Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?

I look at the guy mostly as a champion rather than just a fighter.

I had Mike Tyson at 10 based on unification. Wladimir is pretty much unified and has had a much better reign as a champion so he is 10 now. Possibly 9 (have to review my list?!).

****EDIT*** - I now see I have Jack Dempsey at 9.... I think I'd be more happy to demote Dempsey some time after Wladimir has retired. I'm almost certain I would but who knows what else could happen in WK's career.

He was always going to be knocking on the door of the heavyweight greats but now his longevity and and all but undisputed reign pretty much confirms his place in the top 10 for me.

I just wish he would fight his brother. Or that one of them would die. Or something?! :mad:

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Sam Langford, and Audley Harrison are all ranked ahead of the K Brothers.

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:rotflmao:

I assume u are being sarcastic.

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If you knew him you would know he is.

The thing with Wlad is that he is very safety first and that seems to turns alot people off. But he has been champ for a long time and if he keeps going it be hard not be make him in the top ten.

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I just wish he would fight his brother. Or that one of them would die. Or something?! :mad:

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That's a bit harsh. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

The thing with Wlad is that he is very safety first and that seems to turns alot people off. But he has been champ for a long time and if he keeps going it be hard not be make him in the top ten.

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Does he make the top ten because of the longevity of his reign? Or does he make the top ten because of the quality of opponents.?

Judge a man on his opponents not his reign as champion.

Lets just have one heavyweight champion at the top of the tree, so please vitali just retire and do your brother a favour.

Let vitali fight haye.
Haye beats vitali.
And we get the rematch between these two with haye hopefully having a completely different gameplan compared to his last outing at falling on the floor umpteen times for no reason.

Haye doesn't beat vitali!

K2 are done with that salesman hopefully!

Haye means shit to either man and Haye does no better in a Wlad rematch!

PPL are only high on haye because of his 2 brawls with that mental case Chisora!

They think he'l beat him because he did something a one armed VK couldn't! By that logic Cooney beats Holmes because he stopped Norton in 1! Silly talk....

VK has to have seriously aged for Haye to win! Haye is irrelevant to either man really! He's certainly not Wk's best win and in VK's case i would rate Peter, Sanders and Solis as a better win than him! In fact he's not really that more impressive a scalp than Adamek, Gomez or Hide.

He's not top 5 on Wlads resume.

Im not bothered about hayes last two wins. Haye has a great chance if vitali is on the way out.

Vitali would make the most money in this fight and he knows it..alot of people would want to see haye getting sparked out. And seeing as though vlad hasnt got the venom to do it, his big brother might possibly still have the power too.

What were vlad and vitali best wins by the way..?

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Originally Posted by imp

What were vlad and vitali best wins by the way..?

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Sam Peter for both ;)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by imp

What were vlad and vitali best wins by the way..?

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Sam Peter for both ;)

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Thanks.

I'm not sure where I stand with Wladimir right now.

I have no doubt he would have been difficult oppostion for many of the ATGs in HW history, but he has competed in such a weak era that it is hard to quantify such a belief.

I believe history will be kinder to Wladimir than the present.

If Sam Peter is their best win neither should be in the top 100.

(Herbie Hide was more dangerous than Peter. Fact.)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

If Sam Peter is their best win neither should be in the top 100.

(Herbie Hide was more dangerous than Peter. Fact.)

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Hide (that version) may well be Vit's best win.

Do you think they have better wins that Peter/Hide?

I've asked the question before... is there anybody on either Klit's record, that the top 40-50 HWs in history would not also have beat! I say 'No' ...Not the brother's fault, but a fact nonetheless

Thats why the quality of opponents cancels out the longevity of the reign as champion.

Vlad and vitali would cause any fighter issues in any era but the fact they are outside the top ten should still be respected.

Deontay wilder (as green as he is right now!) will cause wlad nightmares.

Wlad hates to fight.

Theres no way Wlad will risk fighting this type of opponent...please Wlad, prove me wrong.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Fenster

If Sam Peter is their best win neither should be in the top 100.

(Herbie Hide was more dangerous than Peter. Fact.)

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Hide (that version) may well be Vit's best win.

Do you think they have better wins that Peter/Hide?

