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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start ;D
I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.
True but that does not mean that Roy was somehow obligated to go to England anymore then it obligated Nigel to come to Vegas. Point is this blame on Roy for these fights not taking place are unreasonable. Benn fought Galvano twice and the ever dangerous Gent. In 94 Jones embarrassed Tony. They are all equally responsible and the same goes for Dariusz at 175. Jones would not budge and neither would he.
No, he wasn't obligated. Your right. Afterall he was a shot caller and the major attraction. But at the same time he was soaked in an air of entitlement and presumption of certainty when in fact there was better challenges to be had. They literally put him on a broadway stage in a top hat with showgirls FFS. Roy was about being Roy and can't say he owned an era or faced all the top dogs. He was all about 'they don't pay me enough to take those risks'. He can hang his hat on an early Hopkins and Toney of course. Shit I think he psyched Toney out before the bell rang and am not one to by all that talk about Toney being a fat slob etc. Equally all the talk about 'if Roy had not gone to heavy he would be an all time great' etc. So what. Thats on him...thats his doing. I mean if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped? I also think his Hill win was one of the better ones. But all this God speak grew tired and watching him cling to shadows now is really a bit sad, for him and of him. I think we missed some gems of matches! Hypotheticals are exactly that, and its much much more believable to watch a guy defeat opponents than to say he will just because. He wasn't some cyborg, and in the end it turns out he bled too.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.
He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.
He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.
Lol..so blinded.
I would like to see benn, eubank, collins and calzaghe move up and deal with that ruiz..
From middle to heavyweight..that alone shows what risks Rjj took to make history.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.
He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.
Lol..so blinded.
I would like to see benn, eubank, collins and calzaghe move up and deal with that ruiz..
From middle to heavyweight..that alone shows what risks Rjj took to make history.
Depends on whether he did that jump clean eh...
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start ;D
I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.
True but that does not mean that Roy was somehow obligated to go to England anymore then it obligated Nigel to come to Vegas. Point is this blame on Roy for these fights not taking place are unreasonable. Benn fought Galvano twice and the ever dangerous Gent. In 94 Jones embarrassed Tony. They are all equally responsible and the same goes for Dariusz at 175. Jones would not budge and neither would he.
No, he wasn't obligated. Your right. Afterall he was a shot caller and the major attraction. But at the same time he was soaked in an air of entitlement and presumption of certainty when in fact there was better challenges to be had. They literally put him on a broadway stage in a top hat with showgirls FFS. Roy was about being Roy and can't say he owned an era or faced all the top dogs. He was all about 'they don't pay me enough to take those risks'. He can hang his hat on an early Hopkins and Toney of course. Shit I think he psyched Toney out before the bell rang and am not one to by all that talk about Toney being a fat slob etc. Equally all the talk about 'if Roy had not gone to heavy he would be an all time great' etc. So what. Thats on him...thats his doing. I mean if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped? I also think his Hill win was one of the better ones. But all this God speak grew tired and watching him cling to shadows now is really a bit sad, for him and of him. I think we missed some gems of matches! Hypotheticals are exactly that, and its much much more believable to watch a guy defeat opponents than to say he will just because. He wasn't some cyborg, and in the end it turns out he bled too.
Agreed. My only points really are that they were all self centred, egocentric and all share the blame and that the calender or timing was also a factor. As a die hard Jones fan its embarrassing to watch him now. He should have retired after Ruiz.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
looking closely at roy's record i've noticed that he often fought guys who had lost in the recent bouts. examples of this are his fights against
tony thornton(lost to toney)
eric lucas(lost to tiozzo)
mike mccallum(lost to tiozzo)
virgil hill(lost to michalczewski)
...and many of his opponents had also recently been fighting guys with questionable records like these
22-8-1
17-14-1
12-12-2
11-23-8
9-4-0
2-3-0
which begs the question of how they got ranked let alone given top contender status.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
looking closely at roy's record i've noticed that he often fought guys who had lost in the recent bouts. examples of this are his fights against
tony thornton(lost to toney)
eric lucas(lost to tiozzo)
mike mccallum(lost to tiozzo)
virgil hill(lost to michalczewski)
...and many of his opponents had also recently been fighting guys with questionable records like these
22-8-1
17-14-1
12-12-2
11-23-8
9-4-0
2-3-0
which begs the question of how they got ranked let alone given top contender status.
