Printable View
There are racist insults... which are no different to any other insults... And then there is genuine ignorance, which can actually more hurtfull. Especially when it is unwavering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The term 'half cast' IS actually offensive Mark. Just the same as 'coloured'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesExactly, if someone called me a 'motherfucking white cunt', the white part would be the least of my worries. It is the other words that have more of an impact. Though after years on here, it would probably all just wash over me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Almaybe the difference is if someone called me something to do with my colour and race i couldnt give a shiny shite. who the fuck cares.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
so please tell me if black people cant be called black , then what do we call them ?
and let me say im not being funny , i really dont know how to call them.
like missy said we refer to a black boxer as the guy in the blue shorts or wotever.
It's racist, but only a shallow skinned girl gets upset over it.
Although most of us haven't had to grow up suffering from race hate and being picked on because of the colour of our skin. So I can understand why it is a sensitive subject.
I think what he said was racist, but I don't think he is a racist, if that makes sense.
yes but it wasn't at one point then it was. when people hear it from older generations and use it don't blame themQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusThere are racist insults... which are no different to any other insults... And then there is genuine ignorance, which can actually more hurtfull. Especially when it is unwavering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The term 'half cast' IS actually offensive Mark. Just the same as 'coloured'.
Race is socially constructed and we are all the same. Societies define and classify people in racial categories depending on their history and how they have handled immigration coming into their country. Therefore words and meaning change over 100 years ago Irish faced racism, then Jewish, then Caribbean, Indian etc So i would not get too upset about terminology changing.
Blame who? You?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKOyes but it wasn't at one point then it was. when people hear it from older generations and use it don't blame themQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusThere are racist insults... which are no different to any other insults... And then there is genuine ignorance, which can actually more hurtfull. Especially when it is unwavering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The term 'half cast' IS actually offensive Mark. Just the same as 'coloured'.
Are you stupid??
Of course it's always been offensive. No one has ever liked being called coloured or half cast and if they did it's because they were stupid.
not true. It's evolved. Black, no coloured, no black, no african-this/that and the other.
You can't expect everyone you encounter to know your preferred preference.
well I just spoke to a London colleague who is early 50s from Jamaica and lived last 35 years south london. In her book it was acceptable to use till mid 90s and was the norm term - she doesn't even really find it offensive now but knows many of her family now do. See what I mean different interperations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
She's not stupid so I'm obviously stupid then - think we best lock this thread to be honest.
The thing with half cast is that once again it is correct. You have a black father and a white mother and then you have a child that is a mixture of those genetic types. To be called half whatever is just a definition of how one appears. They are not James Toney black and they are not Hitler white, they are quite definitely something inbetween and I see nothing negative in being able to describe someone's appearance.
Half cast might have negative connotations because of history, but you would do just as well to have another word, perhaps 'halfcolour' or the more politically correct 'people of half colour'. Well, that just sounds stupid, just call them half casts and educate society to become more tolerant of ethnic diversity which in many ways the UK is. Certainly much more so than somewhere like Korea.
I think the term 'mongrel' is far more offensive for a mixed race child than 'half cast', but just simply saying mixed race child is probably more neutral with less historical connotations, but it is still essentially the same thing just tarted up in a different way.
I was just gonna post exactly what she said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKOwell I just spoke to a London colleague who is early 50s from Jamaica and lived last 35 years south london. In her book it was acceptable to use till mid 90s and was the norm term - she doesn't even really find it offensive now but knows many of her family now do. See what I mean different interperations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
She's not stupid so I'm obviously stupid then - think we best lock this thread to be honest.
I'm 35 and when growing up everyone said half-cast, including black/mixed raced people. I can remember black people on TV saying it.
Obviously younger people have grown-up knowing it as an offensive term. But it was certainly the norm in the 80s.
