but he was reportedely 32 when he fought Clay in 64. H elaimed to have turned pro at 21, so that would've confirmed that.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.

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Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to

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People underrate Sonny Liston, no one knew his true age, reports say he was close to 40 when he fought Muhammad Ali i believe.

He actually had one of the best jabs in Heavyweight history, and ridiculously long reach for his height at 84 inches. And joke reports used to say his hand size was the size on dinner plates.

I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.

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I'm not underrating him, I'm just pointing out that history tells us he got whooped twice by Clay/Ali. He wasn't showing any signs of aging prior to those fights, he'd just detroyed Patterson twice in ide a round each time and had been walking through the best the division had to offer and knocking them all out. It's odd how there is no official record of his age, but he was reportedely 32 when he fought Clay in 64

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I think they say he was 36 when he fought Muhammad Ali.

His age is irrelevant. If you show blinding form and take a fearsome reputation into a contest you can't start making excuses - of being past it/out of form - if you get whipped.

This age argument in boxing is a very dubious one.

Liston was a plodder , prime george foreman beheads him , and if a light punching ali boxes him to a standstill , larry holmes / Lewis / vitali / all beat him for me.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Liston was a plodder , prime george foreman beheads him , and if a light punching ali boxes him to a standstill , larry holmes / Lewis / vitali / all beat him for me.

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Sonny Liston used to spar with George Foreman, supposedly taught him all the bullying tactics.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I think I would roll with Sonny Liston and his jab.

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Unless he had to face Ali? Which on the basis of this competition, he would have to

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I think Sonny Liston is one of the most underrated Heavyweight champions.

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The only problem with Underrated fighters, is that they are easily overrated ;D

No, in all fairness, I think he beats all the guys Marciano beat (Charles, Walcaott, Moore etc). Him against Louis would of been an epic tear up.... But beyond that, I think a lot of other greats beat him up.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Liston was a plodder , prime george foreman beheads him , and if a light punching ali boxes him to a standstill , larry holmes / Lewis / vitali / all beat him for me.

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Sonny Liston used to spar with George Foreman, supposedly taught him all the bullying tactics.

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Yes i know , but Liston was at his peak when he fought patterson , Foreman at his peak when he fought ali , put them together and i think Foreman stops him inside 3 rounds.
would love to have seen the fight :)

:headscratch:Hmmmm....

Just found these (Opinions on Foreman Vs Liston):

Ernie Terrell
Chicago based promoter Ernie Terrell is a former WBA heavyweight champion.

"Oh boy, it would have been something to watch! We're talking about two very tough men, not just tough fighters, Liston was a very good boxer in his prime, which was the late-50's and early-60's. I sparred with him, but since I was much taller, and was a boxer, his jab, which was one of his best weopons, didn't affect me the way it did most other fighters. Physically, he could do more in the ring than Foreman.
It's a shame Foreman couldn't combine the power and speed of his youth with the improved defense and maturaity he shows today. Still, he was a very strong guy. Most of the men he knocked out he hurt first. Foreman had a great chin, but even greater determination. Getting up from those knockdowns and coming back to beat Ron Lyle proved what he was made of.
The fight would flow the same way Foreman-Lyle did. Both men would connect with big punches. But Liston was abetter all-round boxer, and he was certainly a better puncher than Lyle. By o means would it be an easy fight for Liston. But I see him coming on as Foreman weakens, and scoring a knockout around the 11th round."


Chuck Wepner
A heavyweight contender in the 70's, Chuck Wepener was stopped by both Liston and Foreman.

"I fought Liston in his last fight, and Foreman when he was on his way up, so I speak from experience when I say they were two of the hardest punchers ever. it would be hard to match two harder-hitting heavyweights. Even though I though Liston was at the end, I thought he was still a very good boxer. He took a good punch, and he had a lot of savvy. In his prime, he could do it all.
When he was younger, Foreman's most impressive quality was his awesome brute strength. He liked to push people around, but he could be wild with his punches, and that cost him against Muhammad Ali. He was alot like Liston then. Both liked to intimidate their opponents, but you couldn't intimidate either one of them. With George, though, it was an act; he's always been a good guy.
It would be an action packed fight. Both had good, hard jabs, and didn't hesitate to open up and throw bombs. But Liston was a much better boxer. i don't beleive anyone could have beaten Liston in his prime, including Ali. I see Liston stopping Foreman in six or seven rounds."

