Offensively, he probably never was, defensively (and by that I mean likelyhood of getting dropped) he still is!Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Vitali, looked old and ponderous against Del Boy though.
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Offensively, he probably never was, defensively (and by that I mean likelyhood of getting dropped) he still is!Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Vitali, looked old and ponderous against Del Boy though.
Yep and if you look at posts when that fight was about to happen I said it wont be that Vitali has got old overnight it will be that hes finally fighting someone who can work all night and has good defence/upper body movement. Hes always struggled with people who can take it to him, they both have.
If Wlad and Vitali fought, Vitali would win. If any of his shots got through Wlad goes down and some of his shots would get through.
Also, I saidweaker, not better. Wlad has been KO'd and dropped loads of times, he is the weaker brother and he was Hayes best chance. Vitali would walk through Haye who would do his usual skirting round the ring to avoid taking a shot because he worries about his chin and hasno real defence other than running sideways.
I think there is a world of difference between Wlad and Vitali at this stage. Chin aside(which is big I'll grant you) Wlad is a MUCH better fighter imo, otherwise Chisora and Haye's respective showings against the brothers would hold a lot more water. I don't see any reason Haye would be so reluctant to engage with Derek, and assuming he does should come out the better for it. He's a much better athlete and more dynamic fighter, but it will be telling whether he can hurt Chisora early on. As a said, it's an interesting fight so who cares what the implications are!:cool:
Derek is far more skilled at defence. Haye got dropped hard by a super middle (Mock), Thompson, Mormeck, Barrett and not just because he has a crap chin but because his defence is crap. He willstruggle to land anything clean on Chisora and wont have the massive size and strength that Fury, Helenius and Vitali all had to keep him off.
If you actually watch half of those knock downs he was slipping on ring advertising etc.
Some people think wlad has a decent right hand... Haye caught it a few times. His chin as a hw is an unknown quantity.
Vitali didn't look old overnight. It's been seeable over his last 4-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I know youre game, sometimes i comment on threads with an outrageous point of view just to get some debate too :)
Haye was fighting on the same surface as his opponents so if hes always slipping, he either has crap balance or just isnt strong enough. Fuck me, Wlad had him flopping embarrisingly all over the shop in their fight, to the point the ref had to warn Haye for it!
Just like Vitali, Haye will get a shock at having a young (for once not a 40 year old), strong, fit fighter that will push him and make him work and tire. Then that power will mean nothing after the 4th round as he will have no steam on it and Chisora will just pour it on and work him over and stop Haye (probably faking an injury in the corner rather than go out on his shield) around the 8th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyIncognito76
you would rather watch hopkins than this fight?
At world level only ward and wlad are less exciting to watch than hopkins
I've got Chisora in this one. Great head movement, nice active style compared with Hayes "1 punch at a time" because he's scared of his chin letting him down. Only problem with Chisora is that he never shoots a proper right hand..it's always a chopping one so he doesn't get enough power. I still think he at least outworks Haye.
Same old shit from Ross. I hate Haye so wont give him credit for anything. Hilarious.
The only fighters Haye has ever had trouble landing on were the two giants. Everyone his size has been rocked and hurt.
It's possible Chisora could take Haye's power, he has shown a granite chin to date, and put him under serious pressure as the fight goes on. But equally Chisora will have never absorbed the explosive early bombs he will against Haye.
Good fight in my book.
This fight was always going to happen. I must say that I find the hysterical handwringing in the national press pretty full of hypocrisy. Boxing has always been crazy, amoral and dangerous.
Imagine a sport where someone like Don King can cheat and threaten his clients for 2 decades, imagine a sport that has a history of fixing fights and organising who the next 'champion' should be, imagine a sport that somehow allows any idiot to declare someone 'world' champion (then introduce Chamion Emeritus, Gold Champion, Super Champion etc).
Remember Riddick Bowe hitting people at press conferences, remember Tyson attacking Lewis and threatening to eat his children, remember Jack Dempsey hitting Jess Willard with a coach bolt, Panama Al Lewis loading his figher's gloves, Antonio Margarito cheting with his wraps, Shane Moseley, James Toney and Evander Holyfield being caught with performance enhancing drugs, Errol Christie and Mark kaylor fighting in the street.
The show goes on .......
It's good hype for a fight between someone who never beat anybody got at heavyweight yet make millions out of a non-performance in his biggest fight, and someone who has chronically undertrained and failed to eke the most out of their albeit limited talent.
Boxing is the entertainment game
Some great points guys cheers. Its on Boxnation so i wont be seeing it anyway, as for a result, Haye on points and possibly another world title shot.
