Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
erics44
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.
perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment
Not necessarily either, logically, if you take away the K-Bros, and who have you really got from the rest of the division that's going to provide better fights and/or entertainment. The Klitschko Bros are over criticized, under-appreciated, and will be sorely missed by boxing and the HW division when they're gone.
thats not really logical, its valid opinion but one i disagree with
My opinion is if you take away the klit bros then the fighters below would then become the top HWs and would be more evenly matched, and there is a chance that an agressive fighter emerges as the top dog
I disagree with your last sentence also, their skill as the best HWs around is widely recognised, Vitali perhaps is over critisized Wlad isnt, he fights over cautious and deserves to be critisized for it, and the HW situation is the most dull it has been in history and that is at large portion due to wlad's style, so the people who dont appreciate this are well within their rights
have you honestly enjoyed a HW title fight involving wlad in the last 5 years?
Yes I have enjoyed some of Wlad's fights, and look Eric, I don't want to debate this topic with you, but if you think the HW division is dull now, don't take my word for it, just wait until the K-bros are gone. As for this being the dullest era in HW history, that just lets me know, that you know fuck all about HW boxing history.
I hope this helps.
by the way, which fight have you enjoyed?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
I would name a sleeping pill after Haye. I watched the fight four times and I fell asleep three times after the fourth round. I got smart and watched standing up the fourth time and it wasn't a charm either.
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Hey Erics44, you do agree, right that Haye's fights at heavyweight haven't been entertaining (to the casual fan) either. Three of his 5 fights weren't entertaining at all. He was a much more entertaining cruiserweight. So, given that we can both agree Haye isn't an entertaining heavyweight, what you are saying in essence is that you'd rather see Fury, Arreola, Adamek, Chambers, and Povetkin fight it out?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Hey Erics44, you do agree, right that Haye's fights at heavyweight haven't been entertaining (to the casual fan) either. Three of his 5 fights weren't entertaining at all. He was a much more entertaining cruiserweight. So, given that we can both agree Haye isn't an entertaining heavyweight, what you are saying in essence is that you'd rather see Fury, Arreola, Adamek, Chambers, and Povetkin fight it out?
2 out of 5 is a lot bigger proportion than none out of 10 (or whatever wlad has had in the last 5 years)
plus i would expect haye v all of those fighters you mention to be much more even and more likely more exciting and would hold a lot more anticipation as a HW title fight than wlad v
also one of hayes 5 fights at HW was against wlad and as much as you hate haye you cant blame the boringness solely on haye as it was type for wlad
what i am saying while there are klits the HW title fights will be boring and frustrating (despite more quality), when the klits go there is a chance we will get a HW division back (even if it doesnt have anywhere near the tallent the klits have)
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I love the people bailing out of the Haye bandwagon "I was never REALLY a fan of his" ....rrrright. That's cool, that's ok, I don't mind you rats fleeing that sinking ship, I told you Haye was a phony from day 1!
I do mind when people assume the heavyweight division would be better off without the Klitschko's when right now they are the only fighters in that division worth watching. Say what you will about Wlad he's extremely skilled and 100% dedicated to the sport, that's not opinion that's FACT!
Was a fan of his, am still a fan of his. Obviously how much I think of him has to go down after how the fight turned out... but that's OK isn't it? You can think a little less of somebody without having to completely dislike them... right? ???
'Bailing on the Haye band wagon'... this isn't another case of you reading things the way you want to read them and going off on one against a none existent argument or opinion again is it Lyle?
I'll judge him better or more harshly depending on how much he can redeem himself... as with all fighters (Wlad is no stranger to falling short and improving himself, is he?)
You can't really knock Wlad, I don't dislike the guy. He's fought everybody available, he shows up in shape no matter who he's fighting and he behaves like a professional. He's just fucking boring... that is also a fact. How much importance you place on that fact is up to you.
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
He still has a way to go before he loses the honor of being the poster boy for the 'fat heavyweight contender' stereotype... ;)
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Hey Erics44, you do agree, right that Haye's fights at heavyweight haven't been entertaining (to the casual fan) either. Three of his 5 fights weren't entertaining at all. He was a much more entertaining cruiserweight. So, given that we can both agree Haye isn't an entertaining heavyweight, what you are saying in essence is that you'd rather see Fury, Arreola, Adamek, Chambers, and Povetkin fight it out?
This seems to fly right over Erics' head, the problem is, he's still too busy swinging on Haye's nuts to notice.
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Hey Erics44, you do agree, right that Haye's fights at heavyweight haven't been entertaining (to the casual fan) either. Three of his 5 fights weren't entertaining at all. He was a much more entertaining cruiserweight. So, given that we can both agree Haye isn't an entertaining heavyweight, what you are saying in essence is that you'd rather see Fury, Arreola, Adamek, Chambers, and Povetkin fight it out?