I've asked the question before... is there anybody on either Klit's record, that the top 40-50 HWs in history would not also have beat! I say 'No' ...Not the brother's fault, but a fact nonetheless

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I think they should be judged as individuals not a team, but neither have a win that far above Hide/Peter, which lets be honest is shocking.

Byrd
Sanders
Chagaev
Old Botha
Old Mercer
Old Briggs
Old Rahman

(fucks sake, it's depressing)

Wladimir Klitschko stopped at least 15 fighters who had never been stopped before.

Calvin Brock (never down or stopped before)
Eddie Chambers (never down or stopped before)
Tony Thompson (never down or stopped before)
Ruslan Chagaev (never down or stopped before)
Monte Barrett (never down before, down 6 times in 2000 against Wladimir)
Lamon Brewster (never down before his first fight with Wlad)
David Bostice (never stopped, Wlad dropped him 4 times for a round 2 TKO)
Eliseo Castillo
Paea Wolfgramm
Fabian Meza
Najee Shaheed
Zoran Vujecic
Fabio Eduardo Moli
Charles Shufford
Axel Schulz


Wlad beat 8 previously undefeated fighters:

Mariusz Wach
Ruslan Chagaev (former amateur world champion
Sultan Ibragimov
Calvin Brock
Samuel Peter
Eliseo Castillo
Najee Shaheed
Zoran Vujecic

As well as 12 people who had only one previous loss (Haye, Byrd, Chambers, etc)


He has 10 wins over world champions:

Byrd x 2, Peter X 2, Rahman, Chagaev, Haye, Ibragimov, Mormeck, Mercer


He is the 5th longest reigning Heavyweight Champion of all time with the 3rd most consecutive title defenses at 13. He holds the IBF, WBO and IBO records for the most heavyweight title defenses.

And Wladimir won Olympic Gold in Atlanta in 2006.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

Wladimir Klitschko stopped at least 15 fighters who had never been stopped before.

Calvin Brock (never down or stopped before)
Eddie Chambers (never down or stopped before)
Tony Thompson (never down or stopped before)
Ruslan Chagaev (never down or stopped before)
Monte Barrett (never down before, down 6 times in 2000 against Wladimir)
Lamon Brewster (never down before his first fight with Wlad)
David Bostice (never stopped, Wlad dropped him 4 times for a round 2 TKO)
Eliseo Castillo
Paea Wolfgramm
Fabian Meza
Najee Shaheed
Zoran Vujecic
Fabio Eduardo Moli
Charles Shufford
Axel Schulz


Wlad beat 8 previously undefeated fighters:

Mariusz Wach
Ruslan Chagaev (former amateur world champion
Sultan Ibragimov
Calvin Brock
Samuel Peter
Eliseo Castillo
Najee Shaheed
Zoran Vujecic

As well as 12 people who had only one previous loss (Haye, Byrd, Chambers, etc)


He has 10 wins over world champions:

Byrd x 2, Peter X 2, Rahman, Chagaev, Haye, Ibragimov, Mormeck, Mercer


He is the 5th longest reigning Heavyweight Champion of all time with the 3rd most consecutive title defenses at 13. He holds the IBF, WBO and IBO records for the most heavyweight title defenses.

And Wladimir won Olympic Gold in Atlanta in 2006.

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Nice CV.

He certainly looks impressive when viewed in this form.

Well Bryd could trouble a lot of heavyweights could beat a top 20 i think i don't see many fighters in the 1900-1950s beating the guy for sure. Chagaev and Haye are good wins as well i just dont get why people are so down on Wlad. How do we know the undefeated guys that were smashed by Wlad were not good. I mean wtf is Louis best win Scheming, Wallcott, and LHW Conn i think all them get crused by top 40 Heavyweights and he consider to be pretty high on the list i think Wlad could make top 10 by the time he is done.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

Wladimir Klitschko stopped at least 15 fighters who had never been stopped before.