This is quite interesting - not relevant to teh criteria of this thread, but anyway....

Heavyweight Fighter of Century as chosen by a five-member panel for The Associated Press in 1999:

1. Muhammad Ali, 56-5, 37 KO's; Career: 1960-81, 19 years active.
2. Joe Louis, 68-3, 54 KO's; Career: 1934-51, 14 years active.
3. Rocky Marciano, 49-0, 43 KO's; Career: 1947-55, 9 years active.
4. Jack Dempsey, 61-6-8, 50 KO's, 6 ND; Career: 1914-27, 11 years active.
5. Jack Johnson, 78-13-11, 49 KO's, 18 ND; Career: 1897-1938, 30 years active.
6 Larry Holmes, 67-6, 43 KO's; Career: 1973-99, 23 years active.
7. Sonny Liston, 50-4, 39 KO's; Career: 1953-70, 17 years active.
8. Joe Frazier, 32-4-1, 27 KO's; Career: 1965-81, 13 years active.
9. Sam Langford, 167-38-37, 117 KO's, 48 ND; Career: 1902-26, 25 years active.
10 Jersey Joe Walcott, 53-18-1, 33 KO's; Career: 1930-53, 20 years active.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

This is quite interesting - not relevant to teh criteria of this thread, but anyway....

Heavyweight Fighter of Century as chosen by a five-member panel for The Associated Press in 1999:

1. Muhammad Ali, 56-5, 37 KO's; Career: 1960-81, 19 years active.
2. Joe Louis, 68-3, 54 KO's; Career: 1934-51, 14 years active.
3. Rocky Marciano, 49-0, 43 KO's; Career: 1947-55, 9 years active.
4. Jack Dempsey, 61-6-8, 50 KO's, 6 ND; Career: 1914-27, 11 years active.
5. Jack Johnson, 78-13-11, 49 KO's, 18 ND; Career: 1897-1938, 30 years active.
6 Larry Holmes, 67-6, 43 KO's; Career: 1973-99, 23 years active.
7. Sonny Liston, 50-4, 39 KO's; Career: 1953-70, 17 years active.
8. Joe Frazier, 32-4-1, 27 KO's; Career: 1965-81, 13 years active.
9. Sam Langford, 167-38-37, 117 KO's, 48 ND; Career: 1902-26, 25 years active.
10 Jersey Joe Walcott, 53-18-1, 33 KO's; Career: 1930-53, 20 years active.

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The AP gets a lot of stuff wrong and not just in boxing, so forgive me for disagreeing with them but
#1 Joe Louis
#2 Rocky Marciano
#3 Ali

...Dempsey defended his title how many times? Jack Johnson I get, but Dempsey? #4?!?! Langford never even won the title and Walcott wasn't all that impressive as a champion either. Liston had a short reign at the top too.

Now plenty of people may disagree with me based on who fought who and eras and size, strength, speed, skill etc...but Louis and Marciano DOMINATED their eras...I reckon you can put Holmes in that fold as well but Louis was champ for a long time and his record of successful title defenses as heavyweight champion still stands. If you want to talk about fighter x vs fighter y then that's a different story and Ali is probably rated higher, but still Louis is up there.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by BIG H

This is quite interesting - not relevant to teh criteria of this thread, but anyway....

