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Yeah but weren't they talking Feb? Even with this fight it would still give Arce 3 months to prepare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Arce didn't want to wait to face Donaire. And he told Vazquez he would rematch him any time. Vazquez never answered him. So Arce said the hell with it and has gone back down in weightQuote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
hahahaha Vazquez is 21-1-1, Chavez is at 44-0-1, so that's double the amount of fucking fights, 3 different weight classes, and you have the balls to say that Vazquez Jr avoided Lopez yet leave out that JCC Jr has avoided fighting the likes of anyone at 147, Alvarez, Angulo, Williams, Cintron, hell anyone with a pulse, and at 160 well it looks like he's going to do the same, I find it fuckin hilarious how Chavez Jr has beat only a who's who of fighters YOU have constantly gone out of your way to point out how horrible they were and how they were bums (Manfredo Jr, Duddy, Vanda), the only good name on his record is fucking Carlos Molina and he was ripped off in both fightsQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt's fucking irritating dealing with muthafukkas who have to lie to try and make there fighter look good. You were better off saying you were ignorant to the situation instead of embarrassing yourself like this. Vazquez won the WBO Super Bantamweight title when he beat Sonsona. It was a vacant title. Juan Manuel Lopez gave it up when he moved up in weight. Sonsona never held that title. Only title he ever held was the WBO Super Flyweight title. Sonsona moved up 2 weight classes to fight Vazquez. Vazquez and his people did everything they could to avoid fighting Lopez. They waited till he moved up and than went for the title. Instead of having him face the next highest ranked opponent, The WBO which everybody knows headquarters in Puerto Rico looked out for Vazquez and let him get a away with fighting a fighter who was moving up in weight. Not one. But two weight classes. So don't give me this bullshit how Vazquez does shit the hard way. Cuz he doesn't. Facts are facts. He too has benefited from his famous daddies name and has been granted favors he wouldn't of gotten with a different last nameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Chavez Jr. is being correctly paced given his lack of amateur background (he had two amateur fights!). If you were his handlers you would do the exact same thing. The only problem people have with Chavez Jr. is that he was gifted the title and that he has received more publicity than other boxers with identical professional credentials would normally receive. However, it's not his fault he sells out stadiums already. I hope he continues to take steps up in competition, but I don't think it's fair to be mad if they are only baby steps. At middleweight, I imagine a fight with Andy Lee would be a good fight and it's not like Andy Lee hasn't been on HBO a couple of times.
and? Wilfredo Vazquez Jr had 0 amateur fights and he's already fought Arce and is in line to fight Donaire, that broke down excuse will only get him so far, if he wanted Martinez' belt he should have stepped up and fought him, not throw around other fighter's names to try and make himself relevant (he's called out DLH, Cotto, Alvarez, and plenty of other fighters only never to deliver), Chavez needs to step it up, don't really see how after 45 spoon fed fights anyone can really dispute it, hell Alvarez is younger and is already taking on better oppositionQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I'll leave the comparison of Vasquez Jr. and Chavez Jr. to you and VD. The reason I dispute his need to step it up is his lack of amateur career. I also don't think you'd pace him any differently if you were managing him given his lack of amateur career. He literally had two amateur fights. Martinez himself had a very limited amateur career for that matter. I wouldn't fault him for not fighting Martinez, but he should vacate the belt. I think a fight with Lee or someone along those lines would be ideal right now for his development.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesand? Wilfredo Vazquez Jr had 0 amateur fights and he's already fought Arce and is in line to fight Donaire, that broke down excuse will only get him so far, if he wanted Martinez' belt he should have stepped up and fought him, not throw around other fighter's names to try and make himself relevant (he's called out DLH, Cotto, Alvarez, and plenty of other fighters only never to deliver), Chavez needs to step it up, don't really see how after 45 spoon fed fights anyone can really dispute it, hell Alvarez is younger and is already taking on better oppositionQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
again, Vazquez had NO amateur career so that excuse should be thrown out the window, whatever lack of amateur career he has he's already made up with pro fights, already been in the ring 45 times, albeit against bums, you can't expect a guy to learn a goddam thing in the ring if you only feed him guys that are going to basically roll over for the fucker, Chavez HAS NOT stepped it up in opposition at all, Alvarez who is accused of the same thing and is 4 yrs younger, no amateur career and at least after criticism is going in against Cintron on Saturday night, if Chavez next outing isn't against someone at least rated in the top 5 at 160 he should be stripped but like I said, Uncle Sulaiman isn't gonna let neither of those two actions happen...Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI'll leave the comparison of Vasquez Jr. and Chavez Jr. to you and VD. The reason I dispute his need to step it up is his lack of amateur career. I also don't think you'd pace him any differently if you were managing him given his lack of amateur career. He literally had two amateur fights. Martinez himself had a very limited amateur career for that matter. I wouldn't fault him for not fighting Martinez, but he should vacate the belt. I think a fight with Lee or someone along those lines would be ideal right now for his development.