Printable View
As much has I love Tyson, I want to points out that prime Ali before the suspension was INSANE combination punchers, he could do it moving in all directions. So no, it is not just movign and sticking jab like he did in his late yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell Joe Louis lost 3 years and it's hardly ever mentionedQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe did nothing but box when he was in the US army He was used for propaganda purposes he never stopped training & fighting exhibitions Ali was banned from even training & sparring for 3 1/2 years. If Ali had been inducted we know very well where he'd have been sent
The great part about all this is everyone has their own opinion one is no more important than the others. It wouldn't be fun if we all agreed on everything
Cassius Clay
~ Fun-Filled Fact #16 ~
Cassius Clay {1st-Reign}, never fought a 'Young Buck'.
Could a younger Mike Tyson defeat a 24 year-old Cassius Clay.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Damn right he could. You wouldn't believe what us young Adult's can do. I was the 'Princess of Porn' at Age; 17. "
Traci Lords ..... {1985}
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.jwHR...A&pid=15.1&P=0
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
No we didn't see Clay because he chose not to fight for the country that had made him rich , because he was a coward.
That is Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
No we didn't see Clay because he chose not to fight for the country that had made him rich , because he was a coward.
C-O-W-A-R-D
Not in the sense of 'Chicken'. But in the sense of 'Love of Country'.
On Memorial Day, many wish the 'old bastard' many more years of suffering.
Why the capital 'G' in ~warninGs~, Adam? I know, you 'accidentally' `"`thumbed`"` the <SHIFT> key. Now THAT is polite. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWho said anything about refs or warninGs? Don't put words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
It's not polite to put stuff in other men's mouths Brock... :-X
Doesn't prove anything. Mike has always gone out of his way to (at least appear to) be respectful and humble when talking about the greats that came before him.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
He said prime Holmes would have whipped him. He said his punching power is nothing compared to guys like Shavers and Holmes. At the end of the day he was brought up by Cus as a boxing nerd and he has the same respect for these guys as we do.
I'll just leave this here. It says more than typed words ever could.
MIKE TYSON #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-x_AP0r-Gc
I find it hilarious that the rabid Tyson fans believe that the ONLY person that could ever beat Mike Tyson is ....Mike Tyson :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Tyson didn't get beat by Buster Douglas....Tyson beat Tyson
Tyson didn't get beat by Evander Holyfield....Tyson was past his prime/he didn't train
Tyson didn't get beat by Lennox Lewis....Tyson was past his prime
Tyson was well past his prime by the time Williams and McBride got to him (which I will agree with, but Jesus when did Tyson lose a fight because the other fighter was better???)
Well he was passed his prime when he fought Holyfield (just like Ali was passed his prime after he came back from his ban), and certainly well passed his prime when he fought Lewis.
I think there are a guys in history who would have had a decent to real good chance of beating prime Tyson (Lennox included), I just don't think Ali's stick and move style was the one to do it.
45(39 KO)-1; 222 pounds, 30 years old....is past his prime Tyson? And Holyfield 32(23 KO)-3-0; 215 pounds, who had retired previously for his heart condition and was 34 years old was what in his prime?!?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Come on man
You know Tyson burned out early because of his style so you should know better than to put chronological age into this debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong45(39 KO)-1; 222 pounds, 30 years old....is past his prime Tyson? And Holyfield 32(23 KO)-3-0; 215 pounds, who had retired previously for his heart condition and was 34 years old was what in his prime?!?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Come on man
Different guys peak at different times in their lives/careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
We've seen guys washed up at mid 20s. We've seen guys not hit their best until their 30s.
Would you pick mid 20's Wlad to beat mid 30's Wlad? Conversely, would you pick mid 30s Pernell Whitaker to beat mid 20's Pernell Whitaker?
People say RJJ beat Hopkins before he entered his prime... he was 28 when they fought!
If you're saying 30-36 year old Tyson was in any way comparable to 22 year old Tyson, you're just "taking the piss" as the Brits say.
Master, forgive him - for he knows not what he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He does know, which is the worse thing about it, as he has cited it himself. The funny thing is he is not an Ali fan so it must hurt him to say what he is posting. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerMaster, forgive him - for he knows not what he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Haha well Muhammad Ali was no push over so I can understand why people would pick him over Tyson.
Me personally though I just think it's the wrong style to beat Tyson. I don't think Tyson was an unbeatable demigod, but I think he was a guy you had to stand your ground against in some regards (like Buster did), know when to stand firm and know when to move.
If I want to send a guy in to whip prime Tyson's ass, I'm sending Lennox, not Ali.
