Felix Trindad would CRUSH Hagler...

You have said far worse things then i have about any fighter Tito. I guess he is overrated in my opinion because i see his name with fighters it should not be with. Tell me did he not get a huge gift against Oscar at the time they fought. Also when he met the atgs in their primes did he win or did he get crushed. I am not sure were you rate Trindad so maybe overrated is not the word i should of use. I am very well informed been around for a while were do you rate Trindad and see if my overrated statement was wrong or if it was right.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

You have said far worse things then i have about any fighter Tito. I guess he is overrated in my opinion because i see his name with fighters it should not be with. Tell me did he not get a huge gift against Oscar at the time they fought. Also when he met the atgs in their primes did he win or did he get crushed. I am not sure were you rate Trindad so maybe overrated is not the word i should of use. I am very well informed been around for a while were do you rate Trindad and see if my overrated statement was wrong or if it was right.

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You could say ODH lost his big fights too, you are strange poster at times @Mr140

Hey all i said is Trindad is overrated because he lost all his big fights that were against greats. Then went on to get schooled by another fighter who lost his big fights Oscar so i don't think his name should be in the same sentence as Hagler. As for Welterweight head to head its SRR and Leonard then who cares.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Hey all i said is Trindad is overrated because he lost all his big fights that were against greats. Then went on to get schooled by another fighter who lost his big fights Oscar so i don't think his name should be in the same sentence as Hagler. As for Welterweight head to head its SRR and Leonard then who cares.

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That I can agree with after that I would have Hearns.

Thing with Trindad that when he stepped it up to elite level atg level he failed really bad. I mean Out of his Hopkins and Wright he won like no rounds i mean just so one sided. As for the Oscar fight another big fighter who lost big fights he was gifted the fight in which he won like fucking no rounds damn near.

How easy to dismiss Trinidad's big wins and say he "failed" when he stepped it up into ATG level. How easy it is to now dismiss the five previously undefeated, highly-regarded fighters whom Trinidad handed their first defeat. It shows your lack of knowledge and objectivity when you just blurt things out like that. In that regard... the quality of opposition... Trinidad stacks up just as well and even better than ODLH. Campas was feared and undefeated when Trinidad knocked him out. So was Oba Carr. So was Vargas. In each case, De La Hoya defeated them only after Trinidad had removed the "0"s from their records.

When did Trinidad lose? When he fought one of the best MW's of all time, Bernard Hopkins. Prior to that, Trinidad had turned back all odds by knocking out another MW champion in William Joppy. I'd say he acquitted himself at middleweight light-years better than Oscar did. Speaking of gifts, ODLH got a ridiculous one himself when he was "gifted" a decision over Felix Sturm, further pointing out the fact that he didn't belong in that division.

To whom did Trinidad lose after that? To Winky Wright. Again, no shame in that. Winky's defense was world-renowned. True, Trinidad did not have a Plan B and that was arguably his worst fight ever. I've said so myself countless times. Like ALL greats have bad fights.... Trinidad is entitled to his.

Finally, Trinidad lost to RJJ Jr. at 170 pounds. Wa-y-y-y-y-y over Trinidad's natural weight and comfort zone. And there you have the 3 losses.

All of which hardly fits the profile of an overrated fighter, don't you think?
Try some objectiveness in your thinking, 140.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

How easy to dismiss Trinidad's big wins and say he "failed" when he stepped it up into ATG level. How easy it is to now dismiss the five previously undefeated, highly-regarded fighters whom Trinidad handed their first defeat. It shows your lack of knowledge and objectivity when you just blurt things out like that. In that regard... the quality of opposition... Trinidad stacks up just as well and even better than ODLH. Campas was feared and undefeated when Trinidad knocked him out. So was Oba Carr. So was Vargas. In each case, De La Hoya defeated them only after Trinidad had removed the "0"s from their records.

When did Trinidad lose? When he fought one of the best MW's of all time, Bernard Hopkins. Prior to that, Trinidad had turned back all odds by knocking out another MW champion in William Joppy. I'd say he acquitted himself at middleweight light-years better than Oscar did. Speaking of gifts, ODLH got a ridiculous one himself when he was "gifted" a decision over Felix Sturm, further pointing out the fact that he didn't belong in that division.