Calvin Brock (never down or stopped before)
Eddie Chambers (never down or stopped before)
Tony Thompson (never down or stopped before)
Ruslan Chagaev (never down or stopped before)
Monte Barrett (never down before, down 6 times in 2000 against Wladimir)
Lamon Brewster (never down before his first fight with Wlad)
David Bostice (never stopped, Wlad dropped him 4 times for a round 2 TKO)
Eliseo Castillo
Paea Wolfgramm
Fabian Meza
Najee Shaheed
Zoran Vujecic
Fabio Eduardo Moli
Charles Shufford
Axel Schulz


Wlad beat 8 previously undefeated fighters:

Mariusz Wach
Ruslan Chagaev (former amateur world champion
Sultan Ibragimov
Calvin Brock
Samuel Peter
Eliseo Castillo
Najee Shaheed
Zoran Vujecic

As well as 12 people who had only one previous loss (Haye, Byrd, Chambers, etc)


He has 10 wins over world champions:

Byrd x 2, Peter X 2, Rahman, Chagaev, Haye, Ibragimov, Mormeck, Mercer


He is the 5th longest reigning Heavyweight Champion of all time with the 3rd most consecutive title defenses at 13. He holds the IBF, WBO and IBO records for the most heavyweight title defenses.

And Wladimir won Olympic Gold in Atlanta in 2006.

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Yup, I think I'll get you to write mv CV too, becuase you have put a very positive spin on what is a horrible looking list of opponents!

Sam peter was not there best win! LOL.

Peter was being beaten to a pulp by Jameel Mcqeef until bigtime gassed out! Byrd. Chaggy. Undefeated Brock. Ibragimov etc would all have beaten peter...

Sanders is VK's best win IMO like Cooney is Holmes best win!

PPL talking like Peter was some bum anyway!! How did Rahman, Holy, Jirov and Ruiz do against Toney again?

I certainly rate Peter over i.e Rahman who lost to both Maskaev and Toney (both of which Peter beat!)

'Old Briggs. Old Mercer'. LOL Briggs was never any good, both Mcline and Ibragimov dominated him, VK just felt like putting a beatdown on one of his contemporaries thats all! Mercer was older yes but he wasn't a spring chicken when he beat Lewis up! In fact he was nearly a stone lighter for WK and he started boxing late as a pro anyway! No worse than Tyson or Holy fighting Holmes. No one cares about those wins anyway....

Solis would have schooled any version of Briggs and Byrd outboxes any version of Mercer! Prime Peter scalps the Trevor Berbicks of the world...

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Originally Posted by imp

Deontay wilder (as green as he is right now!) will cause wlad nightmares.

Wlad hates to fight.

Theres no way Wlad will risk fighting this type of opponent...please Wlad, prove me wrong.

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Is there an argument that Wlad hasn't fought every single person out there? He's literally cleaned out the division of contenders. The issue is just that the contenders of his time aren't that great on a historical scale.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by imp

Deontay wilder (as green as he is right now!) will cause wlad nightmares.

Wlad hates to fight.

Theres no way Wlad will risk fighting this type of opponent...please Wlad, prove me wrong.

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Is there an argument that Wlad hasn't fought every single person out there? He's literally cleaned out the division of contenders. The issue is just that the contenders of his time aren't that great on a historical scale.

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are the contenders that bad? or is wlad just that much better than them that they are portrayed as being so bad

if ali was around today with his mouth and in much closer fights with fighters much more like his size and avoiding the draft for a war on communism in a country far far away would this era be remembered as fondly as the era Ali was actually around?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by imp

Deontay wilder (as green as he is right now!) will cause wlad nightmares.

Wlad hates to fight.

Theres no way Wlad will risk fighting this type of opponent...please Wlad, prove me wrong.

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Is there an argument that Wlad hasn't fought every single person out there? He's literally cleaned out the division of contenders. The issue is just that the contenders of his time aren't that great on a historical scale.

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Yes there is an argument, the most glaring flaw in his entire career is, he never faced the BEST fighter in his era - Vitali.

Of course no-one expects brothers to fight, however, that doesn't alter the fact that Wlad has a luxury no other "champion" in history has benefited from. He never had to fight his most fierce rival.

No fighter in history can seriously claim to be no.1 without conclusively beating their independently recognised closest rival. For all we know Vitali could have murdered him, which would completely change his entire resume and career path.

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by imp

Deontay wilder (as green as he is right now!) will cause wlad nightmares.

Wlad hates to fight.

Theres no way Wlad will risk fighting this type of opponent...please Wlad, prove me wrong.

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Is there an argument that Wlad hasn't fought every single person out there? He's literally cleaned out the division of contenders. The issue is just that the contenders of his time aren't that great on a historical scale.