This seems to fly right over Erics' head, the problem is, he's still too busy swinging on Haye's nuts to notice.
try and read all the posts dude, i have addressed the comment
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Originally Posted by
Erics44
2 out of 5 is a lot bigger proportion than none out of 10 (or whatever wlad has had in the last 5 years)
i also asked you a question which you seem to have avoided
which wlad fight have you enjoyed in the last 5 years?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Erics44, 3/5 Haye heavyweight fights were rather boring regardless of who he was fighting. It was his fault as much as Valuev's or Wlad's. He wasn't boring against Enzo Mac-why do you think? He was a much more exciting cruiserweight. The truth is though that once he really stepped up his competition, he lost. Wlad fights to his advantages, you can't blame him for that, everyone does. <br />
Also, Erics44, you should check out the Chagaev v. Povetkin fight on August 27th. It's for a belt and they are both top ten heavyweights. Also, Adamek v. Haye potentially will be more entertaining because Adamek has loads more guts than Haye. You don't like the Wlad, he's only one fighter, watch the rest of the division.<br /><br />
paragraph 1, i agree he has been a more exciting cruiser than heavy, but my point again isnt about haye, it is that while the klits are around the HW championship fights will be dull
paragraph 2, i totally agree, and wouldnt it be better if there were no klits and these fights were for the championship?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Booze, arreola is now at 235 in his last three fights. He appears rededicated to the craft.
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Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
Without Klit brothers this era would truly suck. How could it be entertaining whenever all the guys besides the Brothers, Adamek, and Hayes are out-of-shape or 50 year old shot up fighters. <br />
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Truly someone name 5 guys under 40 that aren't fat as fuck and that truly come to fight? And yes, Areolla is a fat fuck. I'll give you Lyakovich I guess.<br />
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<br />
How can anyone claim to be a professional boxer, yet come in 60-80 pounds overweight? Baffles me. Not only that, but we are talking about James TOney (who actually had skill), we are talking about fat fucks without skill.
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<br />
He may weigh 235...........in his bra.
Seriously, I saw clips of his last fight. He is still a fat-fuck. I bet whenever he tells people he is a professional fighter they do not believe him. Speaking of that, if he is 235 and that fatty........is he 4' 3?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Erics44
2 out of 5 is a lot bigger proportion than none out of 10 (or whatever wlad has had in the last 5 years)
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i also asked you a question which you seem to have avoided
which wlad fight have you enjoyed in the last 5 years?
I'm not avoiding anything, it's just pointless to discuss this with you.
But for what it's worth, I was entertained by Wlad's fights vs: Chris Byrd II, Calvin Brock, Ray Austin, Lamon Brewster II, and Sam Peter II, i'm not saying they were great fights, but I enjoyed them, and I thought a few of the KO's were exciting as well.
So what now Erics, more of your brainless puerile drivel?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I wouldn't waste my time arguing with erics44 it simply doesn't compute in his warped little nationalistic ginger brain that people may actually enjoy watching Klitschko (Wlad or Vitali) fight. I thought Wlad vs Tony Thompson was not only entertaining but competitive.
And for anyone looking for "in shape" heavyweights the following fighters have always been in good shape for their fights: Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Boytsov, Chagaev, Wilder (perhaps TOO skinny), Kubrat Pulev, Evander Holyfield (old, but still in great shape), Jonathan Banks, Seth Mitchell. Those guys never show up fat.
What Erics mainly does is blither nonsense.
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Erics44
2 out of 5 is a lot bigger proportion than none out of 10 (or whatever wlad has had in the last 5 years)
Quote:
i also asked you a question which you seem to have avoided
which wlad fight have you enjoyed in the last 5 years?
I'm not avoiding anything, it's just pointless to discuss this with you.
But for what it's worth, I was entertained by Wlad's fights vs: Chris Byrd II, Calvin Brock, Ray Austin, Lamon Brewster II, and Sam Peter II, i'm not saying they were great fights, but I enjoyed them, and I thought a few of the KO's were exciting as well.
So what now Erics, more of your brainless puerile drivel?
you said i was avoiding when i proved i wasnt, so i said you was avoiding, just giving you back what you gave me
you enjoyed the KO or you enjoyed the fight?
and you keep saying you dont want to discuss it with me but it was you who started the conversation with me
I'm happy to continue making you look a cunt if you want?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I wouldn't waste my time arguing with erics44 it simply doesn't compute in his warped little nationalistic ginger brain that people may actually enjoy watching Klitschko (Wlad or Vitali) fight. I thought Wlad vs Tony Thompson was not only entertaining but competitive.
And for anyone looking for "in shape" heavyweights the following fighters have always been in good shape for their fights: Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Boytsov, Chagaev, Wilder (perhaps TOO skinny), Kubrat Pulev, Evander Holyfield (old, but still in great shape), Jonathan Banks, Seth Mitchell. Those guys never show up fat.
wlad v thompson? you honestly enjoyed that fight? I have to say even in your wlad blinkered world i dont believe that
and i never said that no-one enjoys wlads fights you are reading things that arent there, I know for a fact that thousands of eastern europeans seem to enjoy a wlad fight night
I am saying that the vast majority of neutral fans would have enjoyed the HW division a lot more when all the dominant champs back to sonny liston were at the top and that until the Klits retire we will not have an exciting division that compares to those times
its not that hard to understand is it?
its not hard to understand, its a point of view
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I wouldn't waste my time arguing with erics44 it simply doesn't compute in his warped little nationalistic ginger brain that people may actually enjoy watching Klitschko (Wlad or Vitali) fight. I thought Wlad vs Tony Thompson was not only entertaining but competitive.