Ali was far from a coward. It would have been easier to be inducted and do public tours and events. Instead he gave up millions, hated by many (including Bill Paxtom who has not forgiven him til this day) and gave up prime years of his career because of his political/religious convictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
No we didn't see Clay because he chose not to fight for the country that had made him rich , because he was a coward.
Ali was later proved right.
Say what you like, and I am no big fan of Ali or Klitschko, but if you really think they are both bums then you are being just as daft as people who think that they are TBE. Tyson was a great fighter but he is nothing like as great as some of his more rabid fans would have you believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Ali had a bad style for Tyson. Ali was tall but also had very long arms, he moved extremely well....those things are bad for Tyson. Why? Tyson was short, stocky, short arms, a power puncher who needed to have his feet set to get pop on his punches. YES Tyson had great footwork for a pressure fighter and power puncher, YES Tyson had great handspeed but Ali's skill set was the perfect defense for everything Tyson had to offer.
Would it be a great fight? Fuck yeah, it's a brilliant hypothetical matchup! But just like the old boxing saying "I'll take a good big guy over a great little guy every time" ...you've got Tyson who is picture perfect THE quintessential power punching pressure fighter and then you have Ali who has every single bit of kryptonite that style could ever have. Ali was bigger, Ali was more mobile, Ali was longer, Ali was durable, Ali had better stamina (undeniable), Ali could get up and win a fight (Tyson NEVER did), Ali never got cut, Ali was probably the psychologically strongest fighter ever.....sure Tyson was intimidating, but Ali was unintimidatable ....and that's not even a fucking word man!!!!
No shift key on a phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustWhy the capital 'G' in ~warninGs~, Adam? I know, you 'accidentally' `"`thumbed`"` the <SHIFT> key. Now THAT is polite. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWho said anything about refs or warninGs? Don't put words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
It's not polite to put stuff in other men's mouths Brock... :-X
Thumbs down for you
Cassius Clay was a 'Moral Coward'.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli was far from a coward. It would have been easier to be inducted and do public tours and events. Instead he gave up millions, hated by many (including Bill Paxtom who has not forgiven him til this day) and gave up prime years of his career because of his political/religious convictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
No we didn't see Clay because he chose not to fight for the country that had made him rich , because he was a coward.
Ali was later proved right.
He didn't just walk away in 1967. Doing that would have showed 'massive balls'.
The guy had 'a litany' of Lawyers doing his fighting for him.
That is a Correct Statement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't say that. Or you will make him cry. Look, the 'Emperor' has no clothes, and neither do I."
Leslie Ann Warren.......... 'Oh Yummy'
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...q_FtyzGFk3KoEw
You must have the 'Sears Special' phone. All i-phones have shift keys on their keyboards. That, combined with your small size and soggy bun, leave you finishing in dead last.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBNo shift key on a phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustWhy the capital 'G' in ~warninGs~, Adam? I know, you 'accidentally' `"`thumbed`"` the <SHIFT> key. Now THAT is polite. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWho said anything about refs or warninGs? Don't put words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
It's not polite to put stuff in other men's mouths Brock... :-X
Thumbs down for you
Tyson had too much power for Ali. Guys like Ken Norton shattered Ali's skull with looping right hands and average-strength left hooks. Watch this fight and look at the damage to Ali's skull and brain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxZ4RshQYE8
Tyson would absolutely KILL Ali. Inside 6 rounds. Too much brute force and power and he would get inside and destroy him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongQuote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerPshh now I know you ain't comparing Floyd Patterson and prime Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Kevin Rooney had the same style too. Mike made that shit work like no one else... come on man!
Power punchers have to set their feet....Tyson wouldn't have been able to get those feet set vs Ali, I'm sorry man but Tyson was human even in 1988.
Tyson was one of those rare individuals (back in late 80's) who could knock your head into the 10th row with a massive hook that would connect while both feet were off the ground. So while conventional wisdom says power punchers have to set their feet.... Tyson was a whole 'nother animal back then. Also agree with Bean about please not comparing Patterson to Tyson in any shape or form. No way.... no how. Tyson was faster.... and logarithmically more powerful.
I think you're referring the caps modifier :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBNo shift key on a phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustWhy the capital 'G' in ~warninGs~, Adam? I know, you 'accidentally' `"`thumbed`"` the <SHIFT> key. Now THAT is polite. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWho said anything about refs or warninGs? Don't put words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
It's not polite to put stuff in other men's mouths Brock... :-X
Thumbs down for you
You must have the 'Sears Special' phone. All i-phones have shift keys on their keyboards. That, combined with your small size and soggy bun, leave you finishing in dead last.
Have salad with the burger, no fries for you... I've seen you jiggling up that hill and tossing pebbles off it.
