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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
No you're confusing your own perceptions with that of the majority. Just because you don't like him, and a few hundred boxing fans, that post on internet forums don't like him, it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him.
Floyd's fights are sold to hundreds of countries around the world. You don't have to be a golf fan to admire Tiger Woods or a Tennis fan to admire Federer. Most fans just recognise their brilliance.
Because Floyd is not the "role model" you believe he should be, it doesn't make him unpopular to the masses. Thousands turned out in Engalnd to watch him train when he visited. He would sell out a stadium in Britain if he fought here, regardless of the opponent.
Maybe he's not the "all American hero," but he sure isn't lacking in popularity.
1.
My thread.....
my point. Simple as.
2. Please produce irrefutable evidence that, in your words:
"... it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him." "Because I said so" doesn't count as evidence.
3. While you're at it, please produce irrefutable evidence, or legitimate authority that enables you to speak for
the perceptions of the majority.
I've already given you the facts and figures.
A chimpanzee could work out that a man with
3.4 million twitter followers is seriously popular.
Oh wait... those millions all hate him, right? :rolleyes:
A logical adult would produce a poll to back up his statement that the vast majority of fans like Floyd Mayweather.
An infant...
or a chimpanzee, to use your analogy... would produce Twitter numbers to back up his claim.
Below is a list of top Twitter followings:
Twitter top 100 most followed - Twitter Counter
So using your warped logic, the vast majority of people would then like Britney Spears and Rihanna, based on Twitter following, right? After all, they have a hell of a lot more Twitter following than Mayweather.
Get back to me when you can legitimately answer my question.
Otherwise, quit wasting my time.
;)
I've already given you numbers and reasons why the majority like Floyd. (I am not going to keep repeating myself. If you can't grasp it you can't grasp it.)
Think about the twitter figures you've posted for Rihanna and Britney Spears, now equate that kind of popularity to boxing. Floyd is head and shoulders above every other boxer in the popularity stakes. Just like global pop stars are head and shoulders above Floyd.
Far from being "warped" logic, it's just common sense.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
No you're confusing your own perceptions with that of the majority. Just because you don't like him, and a few hundred boxing fans, that post on internet forums don't like him, it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him.
Floyd's fights are sold to hundreds of countries around the world. You don't have to be a golf fan to admire Tiger Woods or a Tennis fan to admire Federer. Most fans just recognise their brilliance.
Because Floyd is not the "role model" you believe he should be, it doesn't make him unpopular to the masses. Thousands turned out in Engalnd to watch him train when he visited. He would sell out a stadium in Britain if he fought here, regardless of the opponent.
Maybe he's not the "all American hero," but he sure isn't lacking in popularity.
1.
My thread.....
my point. Simple as.
2. Please produce irrefutable evidence that, in your words:
"... it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him." "Because I said so" doesn't count as evidence.
3. While you're at it, please produce irrefutable evidence, or legitimate authority that enables you to speak for
the perceptions of the majority.
I've already given you the facts and figures.
A chimpanzee could work out that a man with
3.4 million twitter followers is seriously popular.
Oh wait... those millions all hate him, right? :rolleyes:
A logical adult would produce a poll to back up his statement that the vast majority of fans like Floyd Mayweather.
An infant...
or a chimpanzee, to use your analogy... would produce Twitter numbers to back up his claim.
Below is a list of top Twitter followings:
Twitter top 100 most followed - Twitter Counter
So using your warped logic, the vast majority of people would then like Britney Spears and Rihanna, based on Twitter following, right? After all, they have a hell of a lot more Twitter following than Mayweather.
Get back to me when you can legitimately answer my question.
Otherwise, quit wasting my time.
;)
I've already given you numbers and reasons why the majority like Floyd. (I am not going to keep repeating myself. If you can't grasp it you can't grasp it.)
Think about the twitter figures you've posted for Rihanna and Britney Spears, now equate that kind of popularity to boxing. Floyd is head and shoulders above every other boxer in the popularity stakes. Just like global pop stars are head and shoulders above Floyd.
