Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
miles
Well, on the whole I think a lot of Pac fans actually like me and respect my stance on a number of issues. And when it comes to the Philippines, I have friends from that part of the world and nobody calls me a serious hater. Though huggers on here probably would. They are just plain odd though.
Pac has fought decent opponents, though in terms of styles has been matched up and now when face to face with Marquez again it was all shown to be illusion. It has been shown that it wasn't hating. Pac hasn't really improved at all. He has just bulked up and kept some snazzy power.
Those who said it was smoke and mirrors have been shown to be right. An old man moving up two divisions could do exactly what he wanted and for the third time. Understandably that makes Pac look a bit silly. But at the same time we should elevate Marquez and rightfully so. He is arguably the best fighter in the world bar one. And Floyd wouldn't even make weight for him. He is that dangerous.
It has destroyed the Pac/Mayweather matchup in my eyes.
No offense Miles - but you were one of the main people who doubted Marquez before the fight because it was being fought at welterweight. I never once doubted Marquez. I'm neither Flomo nor Pactard. I never have been. I have always said Floyd beats Manny. The writing was on the wall that Manny had trouble with counter punchers. Let's be objective here - it doesn't make his meteoric rise in weight any less impressive, it really doesn't (how many top ten welterweights has Floyd fought?) but every single one of Pacquiao's opponents was an offensive fighter. Every single one. Bruce Trampler at Top Rank is no dummy matchmaker. He knows how to match styles. Manny doesn't look silly here because an old man Marquez came up in weight and fought him neck and neck. I completely disagree. Marquez has always been a great boxer and he still is and he has always been able to counter Manny and he still does. Yet, Manny is still Manny Pacquiao. Put him in with Tim Bradley etc. and he'll knock off another top guy. At the same time, put him in with Marquez and he'll be in another close fight. Mayweather would dominate him. What this fight did at its essence is expose his weakness.
I agree that it has destroyed the Pac/Mayweather matchup for certain. Mayweather made the mistake of making this a ped issue. Manny could have been on 10 different varieties of ped's the other night, and the bottom line is he still can't fight a counter puncher. Roach hasn't taught him how to do it for some reason.
Yes, I believed the weight was all wrong and to a degree still believe so. It would have been even better at 140 and would have been the optimum compromise.
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
Criticizing a decision that gives a fight to someone you do not think deserved it, is not the same as hating the fighter awarded the fight. I am not a Pacquiao hater and think being awarded the win against Marquez has also tarnished his career. It does not mean for one moment that this is his fault or that he deserves to become an object of derision. The unreal puffed up exaggerated personae that Bob "insert your own derisive comment" Arum has created and the messianic like figure that many forum posters have made him are nonetheless easy blown up fabrications to puncture. Yeah there may be some haters but so many? not really.
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
because the definition of a Pachater is the following: Anyone who doesn't get on his knees to suck off Manny Pacquiao, anyone who doesn't think that he's as great as most of his peons do, anyone who thinks that Manny Pacquiao lost fights against Marquez.
it's always been this way, and yea PSL the judges did see something that none of us did, they saw a bunch of Ben Franklins eagerly waiting for them prior to the start of the fight :-X
Or in your case, it's because Pacquiao kicked the shit out of Morales. ;D
not even, didn't have a problem with Manny until his hoard of fans started trying to make him out to be a gift from God, more or less after the DLH fight, Raheem had already picked up the win against Morales and that was already a showing that the end was coming near for Erik, don't get confused, yea Morales put on two great performances in his last two fights, but one was against an unknown young kid, and the other against Maidana who was perfectly made for him (slow, wide shots, doesn't use straight punches), unlike the Pactards, I don't dwell on shit that cleanly happens in the ring, Manny beat Cotto, he did so fairly, like I said in another post yea Cotto didn't have a corner, but who's fault is that? it was Miguel's not Pacquiao's, but when it comes to fights like his wins over the likes of DLH, Mosley, Diaz, and especially Marquez, there's plenty of bullshit surrounding all of them
Oscar was weight drained and shot to shit, so I fail to see why that was such a big win, especially when Roach himself openly admits that's why they took the fight
Mosley shot as well and had just gotten his ass handed to him by Mayweather
Diaz was just given a gift decision against Erik Morales (IMO worst decision of the year), and was still the weakest "champ" at 135
and well as previously stated Marquez has gone 3-0 against Manny or at the very worst 2-0-1
So pretty much all of Pacquiao's big wins were either against shit/shot opponents, or "robberies" in the case of the 3 fights with Marquez, right?