To whom did Trinidad lose after that? To Winky Wright. Again, no shame in that. Winky's defense was world-renowned. True, Trinidad did not have a Plan B and that was arguably his worst fight ever. I've said so myself countless times. Like ALL greats have bad fights.... Trinidad is entitled to his.

Finally, Trinidad lost to RJJ Jr. at 170 pounds. Wa-y-y-y-y-y over Trinidad's natural weight and comfort zone. And there you have the 3 losses.

All of which hardly fits the profile of an overrated fighter, don't you think?
Try some objectiveness in your thinking, 140.

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Tito is an all time great welter weight, a first ballot hall of famer and an all time great fighter. There is really no need to defend that fact and when you find yourself having to do so then stand up and kick yourself in the ass for going to such lengths. The need to do so pretty much speaks for itself. Its always been amazing to me on how big a deal people make out of the loss to Hopkins while they go on to declare Tito sub par in the same sentence.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

As the biggest Felix Trinidad fan here, and yet an extremely knowledgeable and objective boxing fan (ahem, cough, gasp)...... I feel the need to interject with my own personal remarks.

First, it's Marvin..... not Melvin. Our first clue that this was a hastily put together troll thread.

Second, "Marvelous" Marvin was probably one of the greatest, if not THE greatest middleweight champions in the history of boxing. Trinidad started fairly well at middleweight (major props to him for that) by KO'ing William Joppy..... but MW was not Trinidad's natural or best weight, by any means.

So in summary, gentlemen..... I must conclude that while I am a huge Trinidad fan, and consider him one of the greatest champions Puerto Rico and boxing has ever had..... I concur that this is a completely worthless thread, and only serves to bring Trinidad haters to the dinner table.

Good day.

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*I agree... Tito was a great welterweight..to try to make him into something he wasn't..a middleweight, just isn't good boxing talk. BUT..talk about Tito at welter... man, i'll say this, he brought it every time he fought...a lot of fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Trinidad isn't one of my fav fighters but hell don't try and play him down to be some run of the mill guy, he'll go down as one of THE BEST welterweight champions in history, he was one of if not the longest running Welterweight champions in the history of the sport (from 1993 to 1999, including 16 title defenses) and you don't have wins over the following by being just an ok fighter

Camacho
Campas
Carr
Whitaker
Reid
Vargas
Joppy
Mayorga

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He still gets smashed by Hagler

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never said he wouldn't, but so would the vast majority of the guys at MW right now, including Martinez, Chavez, and Golovkin

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Yeah but the thread ain't about them

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

How easy to dismiss Trinidad's big wins and say he "failed" when he stepped it up into ATG level. How easy it is to now dismiss the five previously undefeated, highly-regarded fighters whom Trinidad handed their first defeat. It shows your lack of knowledge and objectivity when you just blurt things out like that. In that regard... the quality of opposition... Trinidad stacks up just as well and even better than ODLH. Campas was feared and undefeated when Trinidad knocked him out. So was Oba Carr. So was Vargas. In each case, De La Hoya defeated them only after Trinidad had removed the "0"s from their records.

When did Trinidad lose? When he fought one of the best MW's of all time, Bernard Hopkins. Prior to that, Trinidad had turned back all odds by knocking out another MW champion in William Joppy. I'd say he acquitted himself at middleweight light-years better than Oscar did. Speaking of gifts, ODLH got a ridiculous one himself when he was "gifted" a decision over Felix Sturm, further pointing out the fact that he didn't belong in that division.

To whom did Trinidad lose after that? To Winky Wright. Again, no shame in that. Winky's defense was world-renowned. True, Trinidad did not have a Plan B and that was arguably his worst fight ever. I've said so myself countless times. Like ALL greats have bad fights.... Trinidad is entitled to his.

Finally, Trinidad lost to RJJ Jr. at 170 pounds. Wa-y-y-y-y-y over Trinidad's natural weight and comfort zone. And there you have the 3 losses.