Far from being "warped" logic, it's just common sense.
I'll accept your inability to back up your claim with legitimate numbers, or polls, as an admission of your ignorance on the subject.
Thanks for posting.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
The bird who won there only medal at the london games probably...
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
No you're confusing your own perceptions with that of the majority. Just because you don't like him, and a few hundred boxing fans, that post on internet forums don't like him, it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him.
Floyd's fights are sold to hundreds of countries around the world. You don't have to be a golf fan to admire Tiger Woods or a Tennis fan to admire Federer. Most fans just recognise their brilliance.
Because Floyd is not the "role model" you believe he should be, it doesn't make him unpopular to the masses. Thousands turned out in Engalnd to watch him train when he visited. He would sell out a stadium in Britain if he fought here, regardless of the opponent.
Maybe he's not the "all American hero," but he sure isn't lacking in popularity.
1.
My thread.....
my point. Simple as.
2. Please produce irrefutable evidence that, in your words:
"... it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him." "Because I said so" doesn't count as evidence.
3. While you're at it, please produce irrefutable evidence, or legitimate authority that enables you to speak for
the perceptions of the majority.
I've already given you the facts and figures.
A chimpanzee could work out that a man with
3.4 million twitter followers is seriously popular.
Oh wait... those millions all hate him, right? :rolleyes:
A logical adult would produce a poll to back up his statement that the vast majority of fans like Floyd Mayweather.
An infant...
or a chimpanzee, to use your analogy... would produce Twitter numbers to back up his claim.
Below is a list of top Twitter followings:
Twitter top 100 most followed - Twitter Counter
So using your warped logic, the vast majority of people would then like Britney Spears and Rihanna, based on Twitter following, right? After all, they have a hell of a lot more Twitter following than Mayweather.
Get back to me when you can legitimately answer my question.
Otherwise, quit wasting my time.
;)
I've already given you numbers and reasons why the majority like Floyd. (I am not going to keep repeating myself. If you can't grasp it you can't grasp it.)
Think about the twitter figures you've posted for Rihanna and Britney Spears, now equate that kind of popularity to boxing. Floyd is head and shoulders above every other boxer in the popularity stakes. Just like global pop stars are head and shoulders above Floyd.
Far from being "warped" logic, it's just common sense.
I'll accept your inability to back up your claim with legitimate numbers, or polls, as an admission of your ignorance on the subject.
Thanks for posting.
And I'll accept your inability to comprehend the figures and basic logic i've provided as an admission of your lack of common sense.
Thanks.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
You're a hardcore fan that doesn't buy PPVs, like the majority of boxing forum posters. So where do the millions of PPV buys come from? Obviously casual fans. These aren't people spending everyday scouring forums, they are fans that buy into "stars"... which Mayweather is clearly the biggest. So when he fights they want to see him.
For sure lots will buy his fights to root against him. Anyone that popular has that. But you don't become the biggest star in boxing because the majority don't like you. That's just ridiculous.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
And I'll accept my obvious lack of common sense as well.
Thanks.
Fixed it for you. ;)
(Note to self: Remember to ask Saddo about his declining standards for choosing his forum mods.)
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
And I'll accept my obvious lack of common sense as well.
Thanks.
Fixed it for you. ;)
(Note to self: Remember to ask Saddo about his declining standards for choosing his forum mods.)
And i'll ask Saddo to check out your post history to see the amount of people you argue with and insult on this board.
Please don't ruin yet another thread.
Thanks.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Kevin Johnson?!?! Yeah right!
Who are the last two dudes??
If that "Hardcore" person is Amir Mansour you can go right ahead and x him off this list because he's too old, too small, and hasn't fought anyone worth a damn.
I'm pragmatic about my picks: Mitchell, Wilder, Hanks, & Jennings have the best shots.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
The last dude is Tor Hamer, the prizefighter winner, he was pretty impressive in that
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
The last dude is Tor Hamer, the prizefighter winner, he was pretty impressive in that
:-\ ....doesn't look much like a "Tor" does he?