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesand? Wilfredo Vazquez Jr had 0 amateur fights and he's already fought Arce and is in line to fight Donaire, that broke down excuse will only get him so far, if he wanted Martinez' belt he should have stepped up and fought him, not throw around other fighter's names to try and make himself relevant (he's called out DLH, Cotto, Alvarez, and plenty of other fighters only never to deliver), Chavez needs to step it up, don't really see how after 45 spoon fed fights anyone can really dispute it, hell Alvarez is younger and is already taking on better oppositionQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Zbik was ranked in the top ten when he faced Chavez Jr. although I thought Chavez Jr escaped with a lucky win that night. I saw Zbik winning or at the very least that the fight was a lot closer than was suggested on the cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesagain, Vazquez had NO amateur career so that excuse should be thrown out the window, whatever lack of amateur career he has he's already made up with pro fights, already been in the ring 45 times, albeit against bums, you can't expect a guy to learn a goddam thing in the ring if you only feed him guys that are going to basically roll over for the fucker, Chavez HAS NOT stepped it up in opposition at all, Alvarez who is accused of the same thing and is 4 yrs younger, no amateur career and at least after criticism is going in against Cintron on Saturday night, if Chavez next outing isn't against someone at least rated in the top 5 at 160 he should be stripped but like I said, Uncle Sulaiman isn't gonna let neither of those two actions happen...Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI'll leave the comparison of Vasquez Jr. and Chavez Jr. to you and VD. The reason I dispute his need to step it up is his lack of amateur career. I also don't think you'd pace him any differently if you were managing him given his lack of amateur career. He literally had two amateur fights. Martinez himself had a very limited amateur career for that matter. I wouldn't fault him for not fighting Martinez, but he should vacate the belt. I think a fight with Lee or someone along those lines would be ideal right now for his development.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesand? Wilfredo Vazquez Jr had 0 amateur fights and he's already fought Arce and is in line to fight Donaire, that broke down excuse will only get him so far, if he wanted Martinez' belt he should have stepped up and fought him, not throw around other fighter's names to try and make himself relevant (he's called out DLH, Cotto, Alvarez, and plenty of other fighters only never to deliver), Chavez needs to step it up, don't really see how after 45 spoon fed fights anyone can really dispute it, hell Alvarez is younger and is already taking on better oppositionQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Zbik was ripped off and he himself has never won a legitimate world title, so he's not even on the level of Arce, Donaire, or CintronQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratZbik was ranked in the top ten when he faced Chavez Jr. although I thought Chavez Jr escaped with a lucky win that night. I saw Zbik winning or at the very least that the fight was a lot closer than was suggested on the cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesagain, Vazquez had NO amateur career so that excuse should be thrown out the window, whatever lack of amateur career he has he's already made up with pro fights, already been in the ring 45 times, albeit against bums, you can't expect a guy to learn a goddam thing in the ring if you only feed him guys that are going to basically roll over for the fucker, Chavez HAS NOT stepped it up in opposition at all, Alvarez who is accused of the same thing and is 4 yrs younger, no amateur career and at least after criticism is going in against Cintron on Saturday night, if Chavez next outing isn't against someone at least rated in the top 5 at 160 he should be stripped but like I said, Uncle Sulaiman isn't gonna let neither of those two actions happen...Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI'll leave the comparison of Vasquez Jr. and Chavez Jr. to you and VD. The reason I dispute his need to step it up is his lack of amateur career. I also don't think you'd pace him any differently if you were managing him given his lack of amateur career. He literally had two amateur fights. Martinez himself had a very limited amateur career for that matter. I wouldn't fault him for not fighting Martinez, but he should vacate the belt. I think a fight with Lee or someone along those lines would be ideal right now for his development.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesand? Wilfredo Vazquez Jr had 0 amateur fights and he's already fought Arce and is in line to fight Donaire, that broke down excuse will only get him so far, if he wanted Martinez' belt he should have stepped up and fought him, not throw around other fighter's names to try and make himself relevant (he's called out DLH, Cotto, Alvarez, and plenty of other fighters only never to deliver), Chavez needs to step it up, don't really see how after 45 spoon fed fights anyone can really dispute it, hell Alvarez is younger and is already taking on better oppositionQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
add in that Chavez couldn't even beat Zbik clearly even with a 20+ lb advantage, doesn't speak well for the kid
My only point was that Chavez Jr. hate has gone a little overboard. I have two problems with Chavez Jr. He has a title that he hasn't earned and he consistently is handed HBO dates when there are better fights out there for HBO to put on. I don't think he's ready for Sergio Martinez or even as ready as he ever would be. He needs to learn to box a bit more to reach his true potential, which isn't going to be elite, but he can still refine his craft. That is why I think he should face someone like Andy Lee etc. in his next fight.
I'm not anti-Vasquez Jr. I believe Donaire will thoroughly dominate him, but I mean no disrescect toward him.