All of which hardly fits the profile of an overrated fighter, don't you think?
Try some objectiveness in your thinking, 140.

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:vd: What odds? Trinidad was a 4-1 favorite to beat Joppy. Stop trying to play up his win for more than it is

I love how you don't even bring up the huge gift he got with Oscar don't tell me you thought Trindad won that fight please don't. As for Mw Trindad was a was a huge welterweight and filled out well at middle. Look his loses to the atg were pretty one sided beat downs takes points away i would say. As for Oscar he is one of my favs but he did lose big fights so i don't have him up there because of it. I rate Trindad, Shane and Oscar in about the same ball park but no way are they with likes of Leonard or a Hearns.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

As the biggest Felix Trinidad fan here, and yet an extremely knowledgeable and objective boxing fan (ahem, cough, gasp)...... I feel the need to interject with my own personal remarks.

First, it's Marvin..... not Melvin. Our first clue that this was a hastily put together troll thread.

Second, "Marvelous" Marvin was probably one of the greatest, if not THE greatest middleweight champions in the history of boxing. Trinidad started fairly well at middleweight (major props to him for that) by KO'ing William Joppy..... but MW was not Trinidad's natural or best weight, by any means.

So in summary, gentlemen..... I must conclude that while I am a huge Trinidad fan, and consider him one of the greatest champions Puerto Rico and boxing has ever had..... I concur that this is a completely worthless thread, and only serves to bring Trinidad haters to the dinner table.

Good day.

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*I agree... Tito was a great welterweight..to try to make him into something he wasn't..a middleweight, just isn't good boxing talk. BUT..talk about Tito at welter... man, i'll say this, he brought it every time he fought...a lot of fun to watch.

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Well he did pretty good for a guy that had no business being there losing only to the last undisputed middleweight in history. I agree that he really was not a middle. He was never the same after Hopkins as is the case with many of his foes.

What I do know is that not liking someone is not a criteria for ATG status.

Tito has a weak resume

a classic puncher pressure fighter. but Hagler trounces him, sorry.

THink of Hagler-Hearns.. but it would end in the first or second round.

Tito's best weight was 154 but dude just wasn't cut out to face the best at 160. He couldnt box nor did he have the ring smarts to adjust.

Against Hagler who was a beast of a middleweight, Tito gets dogged out quick.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Tito has a weak resume

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So do about a hundred other all time greats and Hearns/Hagler has diddly squat to do with how Tito/Hagler pans out.

Tito was a great fighter for sure , I just don't see him beating Marvin at MW , Marvin would stop him inside 6 for me.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

As the biggest Felix Trinidad fan here, and yet an extremely knowledgeable and objective boxing fan (ahem, cough, gasp)...... I feel the need to interject with my own personal remarks.

First, it's Marvin..... not Melvin. Our first clue that this was a hastily put together troll thread.

Second, "Marvelous" Marvin was probably one of the greatest, if not THE greatest middleweight champions in the history of boxing. Trinidad started fairly well at middleweight (major props to him for that) by KO'ing William Joppy..... but MW was not Trinidad's natural or best weight, by any means.

So in summary, gentlemen..... I must conclude that while I am a huge Trinidad fan, and consider him one of the greatest champions Puerto Rico and boxing has ever had..... I concur that this is a completely worthless thread, and only serves to bring Trinidad haters to the dinner table.

Good day.

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*I agree... Tito was a great welterweight..to try to make him into something he wasn't..a middleweight, just isn't good boxing talk. BUT..talk about Tito at welter... man, i'll say this, he brought it every time he fought...a lot of fun to watch.

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Well he did pretty good for a guy that had no business being there losing only to the last undisputed middleweight in history. I agree that he really was not a middle. He was never the same after Hopkins as is the case with many of his foes.

What I do know is that not liking someone is not a criteria for ATG status.

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*I am not a Trinidad hater... BUT every now and again, people start try to make Trinidad seem invinceable... He was great at welterweight, but..he lost to Oscar... that's not even in question... then got ko'ed by Hopkins... but truth is, there's no version of Tito that beats Winky Wright at any weight.

