Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr

[Spicoli]

Never liked that McCallum fight. I like watching a great in the ring but that was def not the best Body snatcher. If Roy really respected him he would have poured it on for a clean tko and been done with it. Two sets of judges btw and a special mic in his trunks no, Jones wasn't spoon fed. In hindsight this is where you might point when we start to wonder what are one of the things wrong with boxing today.

[Beanflicker]

I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.

Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.

[Bobthepen]

I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.

The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.

Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.

Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.

[imp]

I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.

Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.

Exactly.

Alot of it is jealousy. Roys skills are pretty flawless when he was prime.

[bzkfn]

I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.

Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.

I do hate the assumption though that to 'make it' you have to go to America. Andre Ward is a great fighter but why does he get to have every fight in his back yard. If you're the best, you should be willing to prove it by giving up those advantages once in a while. Roy has become a globetrotter recently but more so because he had to.

[Dropanuke]

I think if you're going to dog Roy Jones and claim that he ducked solid opposition and cherry picked fights, you should point who he should have fought but didnt at any given time.

Michalczewski and Eubank aside, as the blame for those fights not happening is AT LEAST 50/50, although to me logic says that as the #1 p4p at the time, Roy should have had guys coming to him instead of having to chase guys over in Europe.

I do hate the assumption though that to 'make it' you have to go to America. Andre Ward is a great fighter but why does he get to have every fight in his back yard. If you're the best, you should be willing to prove it by giving up those advantages once in a while. Roy has become a globetrotter recently but more so because he had to.

Ward knows that if he travels it has to be against a lesser fighter!
Why ya think he wants Hearn to make an offer!
He wants £5million as its worth the loss on his record in Nottingham!
That's it! Without froch he has no career!
He can unify every division and no one will care. It's the truth from a ward fans side of it

[ross]

I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.

The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.

Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.

Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.

Eubank and Benn both had 10 times the speed that the 39 year old McCallum did. Watch those slow punches catching Jones and imagine Nigel Benn in front of a cowering Jones trapped on the ropes. The reason McCallum did better than most against Jones was because regardless of age he had been a class fighter and wasn't intimidated by Jones speed and pointless flash hooks that did fuck all. Most of Jones opponents were sacred of his speed and getting caught. Fighters like Eubank and Benn who were world class and had proven records of walking through fire would have scared the shit out of Jones. Especially the natural light heavy Michalczewski. Roy wanted no part of that fight.

[Bobthepen]

I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.

The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.

Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.

Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.

Eubank and Benn both had 10 times the speed that the 39 year old McCallum did. Watch those slow punches catching Jones and imagine Nigel Benn in front of a cowering Jones trapped on the ropes. The reason McCallum did better than most against Jones was because regardless of age he had been a class fighter and wasn't intimidated by Jones speed and pointless flash hooks that did fuck all. Most of Jones opponents were sacred of his speed and getting caught. Fighters like Eubank and Benn who were world class and had proven records of walking through fire would have scared the shit out of Jones. Especially the natural light heavy Michalczewski. Roy wanted no part of that fight.

Eubank had five stoppages in 19 fights at Super middle. Benn had 18 fights at super middleweight, and won eight by knockout.
Yup, these two card carrying knockout artists had Jones quaking in his boots with their tenacious onslaughts.

Like the way you glossed over the fact that McCallum didn't have a single fight at welterweight.

[ross]

I watched the McCallum fight when it happened but I didn't remember McCallum doing as we'll as he did. This was a 39 year old former welterweight outlanding Jones. Watching this again and listening to Merchant point out how McCallum is exposing Jones. You see after each round the punches landed and most of them are something ridiculous in McCallums favour. Every time Roy is forced to the ropes he gets caught and covers up like a novice, exactly like he does now.

The different here was he had a class opponent in front of him that wasn't intimidated by Roy's speed. If that had been Eubank or Benn who had trapped Jones on the ropes and not a slow, old non puncher, Roy would have been gone.

Sigh. I'd completely forgot about McCallum's legendary welterweight career.

Benn was not a huge puncher at super middle, and neither Benn nor Eubank had the skill set that McCallum did. Nor were either as tall or had the reach McCallum did. Benn lacked his chin. Nor did any of those two have any pedigree at 175lbs.

Eubank and Benn both had 10 times the speed that the 39 year old McCallum did. Watch those slow punches catching Jones and imagine Nigel Benn in front of a cowering Jones trapped on the ropes. The reason McCallum did better than most against Jones was because regardless of age he had been a class fighter and wasn't intimidated by Jones speed and pointless flash hooks that did fuck all. Most of Jones opponents were sacred of his speed and getting caught. Fighters like Eubank and Benn who were world class and had proven records of walking through fire would have scared the shit out of Jones. Especially the natural light heavy Michalczewski. Roy wanted no part of that fight.

Eubank had five stoppages in 19 fights at Super middle. Benn had 18 fights at super middleweight, and won eight by knockout.
Yup, these two card carrying knockout artists had Jones quaking in his boots with their tenacious onslaughts.

Like the way you glossed over the fact that McCallum didn't have a single fight at welterweight.

Eubank purposefully never went out to hurt anyone after the Watson fight. He had Collins out in the tenth of their first fight and he hurt him a few times in the second fight too including a knckdown that wasnt called and Collins had a good chin. McCallum said Collins was his toughest opponent, he couldnt put a dent in him...

[ruthless rocco]

y'all musta forgot roy has a glass chin & can't take a punch to save his career.

[Beanflicker]

Well for a guy with no chin he did pretty damn well, world champ all the way from MW to HW while only get dropped once in 15 years.

In the boxing game you don't "give" your opponent anything you don't have to. Roy was the undisputed #1 p4p, he had no cause to chase anybody.

Now that Roy has fought way beyond his prime and looked awful, people forget (yall musta forgot) how great he was in his prime. People talk like all it took was a guy with decent hand speed and power and he would have gotten KO'd.

Roy had some of the best natural reflexes in boxing history, and he had enough power to keep guys honest.

[ross]

Well for a guy with no chin he did pretty damn well, world champ all the way from MW to HW while only get dropped once in 15 years.

In the boxing game you don't "give" your opponent anything you don't have to. Roy was the undisputed #1 p4p, he had no cause to chase anybody.

Now that Roy has fought way beyond his prime and looked awful, people forget (yall musta forgot) how great he was in his prime. People talk like all it took was a guy with decent hand speed and power and he would have gotten KO'd.

Roy had some of the best natural reflexes in boxing history, and he had enough power to keep guys honest.

Against the likes of Richard Frazier?

You have had it pointed out to you that there were better names available to fight and that even people like merchant were taking the piss at the time for the shit level of opposition and you think he looked great? Im sure Carl Froch could look great if he avoided Kessler and Ward...

[p4pking]

I'm sure if you just rubbed a couple of brain cells together you'd get a spark, Ross. Try it.

[ross]

Be more friction that alot of Jones fans would get if they tried the same.

We will never know how great he was in his prime because he avoided decent fighters, so much so that even Larry Merchant took the piss out of him after the Frazier fight and they allowed Steve Collins in the ring to to piss Jones off some more. He was a bit of a laughing stock back then that even the people promoting the fights were fed up of them.

[Beanflicker]

What decent fighters did he avoid? Were they better than guys like Bernard Hopkins and James Toney?

EDIT: Besides, of course, Tiger, Eubank and Benn, who each own at least 50% of the blame for those fights not happening.