I think it's because fat ginger people didn't have to sit at the back of the bus 70 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missybut if he is black how does it make it worse than fat bastard, ginger bastard. It's a descriptive word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
To be honest, you kinda Barking up the wrong tree... You have to know the origins of the term 'Half-Cast' to understand why it is offensive... Mongrel isn't even that offensive. Just stupid. We are all 'mongrel' in one way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Fuck whatever Missy and Mark are talkin about, the younger generation have the right idea. Ignorance should never be accepted.
So show me the history of the term 'half cast'. It is a term with exactly the same meaning as 'mixed race'. Maybe 100 years later 'mixed race' will be called out as being wrong. Mongrel is crude and revolting as it suggests dog like characteristics. It suggests less than human which 'half cast' never does. In that way half cast is more endearing and in all honesty is not particularly offensive anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusTo be honest, you kinda Barking up the wrong tree... You have to know the origins of the term 'Half-Cast' to understand why it is offensive... Mongrel isn't even that offensive. Just stupid. We are all 'mongrel' in one way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Fuck whatever Missy and Mark are talkin about, the younger generation have the right idea. Ignorance should never be accepted.
Lol, how would you know, your not mixed race :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by milesSo show me the history of the term 'half cast'. It is a term with exactly the same meaning as 'mixed race'. Maybe 100 years later 'mixed race' will be called out as being wrong. Mongrel is crude and revolting as it suggests dog like characteristics. It suggests less than human which 'half cast' never does. In that way half cast is more endearing and in all honesty is not particularly offensive anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusTo be honest, you kinda Barking up the wrong tree... You have to know the origins of the term 'Half-Cast' to understand why it is offensive... Mongrel isn't even that offensive. Just stupid. We are all 'mongrel' in one way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Fuck whatever Missy and Mark are talkin about, the younger generation have the right idea. Ignorance should never be accepted.
It's true though,maybe in a hundred years some dude will object to being called mixed race... I'm pretty sure most of those poor yank already do... Including Barrack Obama. But that is a preference of identity. You need to understand that the term half cast is insulting in its meaning and its social/ historical relevance, not in a simple discriptive sense. And like i said, mongrel can apply to everyone. Half cast is far more excluding.
I honestly didnt know the term coloured was offensive until a few years back when Jazmerkin picked me up on it in a conversation. Where is he anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusThere are racist insults... which are no different to any other insults... And then there is genuine ignorance, which can actually more hurtfull. Especially when it is unwavering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The term 'half cast' IS actually offensive Mark. Just the same as 'coloured'.
He is needed here right in this post. Militant Souf London Guy :confused:
:-X wtf can we say :confused: Help..
thats the point Andre - people DON'T know and they get shit for it
Yes I know thats the point! Your Father was a hamster and your mother smelt of elderberries now go away before I taunt you a second timema..:lickish:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
:)
I don't see what the problem is calling Manny Pacquiao a philip but I know that i shouldn't and so i won't but too many people just refuse to oblige and it causes a clash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
I no Spanish, I Espanol! >:(
(just to plant a seed)
In all fairness though Mark, I think i would of either laughed or lost my rag a bit with this bird bangin on about Urban Music. Okay, Black Music is a touch strong because its not exclusively Black Music and of course 'Urban' could be seen as a soft substitute for 'black' but I don't personally see it that way. Music gets categorised and re defined all the time, no matter how radical music may get, it will always be subject to a conservative need to have to lable everything.
It would suck though if what you made was Funk but someone tried to tell you it was Disco, ay?
I was somewhat taken aback with that incident I can tell you. I held my tongue as it could have caused further problems (its government here and escalation of biblical proportion is the norm....). I don't let things worry me as a rule but I was fucking annoyed after that . And now am thinking about it am fucking annoyed again !!!
She obviously took it as an insult - but when I've downloaded the odd tune of that type its come up automaticaly as 'Urban' in the genre on media player ?!?!? So like WTF.
You can't win......:rolleyes:
I actually find it a bit odd when on the radio they might describe a station as black music. I thinks it's too exclusive and quite demeaning. What exactly is black music?