I would prefer to see Donaire fight Nishioka, winner of Ramos/Rigandeaux, Mares/Agbecko winner, and maybe even the winner of Vic/Moreno than Vasquez Jr. Am I alone? If he is indeed can't make 118. Then how about wait until Ramos/Rigandeaux clears up before making a decision on who to fight next? However, I guess I understand wanting a first fight at 122 to be relatively easy before getting in there with Ragandeaux/Ramos or Nishioka. Wouldn't a Chris John v. Nonito Donaire fight be huge in a year or two assuming John continues to face nobody's up until then to preserve his record?
my grudge with Chavez Jr is that he wants to be treated as a boxing star, so in order to be treated like that he should be fighting the best, cause if his goal isn't to be the best then what's the point? he's making millions fighting bums and living off of his dad's name, it's about time to shit or get off the pot, every other "talented" son of a famous fighter fought World Level Opposition at one pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Camacho Jr, sucked ass but he still fought the likes of Leija (this was before Leija's win over Bojado mind you), and Karmazin
Marviz Frazier, fought the likes of Holmes, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson, he was KO'd in the 1st against Holmes and Tyson but hell he made the fucking effort
there are more just right now off the top of my head can't really put them together
Ronald Hearns fought Felix Sturm. Dyah Davis is working his way up the ropes. I get your point. I'm going to wait to see how his title situation shakes out and who Chavez Jr.'s next opponents is before I pass judgment. I thought Manfredo Jr. was really just one last gimme fight before the WBA strips his title and gives it to Martinez. I bet they just create another belt for Chavez Jr. to be honest. Where does Rubio fall in all this? Wasn't his fight against Lemiuex supposed to be a mandatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesmy grudge with Chavez Jr is that he wants to be treated as a boxing star, so in order to be treated like that he should be fighting the best, cause if his goal isn't to be the best then what's the point? he's making millions fighting bums and living off of his dad's name, it's about time to shit or get off the pot, every other "talented" son of a famous fighter fought World Level Opposition at one pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Camacho Jr, sucked ass but he still fought the likes of Leija (this was before Leija's win over Bojado mind you), and Karmazin
Marviz Frazier, fought the likes of Holmes, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson, he was KO'd in the 1st against Holmes and Tyson but hell he made the fucking effort
there are more just right now off the top of my head can't really put them together
Chavez has the WBC, but yea even Rubio would be a step up, but he won't even take that "risk"Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratRonald Hearns fought Felix Sturm. Dyah Davis is working his way up the ropes. I get your point. I'm going to wait to see how his title situation shakes out and who Chavez Jr.'s next opponents is before I pass judgment. I thought Manfredo Jr. was really just one last gimme fight before the WBA strips his title and gives it to Martinez. I bet they just create another belt for Chavez Jr. to be honest. Where does Rubio fall in all this? Wasn't his fight against Lemiuex supposed to be a mandatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesmy grudge with Chavez Jr is that he wants to be treated as a boxing star, so in order to be treated like that he should be fighting the best, cause if his goal isn't to be the best then what's the point? he's making millions fighting bums and living off of his dad's name, it's about time to shit or get off the pot, every other "talented" son of a famous fighter fought World Level Opposition at one pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Camacho Jr, sucked ass but he still fought the likes of Leija (this was before Leija's win over Bojado mind you), and Karmazin
Marviz Frazier, fought the likes of Holmes, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson, he was KO'd in the 1st against Holmes and Tyson but hell he made the fucking effort
there are more just right now off the top of my head can't really put them together
Rubio isn't bad at all in my opinion. He makes for good fights too. I would like to see him in with any of the top guys at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesChavez has the WBC, but yea even Rubio would be a step up, but he won't even take that "risk"Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratRonald Hearns fought Felix Sturm. Dyah Davis is working his way up the ropes. I get your point. I'm going to wait to see how his title situation shakes out and who Chavez Jr.'s next opponents is before I pass judgment. I thought Manfredo Jr. was really just one last gimme fight before the WBA strips his title and gives it to Martinez. I bet they just create another belt for Chavez Jr. to be honest. Where does Rubio fall in all this? Wasn't his fight against Lemiuex supposed to be a mandatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesmy grudge with Chavez Jr is that he wants to be treated as a boxing star, so in order to be treated like that he should be fighting the best, cause if his goal isn't to be the best then what's the point? he's making millions fighting bums and living off of his dad's name, it's about time to shit or get off the pot, every other "talented" son of a famous fighter fought World Level Opposition at one pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Camacho Jr, sucked ass but he still fought the likes of Leija (this was before Leija's win over Bojado mind you), and Karmazin
Marviz Frazier, fought the likes of Holmes, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson, he was KO'd in the 1st against Holmes and Tyson but hell he made the fucking effort
there are more just right now off the top of my head can't really put them together
