Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
you take a CV to a job interview
boxers have records
gay people have resumes
:)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
you take a CV to a job interview
boxers have records
gay people have resumes
:)
A CV what does that stand for i don't think i have heard of that when i go to a job interview. UK must have a different encyclopedia for words or something i guess why is resume gay or you just trolling. This must be a English think i don't get because i am from the US or you just fucking around.
Hatton had ample chances to fight Mayweather at 140...plus...Ricky is a bigger man than Floyd...so the WW excuse doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterStop being a smart ass. Hatton really struggled at welterweight when he fought there before his fight with Floyd. Hatton best weight was light welter, he was the undisputed champion at the weight. If Floyd was not a welterweight then he would have fought him at light welter.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI don't get hurt. If someone says something stupid, I refute it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
When people say that Hatton was somehow diminished or not at his best because they fought at 147 instead of 140, that's stupid. It's completely idiotic when you put it up against common boxing knowledge.
And as far as Floyd being a true WW, that simply isn't true. He's a true WW in the sense that he is naturally 147, but that's not how boxing works due to weight cutting. A true WW is not a 147lb guy. A true WW is around or exceeding 160lbs. This has been shown with basically every "same day weight" statistic that HBO or another network has shown. Floyd is routinely out-weighed by upwards of 10lbs pretty much every time he fights.
He was outweighed by Ricky Hatton on fight day as well.
So do you....for all we know;DQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterFloyd has a good criminal record too.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I don't mind that Floyd fought Hatton at welter :-\ but the fact remains that he should have fought Tszyu while he was at 140 :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by cycloneHatton had ample chances to fight Mayweather at 140...plus...Ricky is a bigger man than Floyd...so the WW excuse doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterStop being a smart ass. Hatton really struggled at welterweight when he fought there before his fight with Floyd. Hatton best weight was light welter, he was the undisputed champion at the weight. If Floyd was not a welterweight then he would have fought him at light welter.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI don't get hurt. If someone says something stupid, I refute it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
When people say that Hatton was somehow diminished or not at his best because they fought at 147 instead of 140, that's stupid. It's completely idiotic when you put it up against common boxing knowledge.
And as far as Floyd being a true WW, that simply isn't true. He's a true WW in the sense that he is naturally 147, but that's not how boxing works due to weight cutting. A true WW is not a 147lb guy. A true WW is around or exceeding 160lbs. This has been shown with basically every "same day weight" statistic that HBO or another network has shown. Floyd is routinely out-weighed by upwards of 10lbs pretty much every time he fights.
He was outweighed by Ricky Hatton on fight day as well.
Mayweather was going to face kt but people forget that Hatton beat him and the fight fell through after words then he moved up to ww. I feel Mayweather has done enough to fighter of his generation i feel Srl was better fight still. A lot people wanted nothing to do with Mayweather when he was young and prime because he was not a huge drawer. I mean He asked to fight Shane and Oscar but they wanted none of it and also he was not a draw really. Mayweather retired before Cotto was wroth a shit and then lost Margarito also laugh at people say Cotto was out prime dude younger then Mayweather.
Mayweather had plenty off time to fight Tszyu before Hatton got to him, Floyd instead fought Corley, Bruseles and Gatti :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Listen they were going to have the fight it was set to happen after the Hatton fight but Kt got his ass kicked then knocked out so it was kinda nothing after that. Mayweather had few fights and cash fight when he moved up from 135 kt losing like early in his career cost him money this time Mayweather.
He should have fought Tszyu instead of Gatti ;) and if he was set to face Tszyu after Hatton then why not fight Hatton at 140 who won instead of moving up to face Mitchell :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Gatti was a money fight and a belt i do not Fault him for it because he was set up after word to face kt. Unfortunately Kt was knocked out by the under dog Hatton and i think he was still under Warren don't think deal was going to happen. Plus he moved up to 147 which kinda the divsion to be in to try to get a fight with Oscar which happen few years after so it paid off for him. 130, 140 and 154 really aren't weight classes great fighters stay at there kinda just step stone division not many great come out of just being champs at those weights. I fell money wise Mayweather made correct choice still fought guys better then Kt in my book who pretty overrated. I mean kt stayed in one division best win Judah lost in his prime against a journey man and never moved up to 147 division all greats end up there. Duran moved up Benetiz moved up, Pac moved up, Floyde moved up, and Oscar moved up its pretty much whats expected of most great fighters. So no i do not fault or think Mayweather has a duck there dude lost and did not get the fight i can not really blame another man loss on him seems kinda lame right.