Well Tito would probably end close to what Hearns vs Hagler ended his chin was not that great and he sure as shit not going to try to out box. As for resume its not weak its just not the greatest thing ever. Not sure about the last comment because Winky lost to Bernard at mw so not sure what you mean.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well Tito would probably end close to what Hearns vs Hagler ended his chin was not that great and he sure as shit not going to try to out box. As for resume its not weak its just not the greatest thing ever. Not sure about the last comment because Winky lost to Bernard at mw so not sure what you mean.

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*I meant Tito..i stand corrected... althought Hopkins had to headbutt cutting Wright in the 2nd round..without even a point deduction, to get a decision.. fuken Hop, can't stand him and all the dirty shit he did in boxing...and got away with.

Yea Hopkins was dirty but so were a shit ton of great fighters that knew how to bend the rules. My favorite fighter is one of the direst there was and that is Holyfeild who made Hopkins seems harmless. Hes head was like a unbreakable object he would through at people if he needed to do it.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Yea Hopkins was dirty but so were a shit ton of great fighters that knew how to bend the rules. My favorite fighter is one of the direst there was and that is Holyfeild who made Hopkins seems harmless. Hes head was like a unbreakable object he would through at people if he needed to do it.

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Holyfield head cause that massive bruise on Brahman.

Sometimes a supposed joke-thread/troll-thread can actually lead to good discussion as it morphs into something else. It happens. I'm enjoying the discussion. Thumbs up, fellas...

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

Sometimes a supposed joke-thread/troll-thread can actually lead to good discussion as it morphs into something else. It happens. I'm enjoying the discussion. Thumbs up, fellas...

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You quite stole words off my mouth. Really.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

:vd: What odds? Trinidad was a 4-1 favorite to beat Joppy. Stop trying to play up his win for more than it is

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It still doesn't take away from his win. Trinidad was coming up to 160 and fighting a champion at that weight... an accomplishment on its own merit. Not to be compared with Oscar's disastrous foray into 160, which ended with a KO loss on a dubious body shot from Hopkins, and a gift win against Felix Sturm.

Gotta disagree and say that Hagler was a beast who would eat Tito's best shots and mow him down in the later rounds or earlier. If Winky can beat him with just defense and a jab then what do you really think would happen when he fought the Marvelous 1? Tito never had a second gear and Hagler did.

Trinidad had a second gear. It just wouldn't do him any good against Hagler. What's the point of this argument, anyway? Might as well theorize how Hagler would do against Tyson. Hagler is arguably the best MW in boxing history. Trinidad did fairly well for himself at the weight, taking down a champion in Joppy. But by no means was MW Trinidad's natural weight.

Starting a thread like this just brings out the Trindad haters.
Might as well not even thinly veil it with some absurd theory.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

:vd: What odds? Trinidad was a 4-1 favorite to beat Joppy. Stop trying to play up his win for more than it is

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It still doesn't take away from his win. Trinidad was coming up to 160 and fighting a champion at that weight... an accomplishment on its own merit. Not to be compared with Oscar's disastrous foray into 160, which ended with a KO loss on a dubious body shot from Hopkins, and a gift win against Felix Sturm.

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Ain't nobody claiming Oscar "turned back all odds" against Sturm. Joppy was a good fighter. But come on. The best name he has on is record is a 200 year old Roberto Duran. Trinidad was suppose to beat Joppy. And he did

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

:vd: What odds? Trinidad was a 4-1 favorite to beat Joppy. Stop trying to play up his win for more than it is

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It still doesn't take away from his win. Trinidad was coming up to 160 and fighting a champion at that weight... an accomplishment on its own merit. Not to be compared with Oscar's disastrous foray into 160, which ended with a KO loss on a dubious body shot from Hopkins, and a gift win against Felix Sturm.

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Ain't nobody claiming Oscar "turned back all odds" against Sturm. Joppy was a good fighter. But come on. The best name he has on is record is a 200 year old Roberto Duran. Trinidad was suppose to beat Joppy. And he did

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Tito did more than just beat Joppy, he starched him like no one has ever done before. It was an impressive performance.