:-X
P.S. You forgot Pacquiao's fight with Margo, but then he was shit/shot too, because he already had his ass handed to him by Mosley, right?
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Criticizing a decision that gives a fight to someone you do not think deserved it, is not the same as hating the fighter awarded the fight. I am not a Pacquiao hater and think being awarded the win against Marquez has also tarnished his career. It does not mean for one moment that this is his fault or that he deserves to become an object of derision. The unreal puffed up exaggerated personae that Bob "insert your own derisive comment" Arum has created and the messianic like figure that many forum posters have made him are nonetheless easy blown up fabrications to puncture. Yeah there may be some haters but so many? not really.
Of course not, the decision deserves to be critiqued, I just don't get all the hatred directed towards Pacquiao. I mean you've got a couple of childish assholes on this forum who believe that Pacquiao deserved to have beer bottles tossed at him last Saturday, WTF kind of mentality is that?
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
because the definition of a Pachater is the following: Anyone who doesn't get on his knees to suck off Manny Pacquiao, anyone who doesn't think that he's as great as most of his peons do, anyone who thinks that Manny Pacquiao lost fights against Marquez.
it's always been this way, and yea PSL the judges did see something that none of us did, they saw a bunch of Ben Franklins eagerly waiting for them prior to the start of the fight :-X
Or in your case, it's because Pacquiao kicked the shit out of Morales. ;D
not even, didn't have a problem with Manny until his hoard of fans started trying to make him out to be a gift from God, more or less after the DLH fight, Raheem had already picked up the win against Morales and that was already a showing that the end was coming near for Erik, don't get confused, yea Morales put on two great performances in his last two fights, but one was against an unknown young kid, and the other against Maidana who was perfectly made for him (slow, wide shots, doesn't use straight punches), unlike the Pactards, I don't dwell on shit that cleanly happens in the ring, Manny beat Cotto, he did so fairly, like I said in another post yea Cotto didn't have a corner, but who's fault is that? it was Miguel's not Pacquiao's, but when it comes to fights like his wins over the likes of DLH, Mosley, Diaz, and especially Marquez, there's plenty of bullshit surrounding all of them
Oscar was weight drained and shot to shit, so I fail to see why that was such a big win, especially when Roach himself openly admits that's why they took the fight
Mosley shot as well and had just gotten his ass handed to him by Mayweather
Diaz was just given a gift decision against Erik Morales (IMO worst decision of the year), and was still the weakest "champ" at 135
and well as previously stated Marquez has gone 3-0 against Manny or at the very worst 2-0-1
So pretty much all of Pacquiao's big wins were either against shit/shot opponents, or "robberies" in the case of the 3 fights with Marquez, right?
:-X
P.S. You forgot Pacquiao's fight with Margo, but then he was shit/shot too, because he already had his ass handed to him by Mosley, right?
his only clean cut wins that weren't against over the hill or weak opponents from 135 up were Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito, don't really see how you can say that any of the other fighters mentioned before were either not shot, or really were that good to begin with (David Diaz)
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
[QUOTE=ElTerribleMorales;1026897][QUOTE=Mars_ax;1026880]
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
So pretty much all of Pacquiao's big wins were either against shit/shot opponents, or "robberies" in the case of the 3 fights with Marquez, right?
