I should know better by now but judgin ward on his fight style and behavior outside the ring I think he's clean and if this shit had been included in the contract he would honor it.
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I should know better by now but judgin ward on his fight style and behavior outside the ring I think he's clean and if this shit had been included in the contract he would honor it.
I think it's absurd to expect any fighter to submit to testing that they aren't required to, or hold them as being more suspect for not doing so. Who on earth wants to be comprehensively drug tested under any circumstance? If it's optional, people are not going to do it and nor should they, the only way to resolve this is have it standardized and that's a long way from happening.
it may be absurd to expect someone to test themselves beyond the limit of the rules as the currently stand... but Ward said he would do the testing and since saying that, hasn't. there's the problem...and its only amplified when you take into consideration his relationship with Victor Conte who is an admitted steroid supplier/nutritionist.
Peope keep mentioning his connection to Conte without noting the elephant in the room. Conte made designer steroids that couldn't be caught until someone sent a sample to the testing agencies to study. So he very well could have made another steroid that can't be detected. So given his association with Conte testing means fuck all to prove innocence. Testing can only prove guilt.
As for Donaire, sure he tests year round but he had the same Conte association sohe can never be innocent in my eyes. Testing or not. He might and probably is innocent but again testing means fuck all.
And FTR many people test year round now. Bradley does, all of Mayweather Promotions does ever since Love got popped for a diarrhetic.
Should Ward test, yes. But all of boxing should test. But it has to be independent because it is not in the organizations best interests to catch fighters. That's why they test after fights, they want the fights to happen. You aren't protecting anyone catching cheats after the fact.
I hope Ward makes a show of this, refusing testing and letting everyone know he's about to make a point. Then after the weigh in he tells the media he's juiced to the gills and going to kill his opponent. At that moment you create a huge story that could force real change. Then he tests clean after the fight and says I was just making a point. The BS of the system would be caught and it would be front page news.
Imagine the commissioners explaining that there was nothing they could do under the rules until after the fight. All hell would break loose on such a preposterous failed and faulty system that is clearly designed to fail. The squirming of the commissioners in front of Congress would be glorious.
Or maybe I'm drunk and need to go to bed.
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
???Quote:
Originally Posted by DavilaJones
I'm sure he still would do the testing if it were ever a matter of making a fight happen or any sort of career advancement, this seems to be a case where it was never expected though. I don't know how shady working with Conte is at all either, I'm sure the guy has all sorts of perfectly legal tricks and he's clearly an expert in his field.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Conte is a master sports nutritionist who was making a killing well before he got into the steroid dealing business. And he's been caught and done jail time for providing steroids to athletes... why would he risk going back to the slammer?
In the end, I think this discussion proves one thing, and that is that the AC's are completely useless and they need to revamp their testing. It's not the athletes responsibility to pay out of pocket to prove their clean. This is a task for the athletic commission.
I think this is all pretty much straightforward.
It is the responsibility of the boxing governing bodies to seek and provide the most effective means available to perform drug testing. It is the fighters' responsibilities to agree to and submit to whatever this testing is, provided it is done equally to both fighters in any particular fight.
Everything else is superfluous and can be safely disregarded.
Ward never said he would do the testing. It wasn't even brought up in negotiations. Even in the press conference Ward never agreed to Rodriguez's blast for VADA testing. You're basing your entire scheme off a later side interview when Ward was asked about Rodriguez's out of nowhere comments about PED testing and Ward basically said it was absurd and a set up question and that he has been subjected to PED testing many times before and its not a problem. And if Ward's former relationship with Conte amplifies suspicious for you then what does Rodriguez's current relationship with Conte do for you? Not to mention Conte's relationship as an adviser/consultant for VADA. Look Rocco I get it I really do, in this day in age no one is innocent but no one should be attacked or singled out without definitive proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Why is there a double standard for Ward but not for Pacquiao? There was no rule for Pacquiao. He wouldn't take the tests offered by Mayweather. Now we are a few years later, better informed of the PED landscape and with more knowledge that boxers cheat, and we still are giving guys' passes? Ward made $2MM for this fight! Pay for your own test and show Rodriguez up after you win the fight. It's simple, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by impExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
However, Ward refused to take a test. Now, that's what we'll know him by. "Ward, the guy who refused to take the test."Quote:
Originally Posted by jehoshaphatWard never said he would do the testing. It wasn't even brought up in negotiations. Even in the press conference Ward never agreed to Rodriguez's blast for VADA testing. You're basing your entire scheme off a later side interview when Ward was asked about Rodriguez's out of nowhere comments about PED testing and Ward basically said it was absurd and a set up question and that he has been subjected to PED testing many times before and its not a problem. And if Ward's former relationship with Conte amplifies suspicious for you then what does Rodriguez's current relationship with Conte do for you? Not to mention Conte's relationship as an adviser/consultant for VADA. Look Rocco I get it I really do, in this day in age no one is innocent but no one should be attacked or singled out without definitive proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
so rodriguez says "i'm gonna do this testing cause i have nothing to hide....but will andre do the testing too?"