Gatti was a money fight sure and a belt wow :o Tszyu was the champion and say what you want he had pretty much cleaned out the division :cool: what was the reason for Bruseles :confused: you either want to fight the best or you don't :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Same can be said about when he moved to 147. He didn't fight Margarito or Spinks along with Baldomir. He settled for Mitchell and Judah :-X
He fought Baldo what are talking about he fought him right after he beat Zab. He beat the man who everyone had ranked at the top in Zab and then beat the Lineal champ in Baldo don't see a problem with a warm up fight to start either. Tell who was Margaritos best win at 147 he had a 147 wbo trinket how is that better then being Lineal champ are you crazy. After he was the man at 147 he moved up and fought Oscar which should be a no brainier because most money was ever going to make. Not to mention the fight with Oscar made Mayweather a star Margarito was not shit back then he was a Trinket holder and he was not even a cash cow what is the point in that fight lets us be real now come on. I mean i don't care for Mayweather but some of you seem to be revising how it was at the time i mean Margarito i always hear his name was nothing back then.
I think your misunderstanding what I was saying. I meant he never fought Margarito, Spinks along with the Baldomir fight. I know Baldomir was champ. Now the thing is Spinks was the champ, Judah beat him, then Baldomir beat him, but instead of just fighting Baldomir he fought Judah :confused: I'm not saying fighting Margarito was better than fighting the lineal champ, I'm just saying fighting Margarito was better than fight Mitchell :p Margarito was the #1 ranked fighter at welter behind champions Spinks and then Judah. OK so Mayweather had his warm-up against Mitchell, what was wrong with fighting the number 1 guy next (Margarito) :confused: instead of Judah who was coming of a loss :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Juhda still had better wins and was more recognized then Margarito people wanted that fight at the time. I mean why was Margarito rated so high who the fuck did he beat really to have the ranking. Beat both the Lineal and Former Lineal champ and then moved up to fight Oscar not really Margarito duck.
He fought Santos x2 both stopped on cuts, Antonio Diaz, Perez, Lewis, Lujan, Cintron who were all rated in the top 10 at the time. Who the fuck did Mitchell beat :confused: Margarito was chasing the lineal championship but was avoided :-X I'll give Floyd a bye for DLH for the money but who did he return to fight at welter? Not Williams who had beaten Margarito or Cotto but Hatton who had looked shakey and was moving up :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Yet again talking about pound for pound guy who was a huge draw and people demanded that fight as well more so then Willaims. I mean at the time a lot of people were talking about how Hatton was going to be Mayweather toughest test. Cotto had a Close fight with 36 Mosley and Willaims just beat Margarito that was it and if happen pretty recent. I mean like people forget what people wanted at the time it was a huge fight at the time and they were building the fight before those guys were top people. I mean maybe i give you Willaims but even that was a stretch at the time and then Mayweather retired after said he was done with it. I mean Cotto and Paul were coming up really were not top guys yet the ww divsion was kinda all around and Hatton had off fight still won and was consider a top 10 pound for pound at the time not bad choice for Mayweather.