That's national radio saying that.
I also find the MOBO awards weird, it's a really celebrated award, but only for music of black origin. I can't help but think that music of white origin award would be considered racist.
I also think that black people are now the least racially abused. Muslims and so on get it worse from all angles. Far more stereotyping.
This is correct, however, people have seen the error of their ways and the blacks can sit where they like, we now make the gingers sit at the back of the bus.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoI think it's because fat ginger people didn't have to sit at the back of the bus 70 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missybut if he is black how does it make it worse than fat bastard, ginger bastard. It's a descriptive word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I'm a connoisseur and instigator of black humor are our days numbered?
Well said James. I have never got the MOBO's eithers and people would find it weird to have an award celebrating only 'white' music.
Nonsense really.
yes well said James - couldn't rep you as must have done so yesterday so I need to 'spread it around'....
Say what you want, but multiculturalism has failed imo. EVen some harvard professor agrees on that.
Who, Professor Green?;D
No seriously,
I'm not sure what to think of the MOBO's either... I mean, it's good that someone decided to celebrate and give credence to music that is (was) less coveted (in Britain) and I guess that had to call it something but... I dunno, yeah just seems like maybe these genres have a voice now. I mean what cerain artis wining The Mercury Prize, Brit Awards & Ivor Novello Awards...
The thing about race issues in the U.S. is the lack of honest two-way dialogue. Discrimination is still largely a one way street whether it is passive or blatant but racism is very much a two way highway. White folks want to avoid the conversation all together due to simple fatigue, the fear of the PC police labeling any small thing they say as racist or some absurd guilt over actions they are removed from by multiple generations. Minorities don't want to have the honest conversation b/c they have to admit a certain level of hypocrisy and blame as well as the surrendering of a victim status used by tools like Sharpton. I don't care what type of community you look at (white, black, latin etc) more often then not the problems in that community are caused internally and the ultimate solution will have to be so as well.
Racism is a very much a two-way street in the U.S. It really goes both ways.
I guess I agree that racism is getting a bit boring, but the problem hasn't been solved. Do people care when a black guy is dating a white woman anymore or vice versa? No, at least not the younger generations. So, it's improving. However, it's just not as integrated as I would like it to be. Work still needs to be done because people still see by color lines unfortunately. In the fly-by areas of the country things aren't what you would hope them to be to this day. Dropping the n-bomb and "I didn't mean to jew you" are common place in some areas of the U.S. Same goes for cr*cker in hood areas etc. In the U.S., the number of hate crimes and the groups they are directed at remain steady with the majority of racial hate crimes directed at blacks (70% of racial hate crimes were against blacks) and the majority of religous hate crimes directed at jews (70% of religious hate incidents were directed at jews). I strongly believe there is a strong correlation with poverty and racism.
I gotta call BS on the hate-crime stats. Legally speaking there is no such thing as a hate-crime when the victim is white. Kind of hard to give reasonable statistics when the largest portion of the population is omitted.
Crimes against whites were included in th is recent study. There were 679 anti-white incidents. US Hate Crimes Continue At Steady Pace, FBI Says - San Diego News Story - KGTV San DiegoQuote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Racism rows really bore the fuck out of me too, especially because it simply isn't and actually in many case cannot even be, true racism.
Real racism is the brutal subjugation and oppression of one race by another. Those of the subjugated race are deemed inferior, have limited rights, unequal opportunities might suffer active persecution and are treated as a second class, on account of their skin colour.
How is that even possible in the case of Tiger Woods and his caddy?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Tiger Woods probably earn ten times more a year at least than his former caddy? Doesn't he exert, maybe 100 times more influence worldwide and enjoy a status far above and beyond what this caddy could ever hope to achieve?
How therefore can this caddy act in a racist way towards to him when all the power, money, influence and prestige belong to Tiger? :confused:
I'm guessing he called Tiger a black arsehole because firstly, he is an asshole, and secondly his skin colour, being black, is the single most identifiable unique aspect to his appearence in relation to other golfers, who are almost exclusively white.