And for anyone looking for "in shape" heavyweights the following fighters have always been in good shape for their fights: Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Boytsov, Chagaev, Wilder (perhaps TOO skinny), Kubrat Pulev, Evander Holyfield (old, but still in great shape), Jonathan Banks, Seth Mitchell. Those guys never show up fat.
Lyle I laughed when I read your list! Maybe true but sad. ;)
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Erics44
2 out of 5 is a lot bigger proportion than none out of 10 (or whatever wlad has had in the last 5 years)
Quote:
i also asked you a question which you seem to have avoided
which wlad fight have you enjoyed in the last 5 years?
I'm not avoiding anything, it's just pointless to discuss this with you.
But for what it's worth, I was entertained by Wlad's fights vs: Chris Byrd II, Calvin Brock, Ray Austin, Lamon Brewster II, and Sam Peter II, i'm not saying they were great fights, but I enjoyed them, and I thought a few of the KO's were exciting as well.
So what now Erics, more of your brainless puerile drivel?
you said i was avoiding when i proved i wasnt, so i said you was avoiding, just giving you back what you gave me
you enjoyed the KO or you enjoyed the fight?
and you keep saying you dont want to discuss it with me but it was you who started the conversation with me
I'm happy to continue making you look a cunt if you want?
Alright, that's what I figured, just more brainless puerile drivel, back on permanent ignore for you.
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
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Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
Wrong: not head checked
Wrong: haye is shit and I don't hate
Right: haye is crap in general by beating weak oppositsion.
Right: wlad is negative
Right: wlad toyed with haye
Right: wlad appeals to the uk market.
And finally u r wrong too.
Know ur role and quote me
Are you on drugs?
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Booze, nah, honestly, Arreola has shown up trim in his last say 3 fights, but of course, that is a far cry from saying he can beat a Klit.
Erics44, I thought Arreola versus Vitali wasn't a bad fight, even tho vitali dominated, and I thought, Wlad versus Sam Peters 2 was fun to watch.
But, you should check out the Vitali versus Adamek fight and the Chagaev versus Povetkin fights. To be honest, the blue print is out on how to beat Wlad, but it takes someone who trusts their chin more than Haye did and is willing to take risks. We saw Wlad beat a few times, you just need to take a risk to get inside his reach, and you need a chin to do that.
Wlad is a champ for a reason-he's damn good. He'll win until someone better comes along. So far, no one has, so the belts are his. That's how it should be.
yep vitali v areola was alright, vitali takes more risks than wlad and generally is in better fights
the fight against solis could have been decent had it gone a bit further
I dont think wlad v peter 2 was fun to watch, it was as frustrating as all wlads fights, yes the end was alright but that was it, he could have KOed him 5 rounds earlier but stayed behind the jab
and I think wlad is a different fighter now than when he lost, i dont think that blue print is there anymore, i think it will take a lot more to beat him now
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
One more thing, Erics44, what are some non-Kiltschko fights you've really liked at heavyweight in the last couple years.
Oh one more fight on the horizon for you to check out- chambers v. Thompson.
The fights that havent involved the Klits cant be compare because they arent for the championship, to be a good fight doesnt have to be for the world title but theres nothing like the heavyweight world title fight in boxing
but just off the top of my head i enjoyed areolas last more than any of wlads in recent memory
Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Erics44
2 out of 5 is a lot bigger proportion than none out of 10 (or whatever wlad has had in the last 5 years)
Quote:
i also asked you a question which you seem to have avoided
which wlad fight have you enjoyed in the last 5 years?
I'm not avoiding anything, it's just pointless to discuss this with you.
But for what it's worth, I was entertained by Wlad's fights vs: Chris Byrd II, Calvin Brock, Ray Austin, Lamon Brewster II, and Sam Peter II, i'm not saying they were great fights, but I enjoyed them, and I thought a few of the KO's were exciting as well.
So what now Erics, more of your brainless puerile drivel?
you said i was avoiding when i proved i wasnt, so i said you was avoiding, just giving you back what you gave me
you enjoyed the KO or you enjoyed the fight?
and you keep saying you dont want to discuss it with me but it was you who started the conversation with me
I'm happy to continue making you look a cunt if you want?
Alright, that's what I figured, just more brainless puerile drivel, back on permanent ignore for you.
look man, i cant have a conversation with you, as soon as you disagree with anything anyone says or anyone disagrees with you you get all upset and start throwing round abuse
I am having a conversation with rantcatrat now on this thread and we both obviously have different opinions but noone is upset or abusing anyone
this is only the internet fella, just relax