Rubio's good, but he's not a world level fighter, look what a half assed Pavlik did to him, but he'd be better than anyone that Chavez has taken on, plus he'd finally fight someone who has actual powerQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratRubio isn't bad at all in my opinion. He makes for good fights too. I would like to see him in with any of the top guys at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesChavez has the WBC, but yea even Rubio would be a step up, but he won't even take that "risk"Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratRonald Hearns fought Felix Sturm. Dyah Davis is working his way up the ropes. I get your point. I'm going to wait to see how his title situation shakes out and who Chavez Jr.'s next opponents is before I pass judgment. I thought Manfredo Jr. was really just one last gimme fight before the WBA strips his title and gives it to Martinez. I bet they just create another belt for Chavez Jr. to be honest. Where does Rubio fall in all this? Wasn't his fight against Lemiuex supposed to be a mandatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesmy grudge with Chavez Jr is that he wants to be treated as a boxing star, so in order to be treated like that he should be fighting the best, cause if his goal isn't to be the best then what's the point? he's making millions fighting bums and living off of his dad's name, it's about time to shit or get off the pot, every other "talented" son of a famous fighter fought World Level Opposition at one pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Camacho Jr, sucked ass but he still fought the likes of Leija (this was before Leija's win over Bojado mind you), and Karmazin
Marviz Frazier, fought the likes of Holmes, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson, he was KO'd in the 1st against Holmes and Tyson but hell he made the fucking effort
there are more just right now off the top of my head can't really put them together
Yes, but he blew away Lemiuex who had been himself been blowing away people. I don't take anything away from Rubio for losing to Pavlik. Pavlik was a world champion who has only lost to the best. In addition, Pavlik beats guys who stand and trade and has problems with defensive fighters. Rubio was tailor-made for him, but that doesn't mean Rubio wouldn't give many other fighters good scraps.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesRubio's good, but he's not a world level fighter, look what a half assed Pavlik did to him, but he'd be better than anyone that Chavez has taken on, plus he'd finally fight someone who has actual powerQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratRubio isn't bad at all in my opinion. He makes for good fights too. I would like to see him in with any of the top guys at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesChavez has the WBC, but yea even Rubio would be a step up, but he won't even take that "risk"Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratRonald Hearns fought Felix Sturm. Dyah Davis is working his way up the ropes. I get your point. I'm going to wait to see how his title situation shakes out and who Chavez Jr.'s next opponents is before I pass judgment. I thought Manfredo Jr. was really just one last gimme fight before the WBA strips his title and gives it to Martinez. I bet they just create another belt for Chavez Jr. to be honest. Where does Rubio fall in all this? Wasn't his fight against Lemiuex supposed to be a mandatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesmy grudge with Chavez Jr is that he wants to be treated as a boxing star, so in order to be treated like that he should be fighting the best, cause if his goal isn't to be the best then what's the point? he's making millions fighting bums and living off of his dad's name, it's about time to shit or get off the pot, every other "talented" son of a famous fighter fought World Level Opposition at one pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Camacho Jr, sucked ass but he still fought the likes of Leija (this was before Leija's win over Bojado mind you), and Karmazin
Marviz Frazier, fought the likes of Holmes, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson, he was KO'd in the 1st against Holmes and Tyson but hell he made the fucking effort
there are more just right now off the top of my head can't really put them together
No, you're not. This fight is total garbage. Any of the fights you list is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Personally, I think if he's outgrown 118, he should just bypass 122 and go straight to 126 where the big fights are. He can have his freebie there instead of wasting it on Vasquez, and then if he looks/feels good at the weight, work toward a fight with Gamboa, which IMO would be bigger and better than the Gamboa/Rios match Arum is trying to sell (though that one is not bad either; Rios's size may be a problem for Gamboa). Salido, JM Lopez, and Chris John are obviously all better fights than anything at 122 as well.
I'll say it again -- if he's going to waste a fight at 122, it should be with Nishioka. That's the only matchup that's even halfway competitive at that weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt's fucking irritating dealing with muthafukkas who have to lie to try and make there fighter look good. You were better off saying you were ignorant to the situation instead of embarrassing yourself like this. Vazquez won the WBO Super Bantamweight title when he beat Sonsona. It was a vacant title. Juan Manuel Lopez gave it up when he moved up in weight. Sonsona never held that title. Only title he ever held was the WBO Super Flyweight title. Sonsona moved up 2 weight classes to fight Vazquez. Vazquez and his people did everything they could to avoid fighting Lopez. They waited till he moved up and than went for the title. Instead of having him face the next highest ranked opponent, The WBO which everybody knows headquarters in Puerto Rico looked out for Vazquez and let him get a away with fighting a fighter who was moving up in weight. Not one. But two weight classes. So don't give me this bullshit how Vazquez does shit the hard way. Cuz he doesn't. Facts are facts. He too has benefited from his famous daddies name and has been granted favors he wouldn't of gotten with a different last nameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I cannot believe that you would actually throw the dirt on Vazquez that actually should be thrown on baby Chavez. Scratch that..... I do believe it. This is ONE argument you won't win with tough 'hood talk. If the situations were reversed, you'd be having a field day with this one.... and you'd be right. But since you KNOW you're defending the wrong fighter here... you resort to your trash-talking tactics. Really VD...... all it does is undermine whatever credibility you have.