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
And I'll accept my obvious lack of common sense as well.
Thanks.
Fixed it for you. ;)
(Note to self: Remember to ask Saddo about his declining standards for choosing his forum mods.)
And i'll ask Saddo to check out your post history to see the amount of people you argue with and insult on this board.
Please don't ruin yet another thread.
Thanks.
Go ahead. Maybe you'll even get him to ban me.
Fact is..... you're an abrasive, cyber-abusive twerp who hardly gets along with anybody yourself. @Violent Demise and I have only one thing in common in life. We both dislike your arrogant ass. We dislike each other also, but that's another story.
And if we're going to count the people that "argue with" and "insult" other people on this board..... start by looking in the mirror. Then I suggest you have a calculator handy, because I doubt you can count that high.
Stop trolling my threads. You dislike me because I ridicule your obsession with the likes of Princess Naseem.... and probably because you don't like opinionated non-British characters. That's YOUR problem.
Every time you come into one of my topics intending to ridicule me with your cute "one-liners"..... I'll respond in kind and expose you for the ignorant, condescending asshole you really are.
:fyou:
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
The last dude is Tor Hamer, the prizefighter winner, he was pretty impressive in that
:-\ ....doesn't look much like a "Tor" does he?
He sure don't. I was expecting a big white east european dude when first seeing his name ;D
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
And I'll accept my obvious lack of common sense as well.
Thanks.
Fixed it for you. ;)
(Note to self: Remember to ask Saddo about his declining standards for choosing his forum mods.)
And i'll ask Saddo to check out your post history to see the amount of people you argue with and insult on this board.
Please don't ruin yet another thread.
Thanks.
Go ahead. Maybe you'll even get him to ban me.
Fact is..... you're an abrasive, cyber-abusive twerp who hardly gets along with anybody yourself. @
Violent Demise and I have only one thing in common in life. We both dislike your arrogant ass. We dislike each other also, but that's another story.
And if we're going to count the people that "argue with" and "insult" other people on this board..... start by looking in the mirror. Then I suggest you have a calculator handy, because I doubt you can count that high.
Stop trolling my threads. You dislike me because I ridicule your obsession with the likes of Princess Naseem.... and probably because you don't like opinionated non-British characters. That's YOUR problem.
Every time you come into one of my topics intending to ridicule me with your cute "one-liners"..... I'll respond in kind and expose you for the ignorant, condescending asshole you really are.
:fyou:
Tito, please stick to the thread topic. I have already asked you politely.
If you have a problem with me there are other boards.
Thanks.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Kevin Johnson?!?! Yeah right!
Who are the last two dudes??
If that "Hardcore" person is Amir Mansour you can go right ahead and x him off this list because he's too old, too small, and hasn't fought anyone worth a damn.
I'm pragmatic about my picks: Mitchell, Wilder, Hanks, & Jennings have the best shots.
Im not disagreeing im just giving e'g's.
http://www.boraoentertainment.com/KelvinPrice123.jpg
http://www.snac.com/wp-content/galle...gallery-18.jpg
http://www.proboxing-fans.com/wp-con...lik-scott2.jpg
http://static.boxrec.com/wiki/b/b4/John_Chapman.jpg
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
You're a hardcore fan that doesn't buy PPVs, like the majority of boxing forum posters. So where do the millions of PPV buys come from? Obviously casual fans. These aren't people spending everyday scouring forums, they are fans that buy into "stars"... which Mayweather is clearly the biggest. So when he fights they want to see him.
For sure lots will buy his fights to root against him. Anyone that popular has that. But you don't become the biggest star in boxing because the majority don't like you. That's just ridiculous.
Two sides. Just as many people hated Ali and Tyson that liked him so I'm not sure disdain can be counted out. And you can go as far back as Jack Johnson and find the same thing from live gates.