andre replies "i'll do testing, i've been tested a lot in the past and i'd do it again...but not this time because i don't like how you asked in front of people."
rodriguez was smart by not pressing the issue during the negotiations.
1- ward's camp may have passed on him as an opponent if he was too demanding.
2- he may have lost the chance to fight for as large a purse--wards camp agrees to the testing but only if rodriguez takes a smaller cut to pay for ward's testing or some bullshit.
3- ward now looks suspect in the court of public opinion.
4- these questions will dog and distract ward as he prepares for the fight as every journalist asks him over and over.
as for conte...if he's gone legit he's legit and it won't affect rodriguez cause he's the one choosing to be tested. whereas ward looks like he's scared of what the results may be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhy is there a double standard for Ward but not for Pacquiao? There was no rule for Pacquiao. He wouldn't take the tests offered by Mayweather. Now we are a few years later, better informed of the PED landscape and with more knowledge that boxers cheat, and we still are giving guys' passes? Ward made $2MM for this fight! Pay for your own test and show Rodriguez up after you win the fight. It's simple, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by impExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
People need to quit using that dog and pony show 2 year circus act as some kind of standard. I'm sure if this was a 100 million dollar fight Ward would live in a cage at the lab.
These are 2 things too far apart to compare. Beside the fact that one was done in negotiations and the other basically done in a press conference. Pac looked suspicious not because he refused but because his reasons for not wanting the tests were outright lies. He started with saying he was afraid of needles, but dons many tattoos, then he said he didn't want to give blood (thought it would make him weak) within 2 weeks of the fight and then 24/7 clearly shows Pac getting blood drawn for a physical around 12 days before his Hatton fight. That's what made Pac look suspicious. Not to mention the 40 million other reasons.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhy is there a double standard for Ward but not for Pacquiao? There was no rule for Pacquiao. He wouldn't take the tests offered by Mayweather. Now we are a few years later, better informed of the PED landscape and with more knowledge that boxers cheat, and we still are giving guys' passes? Ward made $2MM for this fight! Pay for your own test and show Rodriguez up after you win the fight. It's simple, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by impExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
People need to quit using that dog and pony show 2 year circus act as some kind of standard. I'm sure if this was a 100 million dollar fight Ward would live in a cage at the lab.
In the end the solution is simple. It hardly relies on any brain activity. Its like like a fart or a burp. You shall and not you may be randomly tested for title fights. Start there. If you say no then you dont fight. Again make it a rule and further a common contract clause.Quote:
Originally Posted by jehoshaphatThese are 2 things too far apart to compare. Beside the fact that one was done in negotiations and the other basically done in a press conference. Pac looked suspicious not because he refused but because his reasons for not wanting the tests were outright lies. He started with saying he was afraid of needles, but dons many tattoos, then he said he didn't want to give blood (thought it would make him weak) within 2 weeks of the fight and then 24/7 clearly shows Pac getting blood drawn for a physical around 12 days before his Hatton fight. That's what made Pac look suspicious. Not to mention the 40 million other reasons.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhy is there a double standard for Ward but not for Pacquiao? There was no rule for Pacquiao. He wouldn't take the tests offered by Mayweather. Now we are a few years later, better informed of the PED landscape and with more knowledge that boxers cheat, and we still are giving guys' passes? Ward made $2MM for this fight! Pay for your own test and show Rodriguez up after you win the fight. It's simple, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by impExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
People need to quit using that dog and pony show 2 year circus act as some kind of standard. I'm sure if this was a 100 million dollar fight Ward would live in a cage at the lab.
Trying to compare this with the phantom fight horror show is down right laughable.
I agree. This picking and choosing is terrible. They can manage to do so for top amateur competitions but somehow its a problem for professional world title fights. Allowing the fighters to govern themselves, in the most important aspect, is quite asinine.