I'll assure you of one thing: At the end of the day, Vazquez Jr. will amount to more, accomplish more, and be looked up to more.... than the babied, coddled, over-protected Baby Chavez, with his doting father hovering close by, making sure his young chick doesn't go anywhere NEAR someone with a pulse.
C'mon..... surprise me by admitting you're on the wrong side this time.
;)
haha dammm VD, chillll killa...
ok i gotta ask...... is that a tatoo? or an autograph? either way..... props for a hell of an avatar
(any chance we get to see the rest?)
lol Thanks man.. I'd be horrified if that was a tatoo.. Not exactly a pretty lettering is it? I should have took more time to write it neatly but whatever..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I left her face out, out of respect bro.. After all, she's soon to be my wife.
\Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitalol Thanks man.. I'd be horrified if that was a tatoo.. Not exactly a pretty lettering is it? I should have took more time to write it neatly but whatever..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I left her face out, out of respect bro.. After all, she's soon to be my wife.
Oops.... my bad bro. But (and I mean this from the bottom of my heart), CONGRATS.
:)
Nice sig.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan\Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitalol Thanks man.. I'd be horrified if that was a tatoo.. Not exactly a pretty lettering is it? I should have took more time to write it neatly but whatever..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I left her face out, out of respect bro.. After all, she's soon to be my wife.
Oops.... my bad bro. But (and I mean this from the bottom of my heart), CONGRATS.
:)
It's an ok fight that's about it. He's too slow for Donaire.
What the hell you talking about? Ain't no trash talking. I'm making my point by stating straight facts. The problem is you can't dispute anything I said. Cuz it's all on point. And you know it. Tell me. How exactly am I throwing dirt on Vazquez when everything I said was true?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt's fucking irritating dealing with muthafukkas who have to lie to try and make there fighter look good. You were better off saying you were ignorant to the situation instead of embarrassing yourself like this. Vazquez won the WBO Super Bantamweight title when he beat Sonsona. It was a vacant title. Juan Manuel Lopez gave it up when he moved up in weight. Sonsona never held that title. Only title he ever held was the WBO Super Flyweight title. Sonsona moved up 2 weight classes to fight Vazquez. Vazquez and his people did everything they could to avoid fighting Lopez. They waited till he moved up and than went for the title. Instead of having him face the next highest ranked opponent, The WBO which everybody knows headquarters in Puerto Rico looked out for Vazquez and let him get a away with fighting a fighter who was moving up in weight. Not one. But two weight classes. So don't give me this bullshit how Vazquez does shit the hard way. Cuz he doesn't. Facts are facts. He too has benefited from his famous daddies name and has been granted favors he wouldn't of gotten with a different last nameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I cannot believe that you would actually throw the dirt on Vazquez that actually should be thrown on baby Chavez. Scratch that..... I do believe it. This is ONE argument you won't win with tough 'hood talk. If the situations were reversed, you'd be having a field day with this one.... and you'd be right. But since you KNOW you're defending the wrong fighter here... you resort to your trash-talking tactics. Really VD...... all it does is undermine whatever credibility you have.
I'll assure you of one thing: At the end of the day, Vazquez Jr. will amount to more, accomplish more, and be looked up to more.... than the babied, coddled, over-protected Baby Chavez, with his doting father hovering close by, making sure his young chick doesn't go anywhere NEAR someone with a pulse.
C'mon..... surprise me by admitting you're on the wrong side this time.
;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWhat the hell you talking about? Ain't no trash talking. I'm making my point by stating straight facts. The problem is you can't dispute anything I said. Cuz it's all on point. And you know it. Tell me. How exactly am I throwing dirt on Vazquez when everything I said was true?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt's fucking irritating dealing with muthafukkas who have to lie to try and make there fighter look good. You were better off saying you were ignorant to the situation instead of embarrassing yourself like this. Vazquez won the WBO Super Bantamweight title when he beat Sonsona. It was a vacant title. Juan Manuel Lopez gave it up when he moved up in weight. Sonsona never held that title. Only title he ever held was the WBO Super Flyweight title. Sonsona moved up 2 weight classes to fight Vazquez. Vazquez and his people did everything they could to avoid fighting Lopez. They waited till he moved up and than went for the title. Instead of having him face the next highest ranked opponent, The WBO which everybody knows headquarters in Puerto Rico looked out for Vazquez and let him get a away with fighting a fighter who was moving up in weight. Not one. But two weight classes. So don't give me this bullshit how Vazquez does shit the hard way. Cuz he doesn't. Facts are facts. He too has benefited from his famous daddies name and has been granted favors he wouldn't of gotten with a different last nameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I cannot believe that you would actually throw the dirt on Vazquez that actually should be thrown on baby Chavez. Scratch that..... I do believe it. This is ONE argument you won't win with tough 'hood talk. If the situations were reversed, you'd be having a field day with this one.... and you'd be right. But since you KNOW you're defending the wrong fighter here... you resort to your trash-talking tactics. Really VD...... all it does is undermine whatever credibility you have.
