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oh I get it ADAMGB. So the alltime great Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall :11fb8:have some kind of DY-NO-MIIIIITE!!!!! in their punches that floored Lummox for a 10 count, cold-cocked, out of this world KTFO, yet Smokin Joe, Big George, Earnie the Acorn just couldnt manage to land such hard shots against Ali, Holmes, etc... and thats why Frazier and Ali and Holmes and Lyle etc could keep getting up.
BUT OH, ALI WOULDNT HAVE GOTTEN UP, NOR HOLMES, NOR FRAZIER, HAD THAT ALLTIME GREAT PUNCHER OLIVER OR HASIM LANDED THOSE SHOTS.
:flush:
They would have been hurt by them... that's for sure. Maybe not knocked out cold... but you're talking about guys who's chins are ranked as the best of all time.
Jesus Christ, you're just banging on about the same things I addressed in my first post. Troll much?
Again, just because I am saying that he didn't have a glass jaw... it doesn't mean that I am saying that Lewis' chin was ever in the same realm as Ali's or Foreman's (who incidentally was dropped by Ali... a relatively light puncher... but as I KEEP SAYING - this is heavyweight boxing and under the right circumstances anybody can be dropped).
Lewis' jaw wasn't glass... it wasn't in the same realm as Ali's either... it was decent.
Why am I having to repeat the same points over and over to you? Is the concept of a middle ground existing between 'glass jawed' and 'granite chin' really such a complicated concept for you to understand?
If you can count to 3 you ought to understand what a 'middle' is?
Exactly what I was trying to say!!Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
How Holmes got up from that shot I will never know. Shavers did a terrible job of finishing him, becuase he was out on his feet and there was plenty of time left. As good as that punch was from Shavers, I think Rahman's was more devastating... (maybe ;))Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBHasim Rahman had pretty high KO precentage, and had some good performances. He beat a prime Corrie Sanders in a fantastic Heavyweight scrap, and was beating David Tua by a large margin until he got caught late on.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterJourneymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
But i disagree with BIG H and imp's comment, Larry Holmes took a right hand bomb. Flush on the chin by one of the hardest hitting Heavyweight's Earnie Shavers, and was up within 4 seconds.
I know i've repeated that comment a few times, but im a bit sick of reading that those two punches Lennox Lewis got KO'ed with would of KO'd any Heavyweight in history, the Oliver McCall one wasn't even that devastating.
And Riddick Bowe got smashed by 72 power punches by Andrew Golota in one round, and survived. There's plenty of Heavyweight's who were tougher than Lennox Lewis, but there's few who were as skilled as him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABZu5v2JPuE
I am not trying to compare Lewis as one of the great chins, but I still maintain nobody beats the 10 count after that Rahman punch. Just my opinion.
What a punch that was. I agree that even granite chinned fighters would have gone over from that. Might have got up before Lewis did but certainly would have been seriosuly hurt.
Except Oliver McCall and Wayne McCullogh. Nothing human could possibly get those two off their feet.
Larry Holmes himself admits that it was the way he hit the canvas that allowed him to get up.
he says he was asleep but the thud of hitting the canvas woke him up.
If Lewis came back now he would be top 5
Just a couple of things regarding this thread.
1. Lennox didn't have a glass jaw. I'm not willing to say that those 2 shots would have knocked out anyone but they would have put down most!
2. I think the point of this argument was regarding whether Lewis would have a chance of coming back and he was compared to Foreman which is completely unfair. They were 2 different fighters in their primes and would continue be so afterwards. I might be wrong but I think what the poster was trying to convey was not that Lewis had a bad chin but that Foreman's was legendary, thus Lewis could not achieve what Foreman did in the same manner. So to say well if Foreman could do it then so could Lewis is kinda lame because there are too many other variables that would come into play.
3. Slightly digressing here but to the poster who used Ali's KO of Foreman to illustrate his point about Foreman's jaw........I feel that is a bad example because that KO was just as much a result of extreme fatigue than Ali's power which someone referred to as "light..."
No... Foreman had an amazing chin... I was not trying to make any point about it... my point was that under the right circumstances any heavyweight can be dropped by any other heavy weight.
You missed my point, other than that pretty good post but you need to learn the definition of 'relatively' because Ali's power was light relative to some of the guys he fought... not just 'light'.