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
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Canelo needs to man up and fight trout. Period.
As for roy jones, steve collins would never have been an issue.
Roy is just trying to keep his name relevant and make as much money as he can..thats what he wants to do and i hope it all works out for him.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Going back to the title of the thread,Roy Jones would have kicked Steve Collins butt.
A much better match up would be Collins VS Froch, pretty much the same skill level.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu5Cmpn3VOM
1999... prime roy jones jr 38-1 (32 KO) WBC WBC lightheavy champ. vs richard frazier 18-3-1 (7 KO)
y'all musta forgot!
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu5Cmpn3VOM
1999... prime roy jones jr 38-1 (32 KO) WBC WBC lightheavy champ. vs richard frazier 18-3-1 (7 KO)
y'all musta forgot!
Ok so you hate Roy Jones cause he fought an optional.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu5Cmpn3VOM
1999... prime roy jones jr 38-1 (32 KO) WBC WBC lightheavy champ. vs richard frazier 18-3-1 (7 KO)
y'all musta forgot!
Ok so you hate Roy Jones cause he fought an optional.
Think he rode the wbc #1 ranking for a year without having a fight, could be wrong though.
I'd toss in Jones vs Otis Grant who never fought at Lt. hvy and jumped two weight divisions to have the distinction of being Roys showcase cannon fodder.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu5Cmpn3VOM
1999... prime roy jones jr 38-1 (32 KO) WBC WBC lightheavy champ. vs richard frazier 18-3-1 (7 KO)
y'all musta forgot!
Ok so you hate Roy Jones cause he fought an optional.
Think he rode the wbc #1 ranking for a year without having a fight, could be wrong though.
I'd toss in Jones vs Otis Grant who never fought at Lt. hvy and jumped two weight divisions to have the distinction of being Roys showcase cannon fodder.
I'd go for Vinny for that trophy. Jones showed something he had never shown before or since in that fight. A dominant jab and I could not believe how good it was. Why he abandoned that and relied on reflexes will always puzzle me. Roy got all kinds of breaks because of his drawing power.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu5Cmpn3VOM
1999... prime roy jones jr 38-1 (32 KO) WBC WBC lightheavy champ. vs richard frazier 18-3-1 (7 KO)
y'all musta forgot!
Ok so you hate Roy Jones cause he fought an optional.
Think he rode the wbc #1 ranking for a year without having a fight, could be wrong though.
I'd toss in Jones vs Otis Grant who never fought at Lt. hvy and jumped two weight divisions to have the distinction of being Roys showcase cannon fodder.
I'd go for Vinny for that trophy. Jones showed something he had never shown before or since in that fight. A dominant jab and I could not believe how good it was. Why he abandoned that and relied on reflexes will always puzzle me. Roy got all kinds of breaks because of his drawing power.
chavez jr didn't fight as a amateur... his first 40 fights were his first 40 fights. so thats not really relevant.
roy's amateur record was 121-13.
i don't hate roy jones jr... i'm just aware that he was a bit of a bitch pussy who chose his fights very carefully to look his best not to challenge himself to do his best against the best.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
They paid their sanctioning fees and its no different today. How all of a sudden was Matthew Hatton a contender for Alvarez having never fought at 154? This kind of thing has been happening forever and all you need to be today to challenge for one of the many trinkets is to be a top 15 and in many cases pretty much yearly fighters magically appear in rankings.
but no one's trying to say canelo is one of the all time greatest fighters.
roy made that assertion daily.
But Roy never fought guys like that except for early in his career. Look at Chavez Sr's first 40 fights. Point is we can find fault in just about any greats record if we look hard enough. That does not detract in the end to how great they are/were. And many fighters claim to be the Goat. In the end no doubt in my mind that Roy is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. Where he rests on peoples lists is subjective but he definitely deserves to be on the list. To bad he is soiling his legacy in a way by fighting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu5Cmpn3VOM
1999... prime roy jones jr 38-1 (32 KO) WBC WBC lightheavy champ. vs richard frazier 18-3-1 (7 KO)
y'all musta forgot!
Ok so you hate Roy Jones cause he fought an optional.
Think he rode the wbc #1 ranking for a year without having a fight, could be wrong though.
I'd toss in Jones vs Otis Grant who never fought at Lt. hvy and jumped two weight divisions to have the distinction of being Roys showcase cannon fodder.
I'd go for Vinny for that trophy. Jones showed something he had never shown before or since in that fight. A dominant jab and I could not believe how good it was. Why he abandoned that and relied on reflexes will always puzzle me. Roy got all kinds of breaks because of his drawing power.
chavez jr didn't fight as a amateur... his first 40 fights were his first 40 fights. so thats not really relevant.
roy's amateur record was 121-13.
i don't hate roy jones jr... i'm just aware that he was a bit of a bitch pussy who chose his fights very carefully to look his best not to challenge himself to do his best against the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqjQG-Tw9FY
Just kidding;)
Most all time great Mexicans have no amateur record. And like I have already said, all of those involved share the blame as to why they did not fight.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoNFacF-x8s
here's an interesting roy jones jr video...
first they announce that they've fitted roy trunks with a mic to record the sounds in his shorts in the ring. very strange.
then at the 3minute mark george foreman predicts that roy will move up in weight and become heavyweight champion! jim lampley laughs it off and ridicules george. haha.
then at the 50:48 minute mark george says he should stay at middleweight if he wants to remain great.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.
The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Roy was playing with Mike and he respected him too much to knock him out although he did put him down.
Roy was the best and he would have beaten them all but he did have a fat HBO contract which meant that he did not have to travel and risk dangerous fights. I also remember fans had a boycott Roy Jones PPV fight and a clock that showed how long it was the last time he was in a dangerous fight. Roy himself use to play basketball matches before his fights because he was that good and the opponents were that poor but HBP were willing to pay.
Who would have thought 15 years later he would still be fighting and going abroad to get knocked out. Amazing this game of boxing. Fighting Steve Collins is about his level of boxing now, it is safe.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Never liked that McCallum fight. I like watching a great in the ring but that was def not the best Body snatcher. If Roy really respected him he would have poured it on for a clean tko and been done with it. Two sets of judges btw and a special mic in his trunks :rolleyes: no, Jones wasn't spoon fed. In hindsight this is where you might point when we start to wonder what are one of the things wrong with boxing today.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.
Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.
The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.
Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.
Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.
Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.
Exactly.
Alot of it is jealousy. Roys skills are pretty flawless when he was prime.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.
Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.
I do hate the assumption though that to 'make it' you have to go to America. Andre Ward is a great fighter but why does he get to have every fight in his back yard. If you're the best, you should be willing to prove it by giving up those advantages once in a while. Roy has become a globetrotter recently but more so because he had to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.
Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.
I do hate the assumption though that to 'make it' you have to go to America. Andre Ward is a great fighter but why does he get to have every fight in his back yard. If you're the best, you should be willing to prove it by giving up those advantages once in a while. Roy has become a globetrotter recently but more so because he had to.
Ward knows that if he travels it has to be against a lesser fighter!
Why ya think he wants Hearn to make an offer!
He wants £5million as its worth the loss on his record in Nottingham!
That's it! Without froch he has no career!
He can unify every division and no one will care. It's the truth from a ward fans side of it
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.
The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.
Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.
Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.
Eubank and Benn both had 10 times the speed that the 39 year old McCallum did. Watch those slow punches catching Jones and imagine Nigel Benn in front of a cowering Jones trapped on the ropes. The reason McCallum did better than most against Jones was because regardless of age he had been a class fighter and wasn't intimidated by Jones speed and pointless flash hooks that did fuck all. Most of Jones opponents were sacred of his speed and getting caught. Fighters like Eubank and Benn who were world class and had proven records of walking through fire would have scared the shit out of Jones. Especially the natural light heavy Michalczewski. Roy wanted no part of that fight.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.
The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.
Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.
Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.
Eubank and Benn both had 10 times the speed that the 39 year old McCallum did. Watch those slow punches catching Jones and imagine Nigel Benn in front of a cowering Jones trapped on the ropes. The reason McCallum did better than most against Jones was because regardless of age he had been a class fighter and wasn't intimidated by Jones speed and pointless flash hooks that did fuck all. Most of Jones opponents were sacred of his speed and getting caught. Fighters like Eubank and Benn who were world class and had proven records of walking through fire would have scared the shit out of Jones. Especially the natural light heavy Michalczewski. Roy wanted no part of that fight.
Eubank had five stoppages in 19 fights at Super middle. Benn had 18 fights at super middleweight, and won eight by knockout.
Yup, these two card carrying knockout artists had Jones quaking in his boots with their tenacious onslaughts.
Like the way you glossed over the fact that McCallum didn't have a single fight at welterweight.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.
The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.
Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.
Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.
Eubank and Benn both had 10 times the speed that the 39 year old McCallum did. Watch those slow punches catching Jones and imagine Nigel Benn in front of a cowering Jones trapped on the ropes. The reason McCallum did better than most against Jones was because regardless of age he had been a class fighter and wasn't intimidated by Jones speed and pointless flash hooks that did fuck all. Most of Jones opponents were sacred of his speed and getting caught. Fighters like Eubank and Benn who were world class and had proven records of walking through fire would have scared the shit out of Jones. Especially the natural light heavy Michalczewski. Roy wanted no part of that fight.
Eubank had five stoppages in 19 fights at Super middle. Benn had 18 fights at super middleweight, and won eight by knockout.
Yup, these two card carrying knockout artists had Jones quaking in his boots with their tenacious onslaughts.
Like the way you glossed over the fact that McCallum didn't have a single fight at welterweight.
Eubank purposefully never went out to hurt anyone after the Watson fight. He had Collins out in the tenth of their first fight and he hurt him a few times in the second fight too including a knckdown that wasnt called and Collins had a good chin. McCallum said Collins was his toughest opponent, he couldnt put a dent in him...
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
y'all musta forgot roy has a glass chin & can't take a punch to save his career.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Well for a guy with no chin he did pretty damn well, world champ all the way from MW to HW while only get dropped once in 15 years.
In the boxing game you don't "give" your opponent anything you don't have to. Roy was the undisputed #1 p4p, he had no cause to chase anybody.
Now that Roy has fought way beyond his prime and looked awful, people forget (yall musta forgot) how great he was in his prime. People talk like all it took was a guy with decent hand speed and power and he would have gotten KO'd.
Roy had some of the best natural reflexes in boxing history, and he had enough power to keep guys honest.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Well for a guy with no chin he did pretty damn well, world champ all the way from MW to HW while only get dropped once in 15 years.
In the boxing game you don't "give" your opponent anything you don't have to. Roy was the undisputed #1 p4p, he had no cause to chase anybody.
Now that Roy has fought way beyond his prime and looked awful, people forget (yall musta forgot) how great he was in his prime. People talk like all it took was a guy with decent hand speed and power and he would have gotten KO'd.
Roy had some of the best natural reflexes in boxing history, and he had enough power to keep guys honest.
Against the likes of Richard Frazier?;D
You have had it pointed out to you that there were better names available to fight and that even people like merchant were taking the piss at the time for the shit level of opposition and you think he looked great? Im sure Carl Froch could look great if he avoided Kessler and Ward...
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
I'm sure if you just rubbed a couple of brain cells together you'd get a spark, Ross. Try it.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Be more friction that alot of Jones fans would get if they tried the same.
We will never know how great he was in his prime because he avoided decent fighters, so much so that even Larry Merchant took the piss out of him after the Frazier fight and they allowed Steve Collins in the ring to to piss Jones off some more. He was a bit of a laughing stock back then that even the people promoting the fights were fed up of them.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
What decent fighters did he avoid? Were they better than guys like Bernard Hopkins and James Toney?
EDIT: Besides, of course, Tiger, Eubank and Benn, who each own at least 50% of the blame for those fights not happening.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Be more friction that alot of Jones fans would get if they tried the same.
We will never know how great he was in his prime because he avoided decent fighters, so much so that even Larry Merchant took the piss out of him after the Frazier fight and they allowed Steve Collins in the ring to to piss Jones off some more. He was a bit of a laughing stock back then that even the people promoting the fights were fed up of them.
Once again you're talking bollocks ross.
I know the interview, and Merchant presents a list of the four people who are a threat at light heavy who he should be fighting instead of Frazier.
The list was Hopkins (who elected to stay at middle), Johnson, Telesco and Dariusz M (scared of flying).
Collins appears to issue a challenge, which is embarrassing for a guy who retired two years earlier and never fought at light heavy. Jones would have been slated if he took that option.
Jones responded and fought Johnson then Telesco in his next two fights, exactly who Merchant and the HBO autocrats said were the best challenges out there.
Frazier was a mandatory, which is a problem when you have that many belts, although I'm sure you'd have accused him of ducking Frazier if he'd refused the mandatory.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Be more friction that alot of Jones fans would get if they tried the same.
We will never know how great he was in his prime because he avoided decent fighters, so much so that even Larry Merchant took the piss out of him after the Frazier fight and they allowed Steve Collins in the ring to to piss Jones off some more. He was a bit of a laughing stock back then that even the people promoting the fights were fed up of them.
I'm not a Jones "fan". I don't really love or hate any fighter enough to make a clown of myself the way you do, speaking of laughing stocks. Benn or Collins would've been table scraps for Roy Jones by the mid-late nineties, only a complete twit would think otherwise. Eubank would've still been a challenge but admits he would've lost the fight himself, what more do you need.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Be more friction that alot of Jones fans would get if they tried the same.
We will never know how great he was in his prime because he avoided decent fighters, so much so that even Larry Merchant took the piss out of him after the Frazier fight and they allowed Steve Collins in the ring to to piss Jones off some more. He was a bit of a laughing stock back then that even the people promoting the fights were fed up of them.
Once again you're talking bollocks ross.
I know the interview, and Merchant presents a list of the four people who are a threat at light heavy who he should be fighting instead of Frazier.
The list was Hopkins (who elected to stay at middle), Johnson, Telesco and Dariusz M (scared of flying).
Collins appears to issue a challenge, which is embarrassing for a guy who retired two years earlier and never fought at light heavy. Jones would have been slated if he took that option.
Jones responded and fought Johnson then Telesco in his next two fights, exactly who Merchant and the HBO autocrats said were the best challenges out there.
Frazier was a mandatory, which is a problem when you have that many belts, although I'm sure you'd have accused him of ducking Frazier if he'd refused the mandatory.
And why dyou think he was pointing out Jones options?
It was because as he said at the end,the fights that Jones had been fighting, were "junk".
Collins was let in the ring to piss Jones off. They didnt let him in and give him air time because they thougt hed praise Jones on how he looked great against his latest dangerous opponent;D
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Once again you're talking bollocks ross.
I know the interview, and Merchant presents a list of the four people who are a threat at light heavy who he should be fighting instead of Frazier.
The list was Hopkins (who elected to stay at middle), Johnson, Telesco and Dariusz M (scared of flying).
Collins appears to issue a challenge, which is embarrassing for a guy who retired two years earlier and never fought at light heavy. Jones would have been slated if he took that option.
Jones responded and fought Johnson then Telesco in his next two fights, exactly who Merchant and the HBO autocrats said were the best challenges out there.
Frazier was a mandatory, which is a problem when you have that many belts, although I'm sure you'd have accused him of ducking Frazier if he'd refused the mandatory.
Pwned.
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Re: Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr
How has this got 6 pages. There is a lot of hate for Roy. The name of Steve Collins should not even be in the same sentence as Roy Jones Jnr.