I'll assure you of one thing: At the end of the day, Vazquez Jr. will amount to more, accomplish more, and be looked up to more.... than the babied, coddled, over-protected Baby Chavez, with his doting father hovering close by, making sure his young chick doesn't go anywhere NEAR someone with a pulse.
C'mon..... surprise me by admitting you're on the wrong side this time.
;)
There is only one undisputed fact here. Vazquez Jr, with half the fights Chavez Jr has, has already taken on an ex-champion, and narrowly lost. What motivated them to take the fight isn't what's important. What's important was the resulting level of competition.
Meanwhile, on a subject you're so strangely quiet about, Baby Chavez has yet to come within shouting distance of a worthy opponent. And what's worse... Overbearing Papa Chavez isn't showing any signs of allowing his baby boy to face any serious challengers (any that can bang, anyway).
We can go back and forth on this all day. Vazquez's opponents vs. Baby Chavez's opponents. But the fact remains.... at twice the fights Vazquez has, the Baby has faced lesser opposition. Tell me, Baby Chavez has fought over 40 times, and still has a bloated record based on bums. What did his list of opponents look like when he had only fought the same amount as Vazquez has now? Answer: an even more disgusting list of bums.
;)
The hell it isn't. It's very important. But I'm a leave that alone. Since we in agreement that Vazquez would of never faced Arce if they thought he was a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWhat the hell you talking about? Ain't no trash talking. I'm making my point by stating straight facts. The problem is you can't dispute anything I said. Cuz it's all on point. And you know it. Tell me. How exactly am I throwing dirt on Vazquez when everything I said was true?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt's fucking irritating dealing with muthafukkas who have to lie to try and make there fighter look good. You were better off saying you were ignorant to the situation instead of embarrassing yourself like this. Vazquez won the WBO Super Bantamweight title when he beat Sonsona. It was a vacant title. Juan Manuel Lopez gave it up when he moved up in weight. Sonsona never held that title. Only title he ever held was the WBO Super Flyweight title. Sonsona moved up 2 weight classes to fight Vazquez. Vazquez and his people did everything they could to avoid fighting Lopez. They waited till he moved up and than went for the title. Instead of having him face the next highest ranked opponent, The WBO which everybody knows headquarters in Puerto Rico looked out for Vazquez and let him get a away with fighting a fighter who was moving up in weight. Not one. But two weight classes. So don't give me this bullshit how Vazquez does shit the hard way. Cuz he doesn't. Facts are facts. He too has benefited from his famous daddies name and has been granted favors he wouldn't of gotten with a different last nameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I cannot believe that you would actually throw the dirt on Vazquez that actually should be thrown on baby Chavez. Scratch that..... I do believe it. This is ONE argument you won't win with tough 'hood talk. If the situations were reversed, you'd be having a field day with this one.... and you'd be right. But since you KNOW you're defending the wrong fighter here... you resort to your trash-talking tactics. Really VD...... all it does is undermine whatever credibility you have.
I'll assure you of one thing: At the end of the day, Vazquez Jr. will amount to more, accomplish more, and be looked up to more.... than the babied, coddled, over-protected Baby Chavez, with his doting father hovering close by, making sure his young chick doesn't go anywhere NEAR someone with a pulse.
C'mon..... surprise me by admitting you're on the wrong side this time.
;)
There is only one undisputed fact here. Vazquez Jr, with half the fights Chavez Jr has, has already taken on an ex-champion, and narrowly lost. What motivated them to take the fight isn't what's important. What's important was the resulting level of competition.
Meanwhile, on a subject you're so strangely quiet about, Baby Chavez has yet to come within shouting distance of a worthy opponent. And what's worse... Overbearing Papa Chavez isn't showing any signs of allowing his baby boy to face any serious challengers (any that can bang, anyway).
We can go back and forth on this all day. Vazquez's opponents vs. Baby Chavez's opponents. But the fact remains.... at twice the fights Vazquez has, the Baby has faced lesser opposition. Tell me, Baby Chavez has fought over 40 times, and still has a bloated record based on bums. What did his list of opponents look like when he had only fought the same amount as Vazquez has now? Answer: an even more disgusting list of bums.
;)
Chavez Sr was like 5 times the fighter Vazquez Sr was. So the Chavez name carries way more weight than the Vazauez name. So if lil Vazquez wants to make some decent money he needs to fight the best. Cuz no one gonna watch him otherwise. Chavez Jr is gonna be watched no matter what.