That's 100% the solution. Until the commissions mandate it, boxers making 7 figures to fight should take the test.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIn the end the solution is simple. It hardly relies on any brain activity. Its like like a fart or a burp. You shall and not you may be randomly tested for title fights. Start there. If you say no then you dont fight. Again make it a rule and further a common contract clause.Quote:
Originally Posted by jehoshaphatThese are 2 things too far apart to compare. Beside the fact that one was done in negotiations and the other basically done in a press conference. Pac looked suspicious not because he refused but because his reasons for not wanting the tests were outright lies. He started with saying he was afraid of needles, but dons many tattoos, then he said he didn't want to give blood (thought it would make him weak) within 2 weeks of the fight and then 24/7 clearly shows Pac getting blood drawn for a physical around 12 days before his Hatton fight. That's what made Pac look suspicious. Not to mention the 40 million other reasons.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhy is there a double standard for Ward but not for Pacquiao? There was no rule for Pacquiao. He wouldn't take the tests offered by Mayweather. Now we are a few years later, better informed of the PED landscape and with more knowledge that boxers cheat, and we still are giving guys' passes? Ward made $2MM for this fight! Pay for your own test and show Rodriguez up after you win the fight. It's simple, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by impExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
People need to quit using that dog and pony show 2 year circus act as some kind of standard. I'm sure if this was a 100 million dollar fight Ward would live in a cage at the lab.
Trying to compare this with the phantom fight horror show is down right laughable.
Ward said today that he's refusing to take the test because it wasn't in their contract.
But you'd think the so-called "Son of God" would do it for the good of the sport. It won't cost him anything and it would make a statement to the public that he's clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
He should, because he's a high-profile, highly-regarded boxer and because he's publicly agreed with Floyd Mayweather's call for PED testing for all big fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Ward said it would be "good for the sport".
He calls himself the "Son of God". If that's a fair nickname, he mustn't have anything dirty to hide. But is he a hypocrite?
There are lots of other higher profile fighters that could be coming forward to do the same even though its not in the contract. Like all of them. Wlad could make one hell of a statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe should, because he's a high-profile, highly-regarded boxer and because he's publicly agreed with Floyd Mayweather's call for PED testing for all big fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Ward said it would be "good for the sport".
He calls himself the "Son of God". If that's a fair nickname, he mustn't have anything dirty to hide. But is he a hypocrite?
All fighters, even the cheaters probably agree with Floyds proclamation.
Have them as a standard part of all contracts. Problem solved.
i think rodriguez may win this fight.
You know I think his chances are growing. Ward cant be 100% and this test fiasco has got to be taking a toll. Some of the biggest egos are the most fragile.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Wlad submits to random Olympic style testing by the way. For the Povetkin fight, a big issue was who to do the testing and ultimately even though it was more expensive, they used multiple testing agencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThere are lots of other higher profile fighters that could be coming forward to do the same even though its not in the contract. Like all of them. Wlad could make one hell of a statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe should, because he's a high-profile, highly-regarded boxer and because he's publicly agreed with Floyd Mayweather's call for PED testing for all big fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Ward said it would be "good for the sport".
He calls himself the "Son of God". If that's a fair nickname, he mustn't have anything dirty to hide. But is he a hypocrite?
All fighters, even the cheaters probably agree with Floyds proclamation.
Have them as a standard part of all contracts. Problem solved.
You're missing the point with all due respect. He is under NO contractual obligation to do it. Therefore, he does NOT have to do it. He should voluntarily do it, especially given his previous, outspoken stance on PEDs and the fact that his opponent is doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
By refusing to take PED tests for whatever reason, e.g. contract or not, it is suspicious. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is taking PEDs because innocent until proven guilty, but again it is suspicious.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratYou're missing the point with all due respect. He is under NO contractual obligation to do it. Therefore, he does NOT have to do it. He should voluntarily do it, especially given his previous, outspoken stance on PEDs and the fact that his opponent is doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
By refusing to take PED tests for whatever reason, e.g. contract or not, it is suspicious. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is taking PEDs because innocent until proven guilty, but again it is suspicious.
Why not be a groundbreaking leader instead of a chicken shit follower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWlad submits to random Olympic style testing by the way. For the Povetkin fight, a big issue was who to do the testing and ultimately even though it was more expensive, they used multiple testing agencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThere are lots of other higher profile fighters that could be coming forward to do the same even though its not in the contract. Like all of them. Wlad could make one hell of a statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe should, because he's a high-profile, highly-regarded boxer and because he's publicly agreed with Floyd Mayweather's call for PED testing for all big fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Ward said it would be "good for the sport".
He calls himself the "Son of God". If that's a fair nickname, he mustn't have anything dirty to hide. But is he a hypocrite?