Dislike imo plays pretty heavily in the viewing of many fights and fighters and is a factor in their stardom.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
You're a hardcore fan that doesn't buy PPVs, like the majority of boxing forum posters. So where do the millions of PPV buys come from? Obviously casual fans. These aren't people spending everyday scouring forums, they are fans that buy into "stars"... which Mayweather is clearly the biggest. So when he fights they want to see him.
For sure lots will buy his fights to root against him. Anyone that popular has that. But you don't become the biggest star in boxing because the majority don't like you. That's just ridiculous.
Two sides. Just as many people hated Ali and Tyson that liked him so I'm not sure disdain can be counted out. And you can go as far back as Jack Johnson and find the same thing from live gates.
Dislike imo plays pretty heavily in the viewing of many fights and fighters and is a factor in their stardom.
Exactly. Tyson at his peak was as watched as any heavyweight. But you'd never put him in the same category as say... a Sugar Ray Leonard. Strictly based on like/dislike. Same with Floyd. There's a definite line between a mega-star boxer who has a good or at least neutral image outside the ring..... and a mega-star who's in and out of jail, convicted of rape, spouse abuse, etc.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
So @IamInuit who do you see in the horizon as being, not only the next U.S. boxing star..... but being generally liked as well? That's a tough question, because it seems the trend lately is toward the Tyson, Judah, Mayweather, Broner types. I think Berto has the personality.... but he seems to have dropped off the map.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
You're a hardcore fan that doesn't buy PPVs, like the majority of boxing forum posters. So where do the millions of PPV buys come from? Obviously casual fans. These aren't people spending everyday scouring forums, they are fans that buy into "stars"... which Mayweather is clearly the biggest. So when he fights they want to see him.
For sure lots will buy his fights to root against him. Anyone that popular has that. But you don't become the biggest star in boxing because the majority don't like you. That's just ridiculous.
Two sides. Just as many people hated Ali and Tyson that liked him so I'm not sure disdain can be counted out. And you can go as far back as Jack Johnson and find the same thing from live gates.
Dislike imo plays pretty heavily in the viewing of many fights and fighters and is a factor in their stardom.
Yes I agree, that's pretty obvious, I have already made this point too. However, I think there's a big difference between what "hardcore" boxing fans percieve and the casual sports fan.
The more popular you are the more haters/fans you'll have. That goes for just about any walk of life.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Kevin Johnson?!?! Yeah right!
Who are the last two dudes??
If that "Hardcore" person is Amir Mansour you can go right ahead and x him off this list because he's too old, too small, and hasn't fought anyone worth a damn.
I'm pragmatic about my picks: Mitchell, Wilder, Hanks, & Jennings have the best shots.
Do you really think any of these have a chance at becoming household names a la De La Hoya, or a Ray Leonard?
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Not sold on broner, He may be beaten by the first elite fighter he faces. The best 'win' in his career is an extremely dubious decision over Ponce De Leon, who is about as wild and unskilled as you'll ever see at the elite level. All the calls for future P4P greatness are deluded.
Put him against Gamboa and he will look like a bum.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Kevin Johnson?!?! Yeah right!
Who are the last two dudes??
If that "Hardcore" person is Amir Mansour you can go right ahead and x him off this list because he's too old, too small, and hasn't fought anyone worth a damn.
I'm pragmatic about my picks: Mitchell, Wilder, Hanks, & Jennings have the best shots.
Do you really think any of these have a chance at becoming household names
a la De La Hoya, or a Ray Leonard?
They didn't get the boost those guys got from Olympic Gold, but yeah I'm certain that 1 of the lot of them will be a significant title holder. I'm thinking more Wilder because he's younger, has the upper hand in his God given physical traits, he's developing slowly, and he's got big time power. I dont' see any of them beating Wlad or Vitali, but a Price or Fury...yeah I could totally see that. Once the heavyweight division is "Klitschko-less" then the titles are all up for grabs and I don't see any single fighter that has a huge advantage over the lot of them.