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are the contenders that bad? or is wlad just that much better than them that they are portrayed as being so bad

if ali was around today with his mouth and in much closer fights with fighters much more like his size and avoiding the draft for a war on communism in a country far far away would this era be remembered as fondly as the era Ali was actually around?

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You can defend most eras to a degree, but not this one!! It's the wrost in history, worst than the 'Bum of the month' days!

Deontay Wilder! Klitschko uses him for sparring and toys with him! Wilder has not even fought a B level HW yet! Haye would take his head off! Wilder is going life & death and getting dropped by 400lbs Mcdonald's Masters. He's alright but he's not special! Price is much better.

Neither of em are as good as K2 either. The bad era crap is nonsense...2 great champions and 2 prospects right there! Haye, Povetkin, Pulev....i could go on. 'Bum of the month' LOL. Solis. Chagaev. Wlad. Povetkin etc are all gold medal winners! Hardly bums.

WK has a top resume.

No way is this worse then the bum of month club some of those guys were not even pro fighters dude. This era is better then any era from the 1900s to the 1950s only era clearly above it is 1970s and the 1990s in which had fighters that could beat the ones today. Say what you want but i find it hard to believe that a bar tender who was 60 pounds over weight would be fighting in the ring with the champ. Rocky era was weaker along with Louis era and Holmes is barley above this one people look at the past better.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

No way is this worse then the bum of month club some of those guys were not even pro fighters dude. This era is better then any era from the 1900s to the 1950s only era clearly above it is 1970s and the 1990s in which had fighters that could beat the ones today. Say what you want but i find it hard to believe that a bar tender who was 60 pounds over weight would be fighting in the ring with the champ. Rocky era was weaker along with Louis era and Holmes is barley above this one people look at the past better.

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Oh dude please............

Big H the Holmes, Louis and Rocky eras were really weak and so was Tyson era as well i don't know why you think there so far ahead. Telling me the 1900's to the 1950's fighters were better then now.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Deontay Wilder! Klitschko uses him for sparring and toys with him! Wilder has not even fought a B level HW yet! Haye would take his head off! Wilder is going life & death and getting dropped by 400lbs Mcdonald's Masters. He's alright but he's not special! Price is much better.

Neither of em are as good as K2 either. The bad era crap is nonsense...2 great champions and 2 prospects right there! Haye, Povetkin, Pulev....i could go on. 'Bum of the month' LOL. Solis. Chagaev. Wlad. Povetkin etc are all gold medal winners! Hardly bums.

WK has a top resume.

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Two champions? That's the main reason the era is utter crap.

How can you possibly establish a clear no.1 if the two best can't fight and are facing SEPARATE competition?

It's a complete nonsense. Wlad has NEVER established himself as the best heavyweight in the world. Fact.

Would you have him fight brother? Personally I don't think that's a good idea. Think of it this way, he would have to train, both of them in fact would have to train for 6 to 8 weeks for the sole purpose of beating up, roughing up and perhaps knocking out their brother who from all indications are very close to each other.


To beat up your own brother who love for money fame just doesn't sit well with me. However boxing is a cruel business and perhaps I'm sentimental in this regard.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Big H the Holmes, Louis and Rocky eras were really weak and so was Tyson era as well i don't know why you think there so far ahead. Telling me the 1900's to the 1950's fighters were better then now.

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I have always maintained that the HW division has only had 2 great eras (and you mentioned them) but average as other eras, such as Holmes and Tyson were, they were far superior to now. Now we have top contenders like Char, Arreola, Solis, Chambers, Johnson and Thompson. These guys are not close to the level of Tim Witherspoon, Renaldo Snipes, Gerry Cooney, Bonecrusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Tony Tubbs. None of those guys were great, but they all beat anybody on either Klit's record!!

I think people like Mike Weaver, John Tate, Greg Page, Michale Dokes are all better than anybody around today!

some where between 15 and 20, yes he has dominated but it has been in a very weak era he lost to sanders and purity and never avenged them and let 3yrs go by until he rematched Brewster

Ali, Marciano, Holyfield, Holmes, Foreman, did you ever see any of them get smoked like a joke and crawl across the ring like a little biotch on his hands and knees? Then blame Vaseline for it. (Wlad actually blamed being rubbed down with vaseline before the fight for his Brewster Unforgettable Butt-Hole Crawl).