Hatton only got that P4P recognition from beating Tszyu who you said was over-rated :-\ Like I said originally that I didn't mind him fighting Hatton because he was a champion at a lower weight, but at the time all I remember on the forums was for Floyd to face Cotto or Williams ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
So he beats Hatton and then retires :confused: but instead of coming back against the top guy (Pacquiao) like Leonard did against Hagler (two weight classes higher I might add) he came back against a lightweight :-X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
hmm, you americans seem to have developed your English a lot
us UK people still use a certain sentence structure and something called punctuation
Floyd's fans can argue as much as they want but the fact that there is an eternal debate over his record alone speaks volumes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahmez
the only volumes it speaks is that he is the best and people are always going to try and disprove that
don't try and put some deep psycological nonsense on the fact that floyds RECORD being constantly debated proves he isn't that good
Take it however you want but there really isn't anything psychological about it. People constantly criticize his record because there's reason to. Don't know why you think that means they believe he isn't that good either. If anything its the other way around. Floyd frustrates a lot of people because of how good he actually is yet how unwilling he seems to be towards wanting to raise the stakes and put it on the line. That's why he doesn't get a "fair shake" and cries that no one appreciates him.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by jahmez
the only volumes it speaks is that he is the best and people are always going to try and disprove that
don't try and put some deep psycological nonsense on the fact that floyds RECORD being constantly debated proves he isn't that good
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahmezTake it however you want but there really isn't anything psychological about it. People constantly criticize his record because there's reason to. Don't know why you think that means they believe he isn't that good either. If anything its the other way around. Floyd frustrates a lot of people because of how good he actually is yet how unwilling he seems to be towards wanting to raise the stakes and put it on the line. That's why he doesn't get a "fair shake" and cries that no one appreciates him.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by jahmez
the only volumes it speaks is that he is the best and people are always going to try and disprove that
don't try and put some deep psycological nonsense on the fact that floyds RECORD being constantly debated proves he isn't that good
so are you saying it is constantly debated coz its so good?
So Mayweather came back and beat Jmm the same guy who later out boxed Pac and then knocked him out i think that is a ok comeback. I mean its not like what Leonard did but you can not mock that win really because that guy beat the shit out Pac after and he looked like a gatekeeper with Mayweather.
People shit on that win like it's nothing and chalk it up to Floyd missing weight or being the bigger man, but when you watch the fight Floyd didn't fight like the bigger man. He was quicker, smarter, and more talented than the smaller man. He countered the holy shit out of one of the best and most dangerous counter punchers of this generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Floyd made JMM look pedestrian, and that's something nobody has ever done before or after.
It's like when people dog Roy Jones for his competition and when you bring up a guy like James Toney, people say "oh well James wasn't in shape".
Roy Jones pitched a shut out vs PRIME James Toney. Sometimes you have to look past wins, ect and see how one guy handles a true elite fighter. When you're pitching shutouts against guys like James Toney and JMM, I don't want to hear excuses about it. That's a special talent.
When Floyd claims to be the greatest of all time then we are entitled to scritinise his record/resume/cv as much as we like because it does stand up to the claim that he is GOAT.
I'm not shitting on the win, just stating that for someone who claims to be the best ever his record is lacking :p when he came back he never fought the best fighter in his division (Pacquiao) :-\ OK so we give him another warm-up fight :p because he fought Mosley next, but then followed with Ortiz, Cotto and Guerrero :p
What everyone is saying that Floyd is a fantastic fighter :cool: but he needed certain fights to make him an all time great ;)
He is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
I don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
Well your just a hater then because he clearly isQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaI don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
So is Manny Pac then.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWell your just a hater then because he clearly isQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaI don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
Label me what you like son :o I always thought you were better than that :-X but Floyd is CLEARLY not an all time great or we wouldn't be having this debate :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWell your just a hater then because he clearly isQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaI don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
Bull Crap! JMM lost the fight with Floyd fight cause he can't handle the outside style plain and simple. Unless you think someone like Chris John belongs in the Top 50 P4P list of all time?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerPeople shit on that win like it's nothing and chalk it up to Floyd missing weight or being the bigger man, but when you watch the fight Floyd didn't fight like the bigger man. He was quicker, smarter, and more talented than the smaller man. He countered the holy shit out of one of the best and most dangerous counter punchers of this generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Floyd made JMM look pedestrian, and that's something nobody has ever done before or after.
Name 10 ATGsQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaLabel me what you like son :o I always thought you were better than that :-X but Floyd is CLEARLY not an all time great or we wouldn't be having this debate :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWell your just a hater then because he clearly isQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaI don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
In no particular order:Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeName 10 ATGsQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaLabel me what you like son :o I always thought you were better than that :-X but Floyd is CLEARLY not an all time great or we wouldn't be having this debate :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWell your just a hater then because he clearly isQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaI don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
Robinson
Armstrong
Ali
Greb
Pep
J. Wild
Duran
J. Johnson
J. Louis
B. Leonard
B. Ross
:D
Pep lost to a lot of fighters that were not as good as Floyds opposition. I also dont like to include fighters with Little to no footage so I would have Harry Greb on an ATG list, although he may very well deserve to be. Joe Louis fought a lot of bums and the only difference between him and floyd is fight numbers. Ray Robinson is the greatest ever in my opinion but I could not see Floyd losing to Jake La Motta. Johnson again as no footage I cant say but his record is nothing impressive. It would appear that you consider fighters from nowadays to be shit and are just including champions of old.Quote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaIn no particular order:Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeName 10 ATGsQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaLabel me what you like son :o I always thought you were better than that :-X but Floyd is CLEARLY not an all time great or we wouldn't be having this debate :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWell your just a hater then because he clearly isQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaI don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
Robinson
Armstrong
Ali
Greb
Pep
J. Wild
Duran
J. Johnson
J. Louis
B. Leonard
B. Ross
:D
You said name 10, nothing else about footage or whatnot :p where does it imply that I think fighters from nowadays are sh-t :confused: the funny thing is I haven't even mentioned guys like - R. Leonard, Hagler, Sanchez, Whitaker, Marciano, Charles, Moore, Saddler, Jofre, Arguello, Holyfield, Ike Williams, Gavilian, Chavez :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoePep lost to a lot of fighters that were not as good as Floyds opposition. I also dont like to include fighters with Little to no footage so I would have Harry Greb on an ATG list, although he may very well deserve to be. Joe Louis fought a lot of bums and the only difference between him and floyd is fight numbers. Ray Robinson is the greatest ever in my opinion but I could not see Floyd losing to Jake La Motta. Johnson again as no footage I cant say but his record is nothing impressive. It would appear that you consider fighters from nowadays to be shit and are just including champions of old.Quote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaIn no particular order:Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeName 10 ATGsQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaLabel me what you like son :o I always thought you were better than that :-X but Floyd is CLEARLY not an all time great or we wouldn't be having this debate :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWell your just a hater then because he clearly isQuote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaI don't consider him an all time great :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeHe is an all time great but he is lacking the fights to make himself the greatest or near the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
Robinson
Armstrong
Ali
Greb
Pep
J. Wild
Duran
J. Johnson
J. Louis
B. Leonard
B. Ross
:D
I just thought it strange you not include one fighter from the last 30 years on your list of 10, which made me think you dont rate this generation. I may have been wrong
Your a good dude Silkey and I'm enjoying the debate ;D I think Floyd could have beaten almost anyone put in front of him in this era :D unfortunately he never fought these fights :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
I would have liked to have seen Floyd clean out 130 against Casamayor and Frietas :D fights with Spadafora and Dorin (over Ndou and Sosa) :) Tszyu at 140 then Hatton :D instead of moving to 147 for Mitchell :confused: challenging Spinks for the championship and avoiding the whole necessity for the Baldomir-Judah situation :( after De La Hoya I would have like him to face Williams or Cotto but he retired when there were still challenges awaiting him (not forced like Leonard with his eyes or Ali with the courts) :-X when he returned he did't fight the best (Pacquiao) like Leonard did against Hagler at middleweight btw :D
casamayor and frietes never wanted any...nor did Tszyu.Quote:
Originally Posted by La CucarachaYour a good dude Silkey and I'm enjoying the debate ;D I think Floyd could have beaten almost anyone put in front of him in this era :D unfortunately he never fought these fights :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
I would have liked to have seen Floyd clean out 130 against Casamayor and Frietas :D fights with Spadafora and Dorin (over Ndou and Sosa) :) Tszyu at 140 then Hatton :D instead of moving to 147 for Mitchell :confused: challenging Spinks for the championship and avoiding the whole necessity for the Baldomir-Judah situation :( after De La Hoya I would have like him to face Williams or Cotto but he retired when there were still challenges awaiting him (not forced like Leonard with his eyes or Ali with the courts) :-X when he returned he did't fight the best (Pacquiao) like Leonard did against Hagler at middleweight btw :D
Zoo said he'd fight the best...then chose Hatton;D
Cotto not once tried to get Floyd in the ring back then...he just admitted it before their fight.
"Arum not once mentioned fighting Mayweather"
Cotto said himself he NEVER asked or pushed for the fight.
Williams...lol....never had anything Floyd wanted..if he did he would have easilly taken it.