You listen to Chavez talk and you hear the same thing. "I need to get better". "I'm learning a lot". Blah, blah, blah. He's not a finished product. And he knows it. He's never claimed to be the best. Vazquez on the other hand considers himself the best in his divsion. Good for him. Now go prove it. I got no problem with fighters thinking there the best. As long as they go out and prove it. Or at least tried to prove it. It's the reason I always came down on UK fighters like Calzaghe and Haye. They would run there mouths about being the best. Than go out and fight the plumber who had just fixed there sink. Chavez don't talk like that. So he gets a little slack
keep deep throating that dick VD, and you can go on all you want but when it comes down to it, Chavez only won titles in 3 weight classes just like Vazquez, and although he'll be remembered as the greatest fighter of his country, his son will never amount to anything serious :-X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe hell it isn't. It's very important. But I'm a leave that alone. Since we in agreement that Vazquez would of never faced Arce if they thought he was a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWhat the hell you talking about? Ain't no trash talking. I'm making my point by stating straight facts. The problem is you can't dispute anything I said. Cuz it's all on point. And you know it. Tell me. How exactly am I throwing dirt on Vazquez when everything I said was true?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt's fucking irritating dealing with muthafukkas who have to lie to try and make there fighter look good. You were better off saying you were ignorant to the situation instead of embarrassing yourself like this. Vazquez won the WBO Super Bantamweight title when he beat Sonsona. It was a vacant title. Juan Manuel Lopez gave it up when he moved up in weight. Sonsona never held that title. Only title he ever held was the WBO Super Flyweight title. Sonsona moved up 2 weight classes to fight Vazquez. Vazquez and his people did everything they could to avoid fighting Lopez. They waited till he moved up and than went for the title. Instead of having him face the next highest ranked opponent, The WBO which everybody knows headquarters in Puerto Rico looked out for Vazquez and let him get a away with fighting a fighter who was moving up in weight. Not one. But two weight classes. So don't give me this bullshit how Vazquez does shit the hard way. Cuz he doesn't. Facts are facts. He too has benefited from his famous daddies name and has been granted favors he wouldn't of gotten with a different last nameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I cannot believe that you would actually throw the dirt on Vazquez that actually should be thrown on baby Chavez. Scratch that..... I do believe it. This is ONE argument you won't win with tough 'hood talk. If the situations were reversed, you'd be having a field day with this one.... and you'd be right. But since you KNOW you're defending the wrong fighter here... you resort to your trash-talking tactics. Really VD...... all it does is undermine whatever credibility you have.
I'll assure you of one thing: At the end of the day, Vazquez Jr. will amount to more, accomplish more, and be looked up to more.... than the babied, coddled, over-protected Baby Chavez, with his doting father hovering close by, making sure his young chick doesn't go anywhere NEAR someone with a pulse.
C'mon..... surprise me by admitting you're on the wrong side this time.
;)
There is only one undisputed fact here. Vazquez Jr, with half the fights Chavez Jr has, has already taken on an ex-champion, and narrowly lost. What motivated them to take the fight isn't what's important. What's important was the resulting level of competition.
Meanwhile, on a subject you're so strangely quiet about, Baby Chavez has yet to come within shouting distance of a worthy opponent. And what's worse... Overbearing Papa Chavez isn't showing any signs of allowing his baby boy to face any serious challengers (any that can bang, anyway).
We can go back and forth on this all day. Vazquez's opponents vs. Baby Chavez's opponents. But the fact remains.... at twice the fights Vazquez has, the Baby has faced lesser opposition. Tell me, Baby Chavez has fought over 40 times, and still has a bloated record based on bums. What did his list of opponents look like when he had only fought the same amount as Vazquez has now? Answer: an even more disgusting list of bums.
;)
Chavez Sr was like 5 times the fighter Vazquez Sr was. So the Chavez name carries way more weight than the Vazauez name. So if lil Vazquez wants to make some decent money he needs to fight the best. Cuz no one gonna watch him otherwise. Chavez Jr is gonna be watched no matter what.
You listen to Chavez talk and you hear the same thing. "I need to get better". "I'm learning a lot". Blah, blah, blah. He's not a finished product. And he knows it. He's never claimed to be the best. Vazquez on the other hand considers himself the best in his divsion. Good for him. Now go prove it. I got no problem with fighters thinking there the best. As long as they go out and prove it. Or at least tried to prove it. It's the reason I always came down on UK fighters like Calzaghe and Haye. They would run there mouths about being the best. Than go out and fight the plumber who had just fixed there sink. Chavez don't talk like that. So he gets a little slack
Well... I don't know about Chavez Sr being 5 times the fighter Vazquez Sr was.... but he certainly fought 5 times as many bums, especially early in his career (100 wins doesn't impress me when the first 50 were drunken bums).
;)
However, this isn't about the dads.... it's about the sons. Forget what Vazquez Jr says and what Chavez Jr says. In your desperation, you're grasping at straws. It's what's on the books as far as wins and losses, and quality of opposition. And the inescapable fact is (and one you've yet to answer head on), that Baby Chavez, with twice the number of fights as Vazquez Jr, doesn't have the same quality of opposition. He's more coddled.... by his overbearing dad.