The heavyweight champion will ALWAYS mean something
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Kevin Johnson?!?! Yeah right!
Who are the last two dudes??
If that "Hardcore" person is Amir Mansour you can go right ahead and x him off this list because he's too old, too small, and hasn't fought anyone worth a damn.
I'm pragmatic about my picks: Mitchell, Wilder, Hanks, & Jennings have the best shots.
Do you really think any of these have a chance at becoming household names
a la De La Hoya, or a Ray Leonard?
They didn't get the boost those guys got from Olympic Gold, but yeah I'm certain that 1 of the lot of them will be a significant title holder. I'm thinking more Wilder because he's younger, has the upper hand in his God given physical traits, he's developing slowly, and he's got big time power. I dont' see any of them beating Wlad or Vitali, but a Price or Fury...yeah I could totally see that. Once the heavyweight division is "Klitschko-less" then the titles are all up for grabs and I don't see any single fighter that has a huge advantage over the lot of them.
The heavyweight champion will ALWAYS mean something
Precisely. I've said as much in other threads. Boxing generally goes as the HW division goes. When a new American HW champion emerges, it will bring back casual fans in droves. Of course, if the champion happens to be a "not Tyson" or "not Floyd" human being.... the following will be even greater.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Maybe Adrian Broner. Jose Benavidez looks very impressive too but obviously a long way to go.
So you don't rate Shawn Porter, Shawn Estrada, or Demitrius Andrade?
I think Porter is a solid fighter and will at least win an alphabet belt. I'm not sure that he's going to be a PPV fighter. The other two I don't think I've seen fight.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
So @
IamInuit who do you see in the horizon as being, not only the next U.S. boxing star..... but being generally liked as well? That's a tough question, because it seems the trend lately is toward the Tyson, Judah, Mayweather, Broner types. I think Berto has the personality.... but he seems to have dropped off the map.
Good question. Many seem drawn to the asshole types in sport generally and add fisticuffs to the equation and it kinda fits. Russell Jr seems ok and so does Benavidez. Berto almost seems to nice a guy.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
So @
IamInuit who do you see in the horizon as being, not only the next U.S. boxing star..... but being generally liked as well? That's a tough question, because it seems the trend lately is toward the Tyson, Judah, Mayweather, Broner types. I think Berto has the personality.... but he seems to have dropped off the map.
Good question. Many seem drawn to the asshole types in sport generally and add fisticuffs to the equation and it kinda fits. Russell Jr seems ok and so does Benavidez. Berto almost seems to nice a guy.
But your point is well taken, and at least you seemed to understand the intent of the thread. We're not talking just the boxing part of the equation. We're talking overall personna. I remember Ray Leonard having that squeaky clean image. Olympic gold medalist, all-time boxing great, career defining fights. Why do you think he was so sought after for commercial endorsements as well? How many commercials did Tyson make? Or Mayweather?
When I originally started the thread, the intent was to identify who would be the next Sugar Ray Leonard, if you will. Household name.... good image... etc, etc. I mentioned Pavlik, because at the time he seemed to fit the mold. Humble beginnings... down-to-earth character.... seemingly vast potential. But his star burned out shortly thereafter.... and now the American press is hungry for that next American star who is mostly "universally liked". That alone disqualifies Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
So @
IamInuit who do you see in the horizon as being, not only the next U.S. boxing star..... but being generally liked as well? That's a tough question, because it seems the trend lately is toward the Tyson, Judah, Mayweather, Broner types. I think Berto has the personality.... but he seems to have dropped off the map.
Good question. Many seem drawn to the asshole types in sport generally and add fisticuffs to the equation and it kinda fits. Russell Jr seems ok and so does Benavidez. Berto almost seems to nice a guy.