For fuck sakes your so blinded by Hayes bullshit! He hasnt fought any young contenders like Adamek or Areola. All hes done at heavy is beat Valuev and Chagaev did it better anyway. Ruiz was retired, Harrison is Harrison and had never even challenged at world level. Bonin was stopped by Harrison! Barrett had just been KOd by Cliff Couser in 2 rounds but still decked Haye! Then his only other fight at heavy he lost every round by running away then embarassed himself by blaming a stubbed little toe! Even Lennox Lewis took the piss out of him for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
honest? you can have some time to thin about it if you wantQuote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
You make some very good points Ross. I was blind but now I can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossFor fuck sakes your so blinded by Hayes bullshit! He hasnt fought any young contenders like Adamek or Areola. All hes done at heavy is beat Valuev and Chagaev did it better anyway. Ruiz was retired, Harrison is Harrison and had never even challenged at world level. Bonin was stopped by Harrison! Barrett had just been KOd by Cliff Couser in 2 rounds but still decked Haye! Then his only other fight at heavy he lost every round by running away then embarassed himself by blaming a stubbed little toe! Even Lennox Lewis took the piss out of him for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Haye has never done a single good thing in his whole career. Overrated ability. Fact. Overrated power. Fact. Overrated record. Fact. No chin. Fact. No heart. Fact.
Through your superb, totally unbiased opinion of Haye I have just had £1000 on Chisora by KO at 9/2.
I thank you.
Haye's still being allowed to fight for money?
When you generate huge sums of money everytime you fight it's not a case of being allowed it's about being cherished. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Chisora:
"He glassed me!"
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/im...Xi97brtQksR3UQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWhen you generate huge sums of money everytime you fight it's not a case of being allowed it's about being cherished. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
"Cherished"?!?!?
LMFAO!!! What a loser.
For most normal people, it's actually about being "morbidly curious."
You're a riot, bro. Keep up the good work.
;D
I hope Chisora beats him up and then glasses him while he's down. It would be funny and I am all for savage humour.
I thought the cherished thing was a really good line actually. Cherished isn't quite the exact word to make it a perfect quote but I can't think of a better one so it'll do for me.
I mean it!!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I know youre game, sometimes i comment on threads with an outrageous point of view just to get some debate too :)
I have never wavered in my lack of appreciation for David Haye.
Cherished by the people that make huge money from boxing. Why are you even talking about him? You hate him yet enter every other thread that has his name. Think about it. You shouldn't be giving this man the time of day.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterWhen you generate huge sums of money everytime you fight it's not a case of being allowed it's about being cherished. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
"Cherished"?!?!?
LMFAO!!! What a loser.
For most normal people, it's actually about being "morbidly curious."
You're a riot, bro. Keep up the good work.
;D
Boxing is not about ability, records, bravery or any other shit you can think of. It's purely about how much money you generate. If you sell shit loads you make shit loads. If you sell shit, regardless of your ability, you make shit. Fact.
The fact that mad Del boy claimed he had been glassed, and then despite seeing actual photographic and video evidence to the contrary, people are willing to regurgitate the same nonsense, simply reinforces the illogical biased hatred of Haye and the impression that he is both an overrated coward and a brutal ruthless street fighter. Make your mind up guys. If Chisora had been glasses his face would be a mess. To be glassed or bottled implies a concious and savage utilisation of non safety glass in an attempt to disfigure and immobilise a victim. What would you do if a guy who had been threatening to break your jaw marched up to you and got right in your face? Put your drink down, roll up your sleeves and challenge him to step outside for a gentlemanly bout of fisticuffs? Personally I would try to avoid him but if he marched up to me in a bar like that, I would have to twat him. They are both plonkers but it is a great match up.
Haye will win a decision against Chisora who has a solid chin but no big punches to worry David. This fight is a disgrace to boxing and should not be allowed. I will be watching on Box Nation and hating every minute of it.
Haye knock out
I hope Haye gets back to boxing try and get a fight with vitali as I generally think he would beat him,
Not because I 'think Haye is the saviour of heavyweight boxing'
But because the last 5 or so years theres been no action in the heavyweight division until in my view Haye stepped in
What a load of shit! Haye had a bottle in his hand and he threw a punch with the Bottle in his hand and the is a fucking photo to prove it! Haye even says in the press conference "thebest thing to come out your mouth is my fist, oh, and a bottle". I hope you lot remember all this bull about Haye winning when this fight is over;) there is a reason he has only talked about fighting good heavys rather than actually doing it;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
The same people who are picking a Chisora win will be the same people who fought Wlad would quickly destroy Haye. :rolleyes:
It's too hard for them to seperate personalities from the ring.
Chisora looked better against Vitali then just about anybody I can recall, I believe he would give Haye fits, but Haye would likely win a decision.
Haye and Chisora seem to genuinely hate each other which usually makes for good fights. I figure there will be other fights between these 2 prior to the one in the ring. Several at the press conferences, and one at the weigh-in, et al. :hair_up:
Intriguing fight. However, I will still continue to make manifestations till they make Adamek-Haye. That's something I would REALLY want to see.