All fighters, even the cheaters probably agree with Floyds proclamation.
Have them as a standard part of all contracts. Problem solved.
I pulled Wlads name out of the hat. The fact still remains that if you want this kind of testing you dont blind side a guy after a contract has been signed that does not include them. Every fight could go this way. Why not just include it in the contract????????????? If he says no then let the crucifixion commence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratYou're missing the point with all due respect. He is under NO contractual obligation to do it. Therefore, he does NOT have to do it. He should voluntarily do it, especially given his previous, outspoken stance on PEDs and the fact that his opponent is doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
By refusing to take PED tests for whatever reason, e.g. contract or not, it is suspicious. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is taking PEDs because innocent until proven guilty, but again it is suspicious.
How am I missing the point. Seems to me you are missing the point. Andre is not the poster child for surprise testing. Why should he volunteer to do it? This is crazy. If everybody should volunteer to do it then make it mandatory FFS. This is getting ridiculous. Pulling freakin names out of a hat and expecting these people to agree to extra testing after contracts are signed. Person A should volunteer but person B does not have to?
The elephant in the room is the fact that all the powers who run the damn sport dont want the testing.If they did we would not be having this discussion. You cant just start randomly picking guys out of the crowd that already have contracts signed expect them to do it and if they dont presume guilt. That is a witch hunt.
i gave i list of reasons earlier in the thread why Rodriguez may not have wanted to try to negotiate the testing with ward...
I must confess my ignorance in regards to steroids, I know that some help endurance and muscle building but what other things do they do to give a boxer an illegal edge over his opponent?
Put aside the contracts, why wouldn't he want to test if his opponent is undergoing tests? Why not operate on an even playing field?Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratYou're missing the point with all due respect. He is under NO contractual obligation to do it. Therefore, he does NOT have to do it. He should voluntarily do it, especially given his previous, outspoken stance on PEDs and the fact that his opponent is doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
By refusing to take PED tests for whatever reason, e.g. contract or not, it is suspicious. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is taking PEDs because innocent until proven guilty, but again it is suspicious.
How am I missing the point. Seems to me you are missing the point. Andre is not the poster child for surprise testing. Why should he volunteer to do it? This is crazy. If everybody should volunteer to do it then make it mandatory FFS. This is getting ridiculous. Pulling freakin names out of a hat and expecting these people to agree to extra testing after contracts are signed. Person A should volunteer but person B does not have to?
The elephant in the room is the fact that all the powers who run the damn sport dont want the testing.If they did we would not be having this discussion. You cant just start randomly picking guys out of the crowd that already have contracts signed expect them to do it and if they dont presume guilt. That is a witch hunt.
He's not exactly random. He's been outspoken on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratYou're missing the point with all due respect. He is under NO contractual obligation to do it. Therefore, he does NOT have to do it. He should voluntarily do it, especially given his previous, outspoken stance on PEDs and the fact that his opponent is doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
By refusing to take PED tests for whatever reason, e.g. contract or not, it is suspicious. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is taking PEDs because innocent until proven guilty, but again it is suspicious.
How am I missing the point. Seems to me you are missing the point. Andre is not the poster child for surprise testing. Why should he volunteer to do it? This is crazy. If everybody should volunteer to do it then make it mandatory FFS. This is getting ridiculous. Pulling freakin names out of a hat and expecting these people to agree to extra testing after contracts are signed. Person A should volunteer but person B does not have to?
The elephant in the room is the fact that all the powers who run the damn sport dont want the testing.If they did we would not be having this discussion. You cant just start randomly picking guys out of the crowd that already have contracts signed expect them to do it and if they dont presume guilt. That is a witch hunt.
He should volunteer to do it to do his part to clean up the sport in which he is not only a participant, but at the very top level, earning $2,000,000.00 for his next fight, and his opponent is volunteering to do it. Moreover, he is making 2X what his opponent is making for the fight.
Why should he not volunteer to do it? Why should he not want to be the poster child?
They help with recovery more than anything. Many aren't exactly performance enhancing in themselves as much as they allow a person to train harder and more frequently without fatigue or risking injury and with much less down time. It's certainly an incredible edge in most sports no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavilaJones
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratPut aside the contracts, why wouldn't he want to test if his opponent is undergoing tests? Why not operate on an even playing field?Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratYou're missing the point with all due respect. He is under NO contractual obligation to do it. Therefore, he does NOT have to do it. He should voluntarily do it, especially given his previous, outspoken stance on PEDs and the fact that his opponent is doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
By refusing to take PED tests for whatever reason, e.g. contract or not, it is suspicious. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is taking PEDs because innocent until proven guilty, but again it is suspicious.