No --- Ali and Rocky never had to make any excuses like that. But that aint the rest of it----he actually done this 3 times didnt he. Lucky he's so tall and lanky so as not to get hit too much as NOBODY CAN FUCKING REACH HIM FOR THE MOST PART.

I think if Holmes and Tyson eras were better it was by like barely nothing. I would say Bryde and even Haye could beat those names that you have mention more likely Bryde. I still stick by that this Era is better then any thing from the 1900s to the 1950s. I can agree with some of what you say and i may be overrating this era but i think people are underrating it alot more then people overating it. When people are saying that fighters from the old old era are better then now i think its kinda bullshit.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by imp

Deontay wilder (as green as he is right now!) will cause wlad nightmares.

Wlad hates to fight.

Theres no way Wlad will risk fighting this type of opponent...please Wlad, prove me wrong.

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Is there an argument that Wlad hasn't fought every single person out there? He's literally cleaned out the division of contenders. The issue is just that the contenders of his time aren't that great on a historical scale.

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are the contenders that bad? or is wlad just that much better than them that they are portrayed as being so bad

if ali was around today with his mouth and in much closer fights with fighters much more like his size and avoiding the draft for a war on communism in a country far far away would this era be remembered as fondly as the era Ali was actually around?

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You can defend most eras to a degree, but not this one!! It's the wrost in history, worst than the 'Bum of the month' days!

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im not defending the era

its very crap, but that is mainly due to charactors and not skill

wlad is the worlds most boring man outside the ring

he has actually improved inside the ring, he's a bit more interesting nowadays

outside the ring he is very very dull tho

thats why the era is rubbish

if tyson was winning every fight like wlad is then the era would be seen as good

thing is tyson would always meet his buster douglas and it doesnt seem like wlad ever will

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Originally Posted by DavilaJones

Would you have him fight brother? Personally I don't think that's a good idea. Think of it this way, he would have to train, both of them in fact would have to train for 6 to 8 weeks for the sole purpose of beating up, roughing up and perhaps knocking out their brother who from all indications are very close to each other.


To beat up your own brother who love for money fame just doesn't sit well with me. However boxing is a cruel business and perhaps I'm sentimental in this regard.

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No he shouldn't fight his brother, but at the same time you shouldn't just ignore the fact there's a top TWO instead of a no.1

Since 2008, when Vitali came back from retirement, the brothers have occupied the top two positions. During this time they've had 18 fights between them with just ONE common opponent. 17 different title challengers.

How can you establish a pecking order of the worlds best heavyweights if the top two are facing completely different opposition?

In this very thread @THE PHILOSOPHER is claiming Solis is better than Briggs and Rahman. Wlad has never even fought Solis, so if he is such a worthy challenger, then surely the no.1 of this era would have fought him? No but his brother did. Just like Wlad fought Haye but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Adamek but Wlad didn't. Wlad fought Chagaev but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Arreola but Wlad didn't.

They might as well be competing in two completely different divisions. There isn't a clear no.1 heavyweight champion and there's no clear line of top challengers.

The Klitschko's are individuals and should be judged as such. Boxing is not a tag team sport.

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In this very thread @THE PHILOSOPHER is claiming Solis is better than Briggs and Rahman. Wlad has never even fought Solis, so if he is such a worthy challenger, then surely the no.1 of this era would have fought him? No but his brother did. Just like Wlad fought Haye but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Adamek but Wlad didn't. Wlad fought Chagaev but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Arreola but Wlad didn't.

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I never stated Wlad has fought Solis! I only mentioned him when other posters brought VK into the thread discussion.

And yes Solis is way better than Briggs ever was.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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In this very thread @THE PHILOSOPHER is claiming Solis is better than Briggs and Rahman. Wlad has never even fought Solis, so if he is such a worthy challenger, then surely the no.1 of this era would have fought him? No but his brother did. Just like Wlad fought Haye but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Adamek but Wlad didn't. Wlad fought Chagaev but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Arreola but Wlad didn't.

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I never stated Wlad has fought Solis! I only mentioned him when other posters brought VK into the thread discussion.

And yes Solis is way better than Briggs ever was.

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he was winning till vitali knocked him out :)