Were he calling John Daley an arsehole, I imagine he would have said fat arsehole Jack Nicklaus would probably be described as an old bastard etc. I doubt people would have suggested he had sinister intentions towards the overweight and the elderly.
It annoys me.
All "races" are protected under the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratCrimes against whites were included in th is recent study. There were 679 anti-white incidents. US Hate Crimes Continue At Steady Pace, FBI Says - San Diego News Story - KGTV San DiegoQuote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
I know you are probably sick of hearing it but Sepp Blatter demonstrates how people perceive the problem, that it is not a problem, can be forgotten and forgiven with a hand shake. Suarez has been charged and he has admitted calling him names that Evra’s colleague already called him, which is his defence. So from the sounds of things he will should be found guilty too.
I actually agree with Blatter. I'd far rather another player called me a white bastard than the fans chanted I was a pedo or even fat or ginger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
You would say that as you probably never faced racism before, look at your own example of the caddie and Tiger, no matter how successful Tiger is, the caddie things he is better/superior than him just because he is white.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI actually agree with Blatter. I'd far rather another player called me a white bastard than the fans chanted I was a pedo or even fat or ginger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Huh? How did you conclude that? Black people are incapable of being assholes is what you are saying then? The only way a white person could dislike a black man is because he is black? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou would say that as you probably never faced racism before, look at your own example of the caddie and Tiger, no matter how successful Tiger is, the caddie things he is better/superior than him just because he is white.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI actually agree with Blatter. I'd far rather another player called me a white bastard than the fans chanted I was a pedo or even fat or ginger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Out of interest Master, can you explain to me why it is worse?
I mean say 5 people go to school. All are bullied. One is black. One is fat. One is ugly. One is gigner. (hang on I guess that means two are ugly now) One is gay.
They are all disliked by certain people at school as a direct result of these characteristics.
According to you, the black guy suffers a far worse time, his ordeal is more hurtful and severe because it is the colour of his skin they dn't like, rather than the amount of skin (fat boy), the hair growing out of the skin (ginger kid) the face that is coated in white skin (ugly boy) etc.
It seems to me that when it comes to name calling I would rather be disliked by someone for somwthing generic and non personal like my race, than something that is part of me directly, ugliness, sexuality, ginger hair, fat etc.
If the real racist element doesnt exist (no subjugation, denial of rights, having to hold an inferior status within your society) then it's just name calling.
I would argue that women in Saudi Arabia are treated far worse than black footballers or golfers in the UK or US. That's real sexism, the denial of rights. On the other hand David Cameron telling a female MP to 'Calm down dear' for example is not real sexism, as he's not subjugating or denying her any rights. She is equal in the eyes of British society.
I just hate that the trivial gets included within the serious.
The difference between saying you fat bastard or you black bastard is the historical context. I understand both are hurtful and maybe have the same point from the speaker but when you take into consideration the historical prejudice black people have endured in western countries, it has a different connotation. Really when you take into consideration the effect that race/religion has played in our society historically, referring to anyone by the color of their skin or their religious is different than their phsyical appearance. If a white guy said you "muslim bastard" to a practicing muslim, it's just different than saying you fat bastard even if the white guy didn't mean anything by it. Society places emphasis on the racial/religous differences betwee all of us for better or worse. Double standards are wrong though.
If he simply thought he was an ass hole he would have just called him that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboHuh? How did you conclude that? Black people are incapable of being assholes is what you are saying then? The only way a white person could dislike a black man is because he is black? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou would say that as you probably never faced racism before, look at your own example of the caddie and Tiger, no matter how successful Tiger is, the caddie things he is better/superior than him just because he is white.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI actually agree with Blatter. I'd far rather another player called me a white bastard than the fans chanted I was a pedo or even fat or ginger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
True it works both ways, but some people do not even recognize one way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat