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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
Max Power
There is a difference between being "entertaining" and being "technically brilliant".
Punch bags are great to watch. But everybody knows that if you put a tough punch bag in front of a much more skilled fighter they live up to that label.
I think for all SRR's size advantage... Pacquiao is faster and hits harder!
SRR has power in both hands does he? He can take great punches right? THAT'S the points you choose to highlight about him, says a lot.
I see Floyd dismantling a lot of opponents at SRR's level but I see little of SRR handling anybody close to Mayweather, or most of his opponents for that matter!
I said entertaining OUTSIDE the ropes such as acting and trying to sell himself to the public. And what more do you want from a fighter? I don't see anything Mayweather can do that Ray couldn't figure out either. Hell even Roger Mayweather said the body of work Robinson has done is more impressive then his nephews. And it's all matter of opinion anyways from all sides. And I'm not a nuthugger you smug douche but I do appreciate the sports past as it has paved the way for todays stars.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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This question is kinda stupid because none of us have seen SRR in his prime on film. I mean there is not even one film of him at ww right they all got burnt in a fire. Mayweather had trouble with semi retired Oscar and Cotto 154 not sure how he is at 160. So lets not get carried away i mean in Mayweather's prime you could argue he lost to Jlc who is not a atg. Hw thread i kinda agree with but the old 70's guys came back in the 90's and did pretty well so i think there era was pretty good don't you think guys because the 90's destroy this era we are in right now i know that much.
Ok 140, there is enough film of Robinson to see his style and make a bit of an assessment but think about what you have just said... That SRR has not been studied in prime. So that says that all the forum bashers all over the world stamp their faith in SRR as being the greatest of all time, pick him in all fights and give analysis of him based on something they haven't even seen! That's not right is it! I believe in my own 2 eyes!
@La Cucaracha
Great story man.. I will tread lightly here because we are talking about your dad now and I want to show you respect. But considering Wlad a superheavyweight gold medallist and the current and dominant HW champ of the world I can say with some certainty that your dad is not a threat to him within the rules of boxing. My position being declared, this is your father so I can only add.. I DON'T REALLY KNOW. Just as with the old timers vs the modern athletes, neither I nor anybody else can have what amounts to any "Empirical Evidence" for hypothetical match ups to back up either my view OR theirs so I guess the playing field has been levelled :)
As for past warriors including your dad, of course they are chiselled. I didn't mean to imply they were "soft as butter" back in the day. The boxers have always been the most Spartan conditioned of all athletes imo. As for Wlad and his modern peers compared to the old timers, I agree fully that the old guys were a "tougher breed" in a subjective sense, there's no doubt that. But I think that is not the same as in a performance or comparative advantage sense. They may have been bigger men on the inside and that does count for something!
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Ray leonard is better than robinson and he sure wouldnt have lost to the part time sailors he lost to..
Old school fighters are overrated..
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Ray leonard is better than robinson and he sure wouldnt have lost to the part time sailors he lost to..
Old school fighters are overrated..
I'm sure a few decades down the road they will say the same thing about our generation.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Ray leonard is better than robinson and he sure wouldnt have lost to the part time sailors he lost to..
Old school fighters are overrated..
Robinson only lost once at welterweight, which sailors did he lose to?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Ray leonard is better than robinson and he sure wouldnt have lost to the part time sailors he lost to..
Old school fighters are overrated..
Lol.
I love the sailors part.
To be fair, you have a point even if sugar ray had 400 fights..what type of opponents were they.
Quality not quantity.
Ray robinson is a legend in his era but this era belongs to someone else.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Ray leonard is better than robinson and he sure wouldnt have lost to the part time sailors he lost to..
Old school fighters are overrated..
Agreed. In fact I would find it hard to write off any of the fantastic 4 here. It was just a really talented era and you can see the difference.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Again, if Robinson lived in this area... He'd have the extra half a century of sports science, nutrition, PEDs and sporting history/experience to learn from.
You can only judge a guy relative to the context of their area.
Like I've already said...
True and we now know that balance and power stems from the big toe so even the old flat soled leather high boots dipped in a chalk tray each round for some grip messed with that era.
Imagine them in modern shoes with no slippery advertizing on the canvas plus the modern diet, training and study of techniques we have.
Add that to the old work ethic and real hunger and you'd have some all round machines frequenting the ring.
If you got the best of both worlds you'd have dudes with thin old gloves used to going 20 rounds and before that up to 103 one minute rounds without gloves and people not being able to recognize the fighters after a few rounds, thats a tough setting.
How many modern boxers could handle stepping back to any of that?.
Different games different rules now, padded gloves, less rounds, ring size agreements, better boots, you name it,we got it, so now you can diversify and survive in there a number of ways. I think it works both ways though,there'd be some massive shocks in store for a modern fighter going back in time and trying to survive under their rules.
On the other side of the coin it would be just as hard for old school to come forward in time and survive what its become too although with the modern gloves and less rounds and better ring control by the refs I think they'd be still standing but maybe frustrated and outpointed or disqualified.
Go the other way though and I think it could get messy for most modern boxers in old gloves,longer rounds with more fouls allowed on the inside and those crushing outer wrist bone shots that were ignored in those old gloves. If anyone had a hope it would be Floyd though,he has a way of dissolving the oppositions power in close while gaining position.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Andre the adjustments each would have to make would of course ask many questions of the fighters involved, that complicates things..
On the issue regarding if previous fighters were to have had the same advancements and experiences of more modern generation ones would be as good if not better than modern fighters are today by virtue of the fact they came up tougher and with a greater work ethic- I don't really have an issue with that assumption. I'm only comparing how they in fact were as opposed to how they would have been... IF.
A couple of things to consider though...
1/Just because they came up tougher does not necessarily mean they would be more focussed on boxing. It could be argued that a harsher and more turbulent life might destroy focus maybe. If you look at the great number of fighters from the former Soviet Union and Eastern BLOC countries who have made it to the top these days- they come from an extremely oppressive and harsh regime just like the former American one which raised those greats of the past with the added distinction though that the Soviet regime had an intensive boxing program which forged their fighters like a factory from the time they could walk. It shows in the statistics as well in that the Eastern BLOC has bested the Western World overall in the Olympics going back a long time.
2/To say that old timers had better work ethic is an unproven assumption to begin with. Take none other than Mayweather for example.. Or Wladimir Klitschko. Both of them state their cases for being dominant champions due to their "hard work.. and dedication". Who is to say that these guys don't work as hard as say Rocky Marciano? Or Sugar Robinson? I would think they'd work just as hard at their craft.
3/If you take the olden days fighters, give them modern diets, training, sparring partners, medicine, pharmaceuticals, make them taller and heftier or what not then they would have different balances and have to fight different game. They would not even BE the same boxers.
Again Andre, I'm not denying that what your saying can't be true, it might! But it could also be akin to assuming that former greats were intrinsically better which is disputable.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Who is to say that these guys do work as hard as say Rocky Marciano? Or Sugar Robinson?
Just because they are modern does not make them better either.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Yes Master, the reverse can also be true, I'm not disputing that! If you need to hear it explicitly.
Personally, I think the champs of all the eras work equally as hard and their were lazier than average guys in every era.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
Max Power
Yes Master, the reverse can also be true, I'm not disputing that! If you need to hear it explicitly.
Personally, I think the champs of all the eras work equally as hard and their were lazier than average guys in every era.
Yes I did need to hear that acknowledgement as you have called legends in the sport fat, blind, shoe shiners and feather fisted.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Yeah. And you have called contemporary top level boxers, fat, lazy, unskilled and unable to carry these old timers spit buckets! Don't be such a hypocrite!
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Yeah. And you have called contemporary top level boxers, fat, lazy, unskilled and unable to carry these old timers spit buckets! Don't be such a hypocrite!
Shaddup for a while now, you @$$-licker....
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Bradlee your tongue is so far up these golden age asses you are at risk of heavy metal poisoning. The voice of the purest of nuthuggers I'm afraid!
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Bradlee your tongue is so far up these golden age asses you are at risk of heavy metal poisoning. The voice of the purest of nuthuggers I'm afraid!
Gold isn't a heavy metal.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Technically rocco... you are correct! If your boxing analysis was as good as your screening of my quips you might see things more my way!! :)
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
Max Power
Technically rocco... you are correct! If your boxing analysis was as good as your screening of my quips you might see things more my way!! :)
After having "screened" the majority of your posts I've noticed that around 95% of the forum members responding to your ridiculous posts disagree with your very opinionated but deeply flawed boxing analysis.
You have alot of opinions but no knowledge to back those opinions up. when someone disagrees with you your primary response is "you're brainwashed"
In one of the threads that you started you admit that you don't know if draping oneself over an opponent and wrestling them is illegal! WTF guy...think a little and stop looking for attention all the time.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
max power, you don't know a left hook from a fish hook, an uppercut from a coldcut, a straight right from a right cross....
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Well Mr. Rocco, if it was so clear cut then how come you were unable to provide anything like a conclusive answer either yes/no or why it's tolerated. I specifically asked to be replied to by someone with fine knowledge of the rules, not some arbitrary forum basher and preferably one not one eyed biased against the fighter in question.
Instead I get more non-sensical input for you and your alt Bradley. Here's a thought, if you don't like the content of a thread, IGNORE it! You could ignore me altogether if you wanted but you find some amusement poking sticks since your favourites got exposed as less than super-human and your a little butt-hurt. Get over it you little child! :D
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
Max Power
Well Mr. Rocco, if it was so clear cut then how come you were unable to provide anything like a conclusive answer either yes/no or why it's tolerated. I specifically asked to be replied to by someone with fine knowledge of the rules, not some arbitrary forum basher and preferably one not one eyed biased against the fighter in question.
Instead I get more non-sensical input for you and your alt Bradley. Here's a thought, if you don't like the content of a thread, IGNORE it! You could ignore me altogether if you wanted but you find some amusement poking sticks since your favourites got exposed as less than super-human and your a little butt-hurt. Get over it you little child! :D
You're not your...unless you're talking about your sore asshole.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
Master
Who is to say that these guys do work as hard as say Rocky Marciano? Or Sugar Robinson?
Just because they are modern does not make them better either.
I was thinking more of the tough grind these boys had to go through outside of the ring just to bring food in their door.Aisde from their training which was minimal to some extents when compared to today.
I think the closest we get to that kind of hunger and grit which breeds determination; nowadays would be some from south of the border in the States, some parts of Asia, Africa maybe, but they haven't forests they have to go out in and cut trees for 12 hours a day by hand, or roads to build,tunnels to dig by hand or quarry split all that stuff they used to have to do out in the elements rain or shine.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Is the occasional spelling mistake really important to you on a boxing forum? That's just sad!
I bring analysis, you bring a spell checker.
Well done. That's pretty good for you! :rolleyes:
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
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Originally Posted by
Max Power
Is the occasional spelling mistake really important to you on a boxing forum? That's just sad!
I bring analysis, you bring a spell checker.
Well done. That's pretty good for you! :rolleyes:
It's not a spelling mistake, it's a grammatical error.
My point is that you don't know what you're talking about.
-Not when you're falsely attributing quotes to me(which you've done twice).
-Not when you're trying to be clever --making comments about heavy metal poisoning.
-Not when you're giving me english lessons.
-Not when you're trying to argue about boxing-- It's rules or it's history, not to mention it's future.
Why didn't I answer you when you were asking whether it was legal for fighters wrestle each other? Because you know the answer or you're a moron. Your posts are always the same in so much as you always have your own preformed answer to your question that you think is special and unique and that you're hoping you can stir shit up by telling those who respond that they're wrong and have been brainwashed to believe "old American centered ideas".
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
I was just gonna follow up by adding that you should direct your attention to the Floyd's small dick thread because it's probably a subject you do know about.
But i see you've already found your way over there. Stick to what you know... Good job Max Power!
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Ooooo someone's a little stroppy still. Seems to me a pretty legit topic of considerable controversy. Obviously you have resolutely decided it's cheating and declared any other opinion stupid but are unable to explain why it's allowed to occur so in fact you have nothing knowledgeable to contribute, JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER THREAD.
That's why all you can do is follow me around and point out little errors which are of no relevance to the discussions whatsoever, even though I offered you just piss off.
This behaviour is reminiscent of something else.. A DOG! Fetch boy! lol
Your not a woman by any chance are you? ;)
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
I see... Women are dogs. Good to know how you really feel @Max Power.
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Ooooo someone's a little stroppy still. Seems to me a pretty legit topic of considerable controversy. Obviously you have resolutely decided it's cheating and declared any other opinion stupid but are unable to explain why it's allowed to occur so in fact you have nothing knowledgeable to contribute, JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER THREAD.
That's why all you can do is follow me around and point out little errors which are of no relevance to the discussions whatsoever, even though I offered you just piss off.
This behaviour is reminiscent of something else.. A DOG! Fetch boy! lol
Your not a woman by any chance are you? ;)
^ Yep, that's quite reprehensible...
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Yeah. And you have called contemporary top level boxers, fat, lazy, unskilled and unable to carry these old timers spit buckets! Don't be such a hypocrite!
Never said anything like that ever but you carry on making false accusations if it keeps you happy. :)
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Re: A look at Robinson and Mayweather- Modern vs Old timers part 2!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
I was just gonna follow up by adding that you should direct your attention to the Floyd's small dick thread because it's probably a subject you do know about.
But i see you've already found your way over there. Stick to what you know... Good job Max Power!
Haha what fun
:skiing: Its descending into penis sword fighting.
Whens the duel?
What ever happened to pistols at dawn?
Bring back old school fighting.;D
Fuel this fire...
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