Heavyweight Fighter of Century as chosen by a five-member panel for The Associated Press in 1999:

1. Muhammad Ali, 56-5, 37 KO's; Career: 1960-81, 19 years active.
2. Joe Louis, 68-3, 54 KO's; Career: 1934-51, 14 years active.
3. Rocky Marciano, 49-0, 43 KO's; Career: 1947-55, 9 years active.
4. Jack Dempsey, 61-6-8, 50 KO's, 6 ND; Career: 1914-27, 11 years active.
5. Jack Johnson, 78-13-11, 49 KO's, 18 ND; Career: 1897-1938, 30 years active.
6 Larry Holmes, 67-6, 43 KO's; Career: 1973-99, 23 years active.
7. Sonny Liston, 50-4, 39 KO's; Career: 1953-70, 17 years active.
8. Joe Frazier, 32-4-1, 27 KO's; Career: 1965-81, 13 years active.
9. Sam Langford, 167-38-37, 117 KO's, 48 ND; Career: 1902-26, 25 years active.
10 Jersey Joe Walcott, 53-18-1, 33 KO's; Career: 1930-53, 20 years active.

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The AP gets a lot of stuff wrong and not just in boxing, so forgive me for disagreeing with them but
#1 Joe Louis
#2 Rocky Marciano
#3 Ali

...Dempsey defended his title how many times? Jack Johnson I get, but Dempsey? #4?!?! Langford never even won the title and Walcott wasn't all that impressive as a champion either. Liston had a short reign at the top too.

Now plenty of people may disagree with me based on who fought who and eras and size, strength, speed, skill etc...but Louis and Marciano DOMINATED their eras...I reckon you can put Holmes in that fold as well but Louis was champ for a long time and his record of successful title defenses as heavyweight champion still stands. If you want to talk about fighter x vs fighter y then that's a different story and Ali is probably rated higher, but still Louis is up there.

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I don't like the list at all!

Guys, come on :rolleyes:

It says ''Heavyweight FIGHTER of the Century' not CHAMPION.... Big difference ;)

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Guys, come on :rolleyes:

It says ''Heavyweight FIGHTER of the Century' not CHAMPION.... Big difference ;)

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OK, if that's what they are asking for it is hands down Joe Louis anyone else is a DISTANT second

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

:headscratch:Hmmmm....

Just found these (Opinions on Foreman Vs Liston):

Ernie Terrell
Chicago based promoter Ernie Terrell is a former WBA heavyweight champion.

"Oh boy, it would have been something to watch! We're talking about two very tough men, not just tough fighters, Liston was a very good boxer in his prime, which was the late-50's and early-60's. I sparred with him, but since I was much taller, and was a boxer, his jab, which was one of his best weopons, didn't affect me the way it did most other fighters. Physically, he could do more in the ring than Foreman.
It's a shame Foreman couldn't combine the power and speed of his youth with the improved defense and maturaity he shows today. Still, he was a very strong guy. Most of the men he knocked out he hurt first. Foreman had a great chin, but even greater determination. Getting up from those knockdowns and coming back to beat Ron Lyle proved what he was made of.
The fight would flow the same way Foreman-Lyle did. Both men would connect with big punches. But Liston was abetter all-round boxer, and he was certainly a better puncher than Lyle. By o means would it be an easy fight for Liston. But I see him coming on as Foreman weakens, and scoring a knockout around the 11th round."


Chuck Wepner
A heavyweight contender in the 70's, Chuck Wepener was stopped by both Liston and Foreman.

"I fought Liston in his last fight, and Foreman when he was on his way up, so I speak from experience when I say they were two of the hardest punchers ever. it would be hard to match two harder-hitting heavyweights. Even though I though Liston was at the end, I thought he was still a very good boxer. He took a good punch, and he had a lot of savvy. In his prime, he could do it all.
When he was younger, Foreman's most impressive quality was his awesome brute strength. He liked to push people around, but he could be wild with his punches, and that cost him against Muhammad Ali. He was alot like Liston then. Both liked to intimidate their opponents, but you couldn't intimidate either one of them. With George, though, it was an act; he's always been a good guy.
It would be an action packed fight. Both had good, hard jabs, and didn't hesitate to open up and throw bombs. But Liston was a much better boxer. i don't beleive anyone could have beaten Liston in his prime, including Ali. I see Liston stopping Foreman in six or seven rounds."

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Im most interested in Chucks view , and I will not hear of him being punch drunk.

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by ICB

Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.