:-X
P.S. You forgot Pacquiao's fight with Margo, but then he was shit/shot too, because he already had his ass handed to him by Mosley, right?
his only clean cut wins that weren't against over the hill or weak opponents from 135 up were Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito, don't really see how you can say that any of the other fighters mentioned before were either not shot, or really were that good to begin with (David Diaz)
Except for the brutal KO in his first fight at 135, I don't think anyone was extremely impressed with Pac's beatdown of Diaz..That leaves Delahoya & Mosley, you seem to forget that although both these former great champions, were fading, Delahoya was thought to be be too big and too strong for Manny. When this fight was first announced, Oscar was coming off a very competitive recent fight with Mayweather and everyone thought the much smaller Pacquiao was crazy to take the fight and would get annihilated. But then after Manny hands Oscar his ass, he suddenly becomes a weight drained chump.
As for Mosley, yeah he looked like shit against Mayweather, but 2 fights earlier he'd demolished Margo, and here again he was much bigger than Pacquiao, and thought to have a good chance of winning.
Starting to think i'm a Pactard? Not at all, Pac is just 1 of 50 or more fighters I enjoy watching, just giving credit where credit is due. While i'll agree that Pac may have really lost the latest fight with Marquez, it's ridiculous to belittle what he accomplished in the 6 fights prior to that.
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
[QUOTE=Mars_ax;1026901][QUOTE=ElTerribleMorales;1026897]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
So pretty much all of Pacquiao's big wins were either against shit/shot opponents, or "robberies" in the case of the 3 fights with Marquez, right?
:-X
P.S. You forgot Pacquiao's fight with Margo, but then he was shit/shot too, because he already had his ass handed to him by Mosley, right?
his only clean cut wins that weren't against over the hill or weak opponents from 135 up were Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito, don't really see how you can say that any of the other fighters mentioned before were either not shot, or really were that good to begin with (David Diaz)
Except for the brutal KO in his first fight at 135, I don't think anyone was extremely impressed with Pac's beatdown of Diaz..That leaves Delahoya & Mosley, you seem to forget that although both these former great champions, were fading, Delahoya was thought to be be too big and too strong for Manny. When this fight was first announced, Oscar was coming off a very competitive recent fight with Mayweather and everyone thought the much smaller Pacquiao was crazy to take the fight and would get annihilated. But then after Manny hands Oscar his ass, he suddenly becomes a weight drained chump.
As for Mosley, yeah he looked like shit against Mayweather, but 2 fights earlier he'd demolished Margo, and here again he was much bigger than Pacquiao, and thought to have a good chance of winning.
Starting to think i'm a Pactard? Not at all, Pac is just 1 of 50 or more fighters I enjoy watching, just giving credit where credit is due. While i'll agree that Pac may have really lost the latest fight with Marquez, it's ridiculous to belittle what he accomplished in the 6 fights prior to that.
DLH was competitive with Mayweather, but that was at 154, nobody thought that the move to 147 was a wise idea, and Oscar didn't look all that great against Forbes, Roach picked up on this and that's why the fight happened, it's not some theory that DLH was drained when Roach himself said he saw the needle marks on DLH's arm from when he was being re-hydrated, Manny fought a zombie that night
and against Mosley well Floyd had JUST BEATEN HIM, and by a landslide, so what was really the point in taking him on? especially when the fans were seriously against it, like i said bro you can try to play it up but as the saying goes "you're only as good as your last fight" and DLH, Mosley, and Diaz all had looked like shit in their fights before Pacquiao leading to why he chose them as opponents
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
[QUOTE=ElTerribleMorales;1026971][QUOTE=Mars_ax;1026901]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
So pretty much all of Pacquiao's big wins were either against shit/shot opponents, or "robberies" in the case of the 3 fights with Marquez, right?