But your point is well taken, and at least
you seemed to understand the intent of the thread. We're not talking just the boxing part of the equation. We're talking overall personna. I remember Ray Leonard having that squeaky clean image. Olympic gold medalist, all-time boxing great, career defining fights. Why do you think he was so sought after for commercial endorsements as well? How many commercials did Tyson make? Or Mayweather?
When I originally started the thread, the intent was to identify who would be
the next Sugar Ray Leonard, if you will. Household name.... good image... etc, etc. I mentioned Pavlik, because at the time he seemed to fit the mold. Humble beginnings... down-to-earth character.... seemingly vast potential. But his star burned out shortly thereafter.... and now the American press is hungry for that next American star who is mostly "universally liked". That alone disqualifies Floyd Mayweather Jr.
I don't know if one of those is out there...anywhere. Manny and Floyd will be remembered most likely for the fight that didn't happen more so then what they accomplished. With Floyd specifically he will in the end be remembered more for what he could have done with that kind of talent. To me he has pretty much taken half his career off. He had the talent and opportunity to seal the deal in future conversations and the inclusion with the likes of Leonard and Robinson but alas he chose cash and inactivity over real legacy. Historians will be indifferent about Mayweather and may even consider him and under achiever after his career has reached its conclusion.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Seth Mitchell is the future.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Seth is a good candidate, and has a few things going for him:
1. He's a HW, which as we all know is the only division for the casual fan.
2. He's an ex-college football player. Some of us cheer for athletes that have turned to boxing relatively late in their lives. It's not like he came out of some slum and the only way out was boxing. He chose boxing because he wanted to.
3. He's extremely likable (i.e. - he's not a scumbag).
4. He's undefeated, and a rising star.
He could meet some serious stumbling blocks along the way... but I definitely root for him.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Joe Hanks is a likeable guy as well, very positive, well spoken, funny, but 100% business in the ring.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Joe Hanks is a likeable guy as well, very positive, well spoken, funny, but 100% business in the ring.
Oh shit! Could this mean we're trending away from the Floyds, Judahs, Tysons and Toneys??
:o
About time!
;D
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
You never know, I mean once upon a time Floyd Mayweather Jr. was a likeable clean cut fighter who wasn't fighting with a chip on his shoulder or whatever...same with Mike Tyson.
We've still got Vernon paris though :(
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Come on Fenster, couldn't you be wrong just this once, please?!
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
He'd rather cut his left nut off with a rusty butter knife, and feed it to his goldfish.
;) :cool:
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
There is a huge Y that seperates hope from hype. Hype comes first. There is alot of talent out there and yes personality sells as much as ability, its a mutual package. Thing is it seems a trend to sell yourself as the villian. Boxing has become very much like 'Wrastlin. People do want to see people lose. I've been there...Whitaker, Mosley, Jones jr, Mayweather but at the same time the skill cannot be denied. We have guys today that have obvious skill, but have literally done nothing...put shovel to dirt or pen to paper wise. They are pushed as product, pre packaged and embrace the Jersey Shores approach to the sport. Yes, think Broner here. Berto had skill but you could see him derailing even while he was winning. He like ALOT of guys have 'hope' and 'hype' pushed ahead of simply mastering the basics and dicipline it will take to have a long telling career. He was never required to fix his mistakes because his hype was constant! Gamboa, Rios etc. They don't fix things they just pack on weight and drop trinkets on the scale. I know..back to American. You have a guy like Andre Ward on the other side who has all the ability and frankly top notch accomplishments but to some its like sitting a glass of sour milk under the nose of a very thirsty public. He's not a character and he's bland as hell, but he's a winner.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Come on Fenster, couldn't you be wrong just this once, please?!
Wrong about what exactly?
I said Floyd is the most popular fighter in boxing based on facts and figures. How can the most watched and followed fighter not be "fan friendly?" Fans clearly love him.
I never called him an "all American hero." But he clearly has more fans than anyone else.
Some of you seem to have lost the point when the distinction between hardcore and casual fans was made. It really isn't that complex, but I think some people struggle to differentiate between the views of the mass public and their own personal perceptions.