Yeah, those folks sure had to eat their words when instead Haye refused to engage, slipped and fell throughout the fight and lost every round.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaYeah, those folks sure had to eat their words when instead Haye refused to engage, slipped and fell throughout the fight and lost every round.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
the line you have quoted from Adams post isnt the important one, the one which you should really read again is
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Of course they didn't have to 'eat their words' :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaYeah, those folks sure had to eat their words when instead Haye refused to engage, slipped and fell throughout the fight and lost every round.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Jesus christ, what planet are you on? The fact is they got it wrong.
My point, which seems to have sailed over your some what empty head is that people's dislike of Haye had a drastic influence on their (wrong) predictions.
I don't think it holds any water to say people got that wrong though, that's the point. No one expected Haye to fight scared after the talking he did, and aside from going 12 rounds he proved to be just as mediocre as even his biggest detractors could've expected. Had he fought to win he may well have been knocked out, having not been means dick all given his tactics in that fight. Were you of the opinion all along that he'd be so negative and simply survive till the bell? I don't recall anyone saying Haye couldn't possibly duplicate the performance Sultan Ibragimov put forth:rolleyes: It seems you want it both ways here, there's nothing wrong with anyone predicting a Chisora win. I don't agree as Haye is much more talented, but if he doesn't actually want to fight this time who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBOf course they didn't have to 'eat their words' :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaYeah, those folks sure had to eat their words when instead Haye refused to engage, slipped and fell throughout the fight and lost every round.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Jesus christ, what planet are you on? The fact is they got it wrong.
My point, which seems to have sailed over your some what empty head is that people's dislike of Haye had a drastic influence on their (wrong) predictions.
They grossly over estimated the beatdown wlad would put on Haye.
The way Haye fought against Valuev should have been enough for people to see how Haye would fight... Wlad isn 't known for taking it to even outsized opponents either. But no, the majority of people picking against Haye still predicted a brutal, early knockout, despite both fighter's recent fights alluding on the contrary.
They predicted what they wanted to see because they could not get passed haye's personality and this fight will be no different.
Although I probably did predict Haye would get stopped it was in lieu of him seeming determined to press the fight, which as it turned out was far more grossly overrated than anything else people expected. I really didn't care on a personal level, but in the entire lead up he ran his mouth offf insisting he wouldn't do exactly what he did, I just have a hard time giving him any credit for that.
He doesn't, but I think I've explained why people thought he would actually give Wlad less caution than he gave fucking valuev and it had nothing to do with their assessment of either guy's boxing abilities and styles and 100% to do with prefight hype, personalities and their own wishful thinking of wanting to see Haye hurt - exactly what we are seeing here
I wonder what Stacey Solomon is doing this time around...
Just checked my Facebook... West Ham fans all getting worked up coz Haye is 100% Millwall.
Could get ugly in the Bobby Moore stand.
The way some people on here continue to defend David Haye is beyond belief. And anyone who dares say anything to the contrary is immediately labeled a “hater”. Let’s just state some facts (to use one of these people’s favorite words).
Fact #1: Haye talked a truckload of shit before the fight. How he was going to destroy Wlad… how Wlad wasn’t worthy… how he (Haye) was so much better… blah, blah, blah. Any disputing that? No, I didn’t think so. Let’s move on.
Fact #2: Haye did not even attempt to make a fight of it. He stayed away the entire fight… never brought the fight to Wlad… even went so far as to blame a “toe” for his misfortunes. Any disputing THAT? If so… you’re blind and ignorant about boxing. Now, here’s where Haye f*cked up. You’ve got all the time in the world to come up with a feasible excuse after your disgraceful showing. He could’ve blamed his shoulder… a knee… whatever. But his toe?!?!? Hey… I know toe injuries can be painful (chuckle)… but you’re in a world heavyweight championship fight, for crying out loud. Suck it up, dude.
Fact #3: No… Wlad didn’t come out with guns blazing, going for the knockout. Why should he? He wasn’t the one doing the shit talking. He’s not the one trying to wrestle the championship belt away from the other. He normally fights cautiously. Everyone knows that. So why try to slide the blame button over to Wlad’s side? It’s not gonna work. Haye gets ALL the blame, and then some.
You know the worst part? Blind Haye fans must hold a world record for the biggest double standard. Had anyone but the “former British heavyweight hope” done the same thing, these same fans would be going at him like piranhas, slobbering at the mouth. But because it was their beloved David Haye that did it… somehow they find a way to defend him. I suspect there’s a lucrative career in law for someone in that bunch.
Finally, the worst argument of all. The one that says that we should’ve all known better. That Haye took us all for ride. He built up the fight… he generated revenues… he generated interest in the heavyweight division again. Give me a f*cking break, people. Really? Is that your argument? How pathetic. So it’s ok for a fighter to willfully deceive the boxing public, and like a snake-oil salesman bilk people out of their hard-earned money with the promise of a good show, only to put forth a disgraceful display of cowardice unparalleled in boxing history? The joke’s on us? (Well, not on me… I didn’t pay for the fight). Wow… give yourselves a round of applause. That’s what boxing’s all about, right? Bullshit.