:-X
P.S. You forgot Pacquiao's fight with Margo, but then he was shit/shot too, because he already had his ass handed to him by Mosley, right?
his only clean cut wins that weren't against over the hill or weak opponents from 135 up were Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito, don't really see how you can say that any of the other fighters mentioned before were either not shot, or really were that good to begin with (David Diaz)
Except for the brutal KO in his first fight at 135, I don't think anyone was extremely impressed with Pac's beatdown of Diaz..That leaves Delahoya & Mosley, you seem to forget that although both these former great champions, were fading, Delahoya was thought to be be too big and too strong for Manny. When this fight was first announced, Oscar was coming off a very competitive recent fight with Mayweather and everyone thought the much smaller Pacquiao was crazy to take the fight and would get annihilated. But then after Manny hands Oscar his ass, he suddenly becomes a weight drained chump.
As for Mosley, yeah he looked like shit against Mayweather, but 2 fights earlier he'd demolished Margo, and here again he was much bigger than Pacquiao, and thought to have a good chance of winning.
Starting to think i'm a Pactard? Not at all, Pac is just 1 of 50 or more fighters I enjoy watching, just giving credit where credit is due. While i'll agree that Pac may have really lost the latest fight with Marquez, it's ridiculous to belittle what he accomplished in the 6 fights prior to that.
DLH was competitive with Mayweather, but that was at 154, nobody thought that the move to 147 was a wise idea, and Oscar didn't look all that great against Forbes, Roach picked up on this and that's why the fight happened, it's not some theory that DLH was drained when Roach himself said he saw the needle marks on DLH's arm from when he was being re-hydrated, Manny fought a zombie that night
and against Mosley well Floyd had JUST BEATEN HIM, and by a landslide, so what was really the point in taking him on? especially when the fans were seriously against it, like i said bro you can try to play it up but as the saying goes "you're only as good as your last fight" and DLH, Mosley, and Diaz all had looked like shit in their fights before Pacquiao leading to why he chose them as opponents
You can belittle Pac's beatdown and stoppage of De La Hoya all you want, but "weight drained" or not, at the time it was considered a remarkable accomplishment. As for Mosley, I tend to agree that this fight should never have been made, but here again, Mosley is a great former champion who had destroyed Margarito 2 years earlier, and Pacquiao dominated the much bigger man.
As for Roach, he must be the smartest mother-fucker to ever live, handpicking all these "washed up" old pros for Pac to demolish, and his timing is just fucking incredible. :rolleyes:
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
[QUOTE=Mars_ax;1027042][QUOTE=ElTerribleMorales;1026971]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
So pretty much all of Pacquiao's big wins were either against shit/shot opponents, or "robberies" in the case of the 3 fights with Marquez, right?
:-X
P.S. You forgot Pacquiao's fight with Margo, but then he was shit/shot too, because he already had his ass handed to him by Mosley, right?
his only clean cut wins that weren't against over the hill or weak opponents from 135 up were Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito, don't really see how you can say that any of the other fighters mentioned before were either not shot, or really were that good to begin with (David Diaz)
Except for the brutal KO in his first fight at 135, I don't think anyone was extremely impressed with Pac's beatdown of Diaz..That leaves Delahoya & Mosley, you seem to forget that although both these former great champions, were fading, Delahoya was thought to be be too big and too strong for Manny. When this fight was first announced, Oscar was coming off a very competitive recent fight with Mayweather and everyone thought the much smaller Pacquiao was crazy to take the fight and would get annihilated. But then after Manny hands Oscar his ass, he suddenly becomes a weight drained chump.
As for Mosley, yeah he looked like shit against Mayweather, but 2 fights earlier he'd demolished Margo, and here again he was much bigger than Pacquiao, and thought to have a good chance of winning.
Starting to think i'm a Pactard? Not at all, Pac is just 1 of 50 or more fighters I enjoy watching, just giving credit where credit is due. While i'll agree that Pac may have really lost the latest fight with Marquez, it's ridiculous to belittle what he accomplished in the 6 fights prior to that.