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just based on what i see

you dont have to have the same opinion

IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk

ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa

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I can understand saying Ali is not the best HW of all time P4P but hard to argue him not being top 2 or 3....

6'3" gave him enough size to compete in any era...In fact he is larger then most heavyweights in eras prior.....He could take abuse beyond what most men could dream of...Down yes but never knocked out cold...Including against argueably the hardest p4p puncher ever in Foreman....First three time HW champion...He fought in an era where HW boxing was at its best and everyone had a different style but were the cream of the crop at that style.....His speed was amazing, he had credible power and was a master at making adjustments in the ring.......

Liston, Quarry, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, Chuvalo, Moore, Williams, Cooper, Terrell, Foster, Norton, Lyle....I mean those alone are a gauntlet that no other HW can claim even close to in talent as in terms of opposition....Shit the contenders were better then most of the champions we have had in HW history....

Maybe not #1 maybe so but dismissed with a "Naaaaaa"....I mean really this is Ali I don't understand how a case even has to be made for his status

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i dont doubt ali is in the top 5 but people seem to place him unconditionally at number one and scoff at the fact that it might not be the case

My overall view of that era is that it was no better or richer in tallent than any other its just there was no real standout heavyweight so the fights were close and Ali was around and his mouth did all the talking :)

some of the guys you mentioned in your list would be beaten by the klits in exactly the same way as most of the contenders do today

cooper lost loads of fights

ali defended against london who wouldnt be top 20 in britain today

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I was just giving names off the top of my head some like ones you mentioned are not ATG material but were damn though....Today how often do we see any fighter let alone a HW (As if there was enough HW talent to provide a quality list) fight so many big names?..........The fact that 85% of the guys of that era were so good and fact many such as Quarry, Shavers etc would have held a world title in most other eras even if briefly shows the quality of comp IMO...

I do agree 100% on the fact many people place Ali as #1 just because of the name...Many of those people are not true boxing entusiast and go by reputation alone...Personally many times I have stated on forums and in articles that Jack Johnson has a strong case for being the #1 considering how far past his time he was and fact he had size, power and speed to be able and compete in any era....I mean if you look at some old footage of him he was doing Ali type moves 50+ years before Ali ever laced gloves.....I just disagreed with the "Naaa" part because it came across as if Ali was a guy who was overrated in a Sven Ottke sort of way:-\

Huge bump but Lennox Lewis. I believe on his day in his prime, he could have beaten any Heavyweight in history.

I am a fan of boxing.....that being said it is easy to lean towards certain fighters as favorites and overrate them. However I have to defend the fact that Ali being # 1 does NOT bother me. It is my opinion that many people do hail him as the best based on name and reputation alone without even looking at the other options. IMO though I think that he is top 3 without a doubt. I also believe that he did fight in a better era of heayweights as stated earlier in this thread. For anyone who says that today's heavyweights are as good I ask you this.......how many fighters showed up to fight Ali looking like Kirk Johnson vs Klit.

AT HIS VERY VERY BEST Rocky Marciano would never ever get the Least bit tired and would actually on the contrary become stronger and stronger as the fight went on---do you know any fighters who were like that? Frazier tired, Ali tired, Lewis really tired, Tyson tired, Bowe and Holyfield turned to sluggish lumbering clinchers, Shavers couldnt keep his hands up--- etc... I think Larry Holmes woulda given Marciano the most trouble, if anybody could OUTLAST this guy. Who could outlast Marciano? He was a frikkin steeamroller, steamin over all the people, this guy threw 100+ punches per round, like a frikkin windmill. TELL ME WHO COULD STAND UP TO THAT???

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

AT HIS VERY VERY BEST Rocky Marciano would never ever get the Least bit tired and would actually on the contrary become stronger and stronger as the fight went on---do you know any fighters who were like that? Frazier tired, Ali tired, Lewis really tired, Tyson tired, Bowe and Holyfield turned to sluggish lumbering clinchers, Shavers couldnt keep his hands up--- etc... I think Larry Holmes woulda given Marciano the most trouble, if anybody could OUTLAST this guy. Who could outlast Marciano? He was a frikkin steeamroller, steamin over all the people, this guy threw 100+ punches per round, like a frikkin windmill. TELL ME WHO COULD STAND UP TO THAT???