And since when do you (of all people) hold against a fighter that he talks confidently? You expect Vazquez to say "Gee whiz I hope I win".... or "I don't think I belong in the same ring as this other guy"? That's what practically ALL fighters say. You're using these excuses at your convenience. But that's ok..... I know your biased tendencies.
;) ;)
This is my point, VD.... pure and simple:
If the situation was reversed... if Chavez Jr had 20-something fights and had fought the opposition Vazquez Jr has... and if Vazquez Jr had his 40-something fights and was being handled like Baby Chavez is..... you'd be thumping your chest and beating down anyone who didn't agree that Vazquez Jr (in this case) was the "Coddled One", and less deserving than Chavez Jr.
But it's not. It's the way it is, and yet you STILL somehow stick with your man (or babied man, in this case). Deep inside, you know we're right.... but you're bias toward "our" fighters (yes.... you do have one) doesn't let you admit that you may just be wrong.
You see.... I'm not like that. I'm the first one to admit when one of my fighters f*cks up, or is less deserving in some way. I'm not saying I'm totally without bias... that would be ridiculous. All of us have some bias toward our own fighters.
[QUOTE=ElTerribleMorales;1028666]Well one is a HOF and top 20 in the greatest fighters ever. The other is notQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Well... I don't know about Chavez Sr being 5 times the fighter Vazquez Sr was.... but he certainly fought 5 times as many bums, especially early in his career (100 wins doesn't impress me when the first 50 were drunken bums).
The issue with Vazquez isn't even what he's done or hasn't done. I actually don't mind Vazquez. I just don't give him credit for losing to Arce. You guys think he deserves credit. But at the same time wouldn't answer the question of how much credit does he really deserve for losing to a fighter he only fought cuz he thought he was shot? Yes it was a good fight. Yes he gave his all. But if he knew this was the Arce he was gonna fight going in he would of never fought him. Hard to give any credit in that situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
[QUOTE=Violent Demise;1029427]what the hell are you gonna say when Donaire ends up being Vazquez Jr's next opponent and Chavez Jr ends up fighting someone along the lines of Yory Boy Campas :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesWell one is a HOF and top 20 in the greatest fighters ever. The other is notQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe fact that Vazquez is willing to step in against the guy who's ACTUALLY the champion (Sonsona) is already more than what Chavez Jr has done in his 50+ fights, Vazquez didn't need Uncle Sulaiman to rip the rightful champ (Martinez) off just so that the silver spoon Chavez Jr could walk around calling himself a "champion", IMO JCC Jr should have just kept the Silver Belt it suited him a hell of a lot more... now you answer the question, or you've done doing your daily dose of talking out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Well... I don't know about Chavez Sr being 5 times the fighter Vazquez Sr was.... but he certainly fought 5 times as many bums, especially early in his career (100 wins doesn't impress me when the first 50 were drunken bums).
The issue with Vazquez isn't even what he's done or hasn't done. I actually don't mind Vazquez. I just don't give him credit for losing to Arce. You guys think he deserves credit. But at the same time wouldn't answer the question of how much credit does he really deserve for losing to a fighter he only fought cuz he thought he was shot? Yes it was a good fight. Yes he gave his all. But if he knew this was the Arce he was gonna fight going in he would of never fought him. Hard to give any credit in that situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
That Chavez just beat a fighter with 99 winsQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
funniest thing is you just bashed Burns for beating an "old shot" Katsidis, yet that was a bigger challenge even than anything Julia has doneQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat Chavez just beat a fighter with 99 winsQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Whooo what a night.. Hella drunk right now .. Sup fellas..i just wanted to say one thing before I knockout.. Drum roll please deu gooo deo goo deo goo deo goo
Ricky burns aint shit !
he's a hell of a lot better than JCC JR lolQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
He beat Roman Martinez. So that automatically means he's good right? Nah. Says more about Martinez than it does about Burns if anything. Burns loss to Alex Arthur. That's just about impossible to defendQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe's a hell of a lot better than JCC JR lolQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Roman Martinez himself is a B level fighter just like Burns with both being tough yet limited..
I'd say Chavez Jr is a better fighter than Roman..
But Vazquez Jr is cool, even though Arce is his daddy..
Korean killa, Ji Hoon Kim wanted a piece of Roman but nothing but crickets from the guy. He didn't want none of the Volcano..
The killa is back in January on ESPN against undefeated, Uzbekistan , Alisher Rahimov...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_98DcUWQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7-Mq0R3s8U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNiw_8WXf_s&feature=related
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
"Korean killa"
:vd:
You do realize Kim at his best was only B fighter himself, right? And he's no longer at his best. The Volcano is pretty much a Bic lighter now a days.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
The Volcano is a lower B level fighter but an exciting one. Nobody ever said he is elite but he can brawl with the best of them and brings drama. Keep him away from boxers but the rest like mercito gesta, molina and lundy would get fucked up. Throw burns in that too.