How am I missing the point. Seems to me you are missing the point. Andre is not the poster child for surprise testing. Why should he volunteer to do it? This is crazy. If everybody should volunteer to do it then make it mandatory FFS. This is getting ridiculous. Pulling freakin names out of a hat and expecting these people to agree to extra testing after contracts are signed. Person A should volunteer but person B does not have to?
The elephant in the room is the fact that all the powers who run the damn sport dont want the testing.If they did we would not be having this discussion. You cant just start randomly picking guys out of the crowd that already have contracts signed expect them to do it and if they dont presume guilt. That is a witch hunt.
This is becoming eternally circular. We keep on arriving at the start.
Why did they not include it in the contract? You cant just remove the contract from discussion.
Again, then it should have been included in the contract. I have no love lost for Mr Ward. In fact he is in my top 3 hope to see get ktfo list but fair is fair. The wing and the prayer is to hope that he tests hot for a millionth of a part over the acceptable amount for rehab.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratHe's not exactly random. He's been outspoken on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratYou're missing the point with all due respect. He is under NO contractual obligation to do it. Therefore, he does NOT have to do it. He should voluntarily do it, especially given his previous, outspoken stance on PEDs and the fact that his opponent is doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Why does he have to make this statement?
By refusing to take PED tests for whatever reason, e.g. contract or not, it is suspicious. I wouldn't go as far as to say he is taking PEDs because innocent until proven guilty, but again it is suspicious.
How am I missing the point. Seems to me you are missing the point. Andre is not the poster child for surprise testing. Why should he volunteer to do it? This is crazy. If everybody should volunteer to do it then make it mandatory FFS. This is getting ridiculous. Pulling freakin names out of a hat and expecting these people to agree to extra testing after contracts are signed. Person A should volunteer but person B does not have to?
The elephant in the room is the fact that all the powers who run the damn sport dont want the testing.If they did we would not be having this discussion. You cant just start randomly picking guys out of the crowd that already have contracts signed expect them to do it and if they dont presume guilt. That is a witch hunt.
He should volunteer to do it to do his part to clean up the sport in which he is not only a participant, but at the very top level, earning $2,000,000.00 for his next fight, and his opponent is volunteering to do it. Moreover, he is making 2X what his opponent is making for the fight.
Why should he not volunteer to do it? Why should he not want to be the poster child?
And again then so should everybody else. That is volunteer. Its only those who work with Conte and Heredia that are supposed to volunteer. Did he ask to be a poster child?
Upcoming fights
Hopkins has a fight coming up. He's been in the game for 20 years. Is he volunteering?
Kell Brook has came up injured twice for the same fight and is the next gen. Is he volunteering?
How about Abraham?
And Golovkin?
Froch?
Manny?
Rios?
Groves?
Alexander?
Santa Cruz?
All Sauerland boxers including Abraham whose fights are televised by ARD are given Olympic-style testing (random PED testing). It was written into Sauerland's TV contract with ARD.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Hopkins has refused PED testing in the past. None of the others you mentioned (except perhaps Pacquiao) have been reluctant to do PED testing.
Floyd Mayweather has come forward and had random drug testing, whether his opponents wanted him to or not.
Look this is a dead horse. Show me all these fighters of high profile status or champions from minimum to hev that are standing in line to take on added tests as volunteers. You cant because they dont exist. The facts have not changed since the first page of this thread and they speak for themselves. The evidence is clear that this is a witch hunt and I'm done replying to the pretzel logic on full display. Situational cheery picking. You guys just continue on. It will hit 50 pages and you will be where you started. No justification whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomAll Sauerland boxers including Abraham whose fights are televised by ARD are given Olympic-style testing (random PED testing). It was written into Sauerland's TV contract with ARD.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Hopkins has refused PED testing in the past. None of the others you mentioned (except perhaps Pacquiao) have been reluctant to do PED testing.
Floyd Mayweather has come forward and had random drug testing, whether his opponents wanted him to or not.
mayweather started it.
sauerland has worked it into their fighters contracts.
donaire has picked up the cause...voluntarily testing himself year round.
rodriguez is following suit.
it needs to continue. you can't say no one is doing it. some high profile fighters have started and in order for the sport to continue to evolve other high ranking fighters need to stand up and volunteer to be tested and insist that their opponents be tested as well.
why are we talking about ward? because he was challenged publicly and balked... because he's son of god. what would jesus do? he'd test. no question.
Or he'd get crucified for not doing so;) BAM.