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I reckon Sonny Liston would blast him inside of 5.

not a chance

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by ICB

Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.

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just based on what i see

you dont have to have the same opinion

IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk

ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa

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I can understand saying Ali is not the best HW of all time P4P but hard to argue him not being top 2 or 3....

6'3" gave him enough size to compete in any era...In fact he is larger then most heavyweights in eras prior.....He could take abuse beyond what most men could dream of...Down yes but never knocked out cold...Including against argueably the hardest p4p puncher ever in Foreman....First three time HW champion...He fought in an era where HW boxing was at its best and everyone had a different style but were the cream of the crop at that style.....His speed was amazing, he had credible power and was a master at making adjustments in the ring.......

Liston, Quarry, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, Chuvalo, Moore, Williams, Cooper, Terrell, Foster, Norton, Lyle....I mean those alone are a gauntlet that no other HW can claim even close to in talent as in terms of opposition....Shit the contenders were better then most of the champions we have had in HW history....

Maybe not #1 maybe so but dismissed with a "Naaaaaa"....I mean really this is Ali I don't understand how a case even has to be made for his status

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i dont doubt ali is in the top 5 but people seem to place him unconditionally at number one and scoff at the fact that it might not be the case

My overall view of that era is that it was no better or richer in tallent than any other its just there was no real standout heavyweight so the fights were close and Ali was around and his mouth did all the talking :)

some of the guys you mentioned in your list would be beaten by the klits in exactly the same way as most of the contenders do today

cooper lost loads of fights

ali defended against london who wouldnt be top 20 in britain today

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I was just giving names off the top of my head some like ones you mentioned are not ATG material but were damn though....Today how often do we see any fighter let alone a HW (As if there was enough HW talent to provide a quality list) fight so many big names?..........The fact that 85% of the guys of that era were so good and fact many such as Quarry, Shavers etc would have held a world title in most other eras even if briefly shows the quality of comp IMO...

I do agree 100% on the fact many people place Ali as #1 just because of the name...Many of those people are not true boxing entusiast and go by reputation alone...Personally many times I have stated on forums and in articles that Jack Johnson has a strong case for being the #1 considering how far past his time he was and fact he had size, power and speed to be able and compete in any era....I mean if you look at some old footage of him he was doing Ali type moves 50+ years before Ali ever laced gloves.....I just disagreed with the "Naaa" part because it came across as if Ali was a guy who was overrated in a Sven Ottke sort of way:-\

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you might be right, these fighters like Shavers or Quarry may well have been champs in any other era

im inclined to think their stock is much bigger than their tallent because of the era they fought in and the fact they fought ali and everything that was going on outside the ring

James J. “Gentleman Jim” Corbett

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Originally Posted by Ghost

James J. “Gentleman Jim” Corbett

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At 185 pounds I doubt it mate

Rocky Marciano out-smokes 'em all by crouching down below their range, and coming up from the floor with rib-shattering hooks and vein-bursting uppercuts under the armpits. NO GADDAM WAY IN HELL ANYBODY EVER BEATS THIS SONOFABITCH.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Rocky Marciano out-smokes 'em all by crouching down below their range, and coming up from the floor with rib-shattering hooks and vein-bursting uppercuts under the armpits. NO GADDAM WAY IN HELL ANYBODY EVER BEATS THIS SONOFABITCH.

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He was small cruiserweight. To think that he would beat someboidy like Vitali is crazy!

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Rocky Marciano out-smokes 'em all by crouching down below their range, and coming up from the floor with rib-shattering hooks and vein-bursting uppercuts under the armpits. NO GADDAM WAY IN HELL ANYBODY EVER BEATS THIS SONOFABITCH.

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He was small cruiserweight. To think that he would beat someboidy like Vitali is crazy!

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Could Rocky Marciano even reach Vitali Klitschko ? LOL he had very short arms aswell didn't he ? like 67 inches ?