Okay fair enough on the first part which is why I preceded the statement with "I might be wrong". But in regards to Ali being relatively light puncher that is immaterial to MY point because I was saying that when he KOed Foreman that it had just as much to do with fatigue than with Ali's punches. I wasn't criticizing the assessment that Ali's punches were relatively light or at least that wasn't my intention. I was trying to illustrate that that example can't be used to compare chins which was the road this thread as a whole was starting to head down.
ADAMgb, WTF? cOUNT TO 3? WTF? ok, READY? 1.......2.......4!!! ;D
I suggest no one takes notice of this troll who types like a blind man who's sniffed a load of glue.
Lennox beat up everyone in his time and avenged all losses. If he did comeback (which he wont!) his heart wont be in it.
I would rather praise the klitsko brothers. They keep themselves in superb shape and they are only fighting what is available. Yes they are robotic and vlad should have have pressed the action an ko haye but thats not him.. There are no more great american heavyweight fighters anymore.
They are all playing nfl or basketball.. Audley and david price is the uk only hope..my moneys on audley.
lennox comming back at 45 will never happen but for argument sake he could probbaly still beat a good chunk of the hw div still but a prime lewis would clean it and give the klitchko bros a run for their money
Lennox has been retired for almost 10 years. I wouldn't pick him against anyone in the top 15, let alone either of the Klitschkos.
Well Lennox would steal Manny Stewart back. And I'm sure since he retired with the title he'd be the Undisputed Emetrius super duper Unretirey Champion and become instant Undisputed Champ since he never lost it and all the Klits titles would turn into cardboard until they defeat him sending off a chain reaction that changes the universe with spectacular lights and a ghost giving a speech about boxing in the arena as he bestows the powers of Heavyweight dominance on the Klits before disappearing and the credits rolling.
But just in case that didn't happen, Lennox would take Stewart back from Wladimir, so that would throw off him a bit.
Rather he was or wasn't, Lewis sure as hell trained for him like he was a journeyman.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HLaughable innit. A 34-2 journeymanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterJourneymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
In a word no;)
So let me get this right - Hasim Rhaman, the former undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, who has a 50-7 win/loss record is a journeyman?
Ridiculous.
How do we class guys like Marion Wilson, Ross Puritty, Rob Calloway, Michael Sprott, etc then? Are they just wasting everyones time contributing to the sport? They serve no purpose?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Lewis looked doughy and plodding against Rahman in the first fight.
Not quite so much in the second.
Lennox may keep himself in condition but he is not in any fighting condition and has been out of the ring far too long to even consider coming back. Wlad and Vitali are scraping the barrel to look for opponents, even Chisroa and Fury, which at best a good domestic matchup. If Lennox was to come back someone would have to put up a lot of money and I do not see that happening, even if he did Lewis would lose, you cannot challenge father time.
I was slowly pulling my hair out until your post. Finally some real insight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Lewis usually had a reliable chin against decent punchers. There were some anomalies but at Heavyweight shit happens.
I noticed that Lewis looked a bit dejected Saturday night. I read into it as if Lennox was a wee bit resentful of Haye's sudden infamy and that maybe Lennox had a spark of a desire to show someone what he could still do to a man like Haye ;D
Mike Tyson looked in good shape when he announced Lewis and Foreman. ;)
Put aside all the critique and praise 45 is a long way from 36, 38 or even 39 when you have been used to living large. Lewis is talented but he's into the icing on the cake. I say no on those conditions only. I doubt he's worked out at all.
Fighters that come back successfully (generally) tend to either be punchers, or people who have kept on training while they have been away.
Lewis' talent was in his boxer/puncher capacity, it depended quite a lot on timing and reflexes. He was never a regular one-punch kayo artist against elite fighters.
The first thing to erode with age and inactivity is timing and reflexes, so If Lewis were to come back we would see a more 'later Muhammad Ali' style of fight from him ...... less energy, use of ring savvy and experience, counterpunching etc. It would not be the same Lennox Lewis.
The 'later Tyson' was a one-punch hitter with suspect stamina and little interest in actually winning ......... it was not the same Tyson. The 'later George Foreman' was actually a cagey and crafty counterpuncher who just needed one shot. Early George was an offensive wrecking machine. It wasnt the same Foreman.
Not many people have ever come back as the same fighter they were before.
So, the question is would an imaginary 'later style Lewis' stand a chance if he made a comeback??
1. No, because he would not be the undisputed and dominant heavyweight champion of the world.
2. Yes, because he would earn lots of money and be competitive for a while against the top contenders and possibly get a title shot. Thats success in most people's books!