If guys like Floyd and Tyson were so hated (50/50), then explain why they were not booed out of the arena at every fight?
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
outspoken
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armyash
I think Broner is more of a gobshite than Mayweather was at the same stage. Mayweather has reached the pinnacle of his sport we have to expect him to be full of himself.
Broner had a tough fight against Ponce de leon (I think) that some people argued he got a gift from the judges, I haven't seen that fight but one judge gave it to him by 8 points. My point is when people said that Mayweather was lucky against Chavez years ago he rematched him and won convincingly. This would have done wonders for his confidence and skills. Broner hasn't done that.
Broner acts like a prick, I don't see him being held in high regard the same as the Mayeather, JMM's and Pacs are held today. I see him becoming unstuck before then, he'll be dragged in to a relentless pressure fight and will give his 0 away.
The way he got on his knee and made it look like he was going to propose to his girlfriend then asked her to brush his hair. What a twat.
*castillo
I stand corrected, can't believe I put Chavez :embarassed:
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
You're right, Spicoli... personality sells as much as ability. Boxing is not wrestling, but unfortunately the same principle applies. Maybe "Money" Mayweather is not such a bad guy deep inside, and he's just using his bad boy personna to sell tickets. He's got the ability to go along with the personality, so good for him. But like IamInuit said and I agree... there's been a slow, steady shift throughout the years where now we expect our heroes to be controversial bad boys. In and out of jail.... etc, etc. To be sure, there's been tremendous fighters (i.e. - stars) that haven't needed any of this B.S. to be universally liked and successful. You mentioned Mosley. There's a good example. Save for his issues with PED use, which a lot of fans won't forgive him for...... Shane always came across as a "good guy." When did you ever see Shane embroiled in a weigh-in push and shove contest?
I keep mentioning Sugar Ray Leonard. Maybe it's because back then... you didn't NEED any of these shenanigans to be popular with the masses. You just had to be good and exciting to watch.
You mentioned Ward. He's a wonderfully gifted fighter, with some impressive wins on this record. Why isn't he a household name, like Floyd? I dunno.... maybe it's the weight division he resides in.... maybe it's the lack of big names around him.... maybe it's his bland personality. Who knows?
Unlike some people here, I don't measure boxers solely on their PPV numbers. It's a matter of personal choice. I'll respect those who choose to use that as a measuring stick.... but I'll stick to my own criteria.
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Sugar Ray Leonard is not a typical character, American or not with which to compare other boxers. His clean cut image, insistence on getting a good education and virtually having to be convinced to turn pro after a glittering amateur career are anything but commonplace amongst his fighting brethren. It is also not necessary for the USA to provide a new boxing superstar for the sport to thrive internationally.
The sad fact is the shallow and dumb money mayweather caricature that Floyd employs is admired and respected by many equally blinkered wannabe flash Harry's who do pay to watch him fight, hoping that he wins and legitimises their own belief that money trumps everything.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
While it's "not necessary for the USA to provide a new boxing superstar for the sport to thrive internationally".... it is necessary in order to raise the popularity of boxing in the US, which is a major player in the global boxing world. Not to mention the country with the biggest financial power in the boxing world. But you and Fenster probably need for someone other than myself to say that..... so I'll invite some of the other posters, such as Lyle, who you probably believe more than myself, to say the same thing.
I never claimed Sugar Ray Leonard was a "typical character". I said Sugar Ray Leonard was a household name back in the day when boxers didn't need to have the "bad boy" image to attract fans. But again, please don't take my word for it. Ask someone else you DO believe.
And yes.... Floyd's flashy character is a model for wannabes who want to emulate him in and out of the ring. Ergo your Broners, your Judahs, etc, etc. It's what sells nowadays.
I stick to my original point. When will the next American superstar arrive that will lift boxing in the U.S.? Americans are hungry for such a person. Floyd sells a lot of PPV.... but fans would embrace another Sugar Ray Leonard just as much, if not more.