DLH was competitive with Mayweather, but that was at 154, nobody thought that the move to 147 was a wise idea, and Oscar didn't look all that great against Forbes, Roach picked up on this and that's why the fight happened, it's not some theory that DLH was drained when Roach himself said he saw the needle marks on DLH's arm from when he was being re-hydrated, Manny fought a zombie that night
and against Mosley well Floyd had JUST BEATEN HIM, and by a landslide, so what was really the point in taking him on? especially when the fans were seriously against it, like i said bro you can try to play it up but as the saying goes "you're only as good as your last fight" and DLH, Mosley, and Diaz all had looked like shit in their fights before Pacquiao leading to why he chose them as opponents
You can belittle Pac's beatdown and stoppage of De La Hoya all you want, but "weight drained" or not, at the time it was considered a remarkable accomplishment. As for Mosley, I tend to agree that this fight should never have been made, but here again, Mosley is a great former champion who had destroyed Margarito 2 years earlier, and Pacquiao dominated the much bigger man.
As for Roach, he must be the smartest mother-fucker to ever live, handpicking all these "washed up" old pros for Pac to demolish, and his timing is just fucking incredible. :rolleyes:
Well what can I say? The man is good. ;D
Re: Why so many Pac haters? It seems that every thread there's always a hater?
[QUOTE=ninjaspy3;1027060][QUOTE=Mars_ax;1027042]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
So pretty much all of Pacquiao's big wins were either against shit/shot opponents, or "robberies" in the case of the 3 fights with Marquez, right?
:-X
P.S. You forgot Pacquiao's fight with Margo, but then he was shit/shot too, because he already had his ass handed to him by Mosley, right?
his only clean cut wins that weren't against over the hill or weak opponents from 135 up were Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito, don't really see how you can say that any of the other fighters mentioned before were either not shot, or really were that good to begin with (David Diaz)
Except for the brutal KO in his first fight at 135, I don't think anyone was extremely impressed with Pac's beatdown of Diaz..That leaves Delahoya & Mosley, you seem to forget that although both these former great champions, were fading, Delahoya was thought to be be too big and too strong for Manny. When this fight was first announced, Oscar was coming off a very competitive recent fight with Mayweather and everyone thought the much smaller Pacquiao was crazy to take the fight and would get annihilated. But then after Manny hands Oscar his ass, he suddenly becomes a weight drained chump.
As for Mosley, yeah he looked like shit against Mayweather, but 2 fights earlier he'd demolished Margo, and here again he was much bigger than Pacquiao, and thought to have a good chance of winning.
Starting to think i'm a Pactard? Not at all, Pac is just 1 of 50 or more fighters I enjoy watching, just giving credit where credit is due. While i'll agree that Pac may have really lost the latest fight with Marquez, it's ridiculous to belittle what he accomplished in the 6 fights prior to that.
DLH was competitive with Mayweather, but that was at 154, nobody thought that the move to 147 was a wise idea, and Oscar didn't look all that great against Forbes, Roach picked up on this and that's why the fight happened, it's not some theory that DLH was drained when Roach himself said he saw the needle marks on DLH's arm from when he was being re-hydrated, Manny fought a zombie that night
and against Mosley well Floyd had JUST BEATEN HIM, and by a landslide, so what was really the point in taking him on? especially when the fans were seriously against it, like i said bro you can try to play it up but as the saying goes "you're only as good as your last fight" and DLH, Mosley, and Diaz all had looked like shit in their fights before Pacquiao leading to why he chose them as opponents
You can belittle Pac's beatdown and stoppage of De La Hoya all you want, but "weight drained" or not, at the time it was considered a remarkable accomplishment. As for Mosley, I tend to agree that this fight should never have been made, but here again, Mosley is a great former champion who had destroyed Margarito 2 years earlier, and Pacquiao dominated the much bigger man.
As for Roach, he must be the smartest mother-fucker to ever live, handpicking all these "washed up" old pros for Pac to demolish, and his timing is just fucking incredible. :rolleyes:
Well what can I say? The man is good. ;D
Who else should PAC have been fighting on his rise to the top. Should he have fought jmm 15 times. No he should've waited for 5 years to let Floyd handpick him for a fight. Wtf