One thing about the Cus system; it is reflex based. Being so square you always have to react to straight punches. When Floyd slowed a bit he moved his feet into a more traditional stance. Tyson stuck to the system.
I agree, Tyson was great at getting in on guys. Quick feet, jabbed his way in, and lunged in with fast punches if he had to. I mean you look at a guy like Liston... he was moving in slow motion compared to Tyson. Mike was just a different beast, if Ali was going to beat him he was going to have to go through hell to do it. There's no way Ali dances around Mike for 12-15 rounds like he's tiptoeing through the tulips, that just wouldn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongQuote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerPshh now I know you ain't comparing Floyd Patterson and prime Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Kevin Rooney had the same style too. Mike made that shit work like no one else... come on man!
Power punchers have to set their feet....Tyson wouldn't have been able to get those feet set vs Ali, I'm sorry man but Tyson was human even in 1988.
Tyson was one of those rare individuals (back in late 80's) who could knock your head into the 10th row with a massive hook that would connect while both feet were off the ground. So while conventional wisdom says power punchers have to set their feet.... Tyson was a whole 'nother animal back then. Also agree with Bean about please not comparing Patterson to Tyson in any shape or form. No way.... no how. Tyson was faster.... and logarithmically more powerful.
Brockton Tyson isn't Ken Norton and styles make fights.
As for the jumping left hook...when launching Mike would have to have set his feet in order to get that leaping left hook off.
Again Ali is all wrong for Tyson
Computer Program ~ Atlantic 707-XR
Mike Tyson Defeats Cassius Clay By 15-Round Decision
Round 1 is 'Even', as Mike Tyson purses a circling Cassius Clay. Neither fighter lands an
effective punch.
Mike Tyson's constant pressure and hard-hitting carries him successfully in Rounds 2 thru 4.
In Round 5, during an exchange, Tyson 'rattles' Clay with a hard left-hook to the jaw, sending
Cassius back outside and moving away, by circling to his left.
Tyson continues with heavy-pressure and short power-punches during Rounds 6, 7 and 8.
Each time that Tyson lands a left-hook to the head, Clay is jolted. But the fleet-footed Clay
does not go down, and relies on his quick-feet to keep him from getting nailed from Tyson's
follow ups.
Also, Clay uses his long-arms to tie up Tyson when he gets in too-close.
In Round 9, Clay finally has a 'winning' Round, as he is able to score with left-jabs from
the perimeter, as Tyson has slowed down a bit with his aggressive pressure attack.
Clay continues with his jabbing in Round 10, and is doing well for the first {1:30}. But out
of nowhere, Tyson explodes with a barrage, and lands a big left-hook on Clay's jaw that
staggers him, and sends him reeling backwards and into the Corner.
Clay is hurt, and Tyson moves in and starts digging in with short 'Ram-Rod' punches that have
Clay bending in pain.
But Clay 'grabs' Tyson and holds on tightly, preventing him from landing a finisher. Tyson tries
to break free from the Clay's arms and starts to hit at the Belt-Line. After throwing '3' left-hands
on the 'line', Clay is asking the Referee for help at the {2:00 Mark}.
Referee - John Thomas moves in and calls > "Break. Hold it right there Tyson."
The Referee sends Tyson to a 'Neutral-Corner', and allows Cassius time to recover from the
low-blows.
Cassius takes a 'full' 2-Minutes to get his 'balls' out his stomach.
Referee - John Thomas walks over to Mike Tyson and yells >
"That's all I want to see of that Shit. You do that one more time, and I just may Disqualify you.
Do you hear me. Keep them above the 'black' Belt-Line."
Computer Program ~ Atlantic 707-XR
Mike Tyson Defeats Cassius Clay By 15-Round Decision
Round 1 is 'Even', as Mike Tyson purses a circling Cassius Clay. Neither fighter lands an
effective punch.
Mike Tyson's constant pressure and hard-hitting carries him successfully in Rounds 2 thru 4,
as Cassius is forced to back away and circle.
In Round 5, during an exchange, Tyson 'rattles' Clay with a hard left-hook to the jaw, sending
Cassius back outside and moving away, and circling to his left.
Tyson continues with heavy-pressure and short power-punches during Rounds 6 and 7.
Each time that Tyson lands a left-hook to the head, Clay is jolted. But the fleet-footed Clay
does not go down, and relies on his quick-feet to keep him from getting nailed from Tyson's
follow ups.
Also, Clay uses his long-arms to tie up Tyson when he gets in too-close.
In Round 8, Clay finally has a 'winning' Round, as he is able to score with left-jabs from
the perimeter, as Tyson has slowed down a bit with his aggressive pressure attack.
Clay continues with his jabbing in Round 9, and is doing well for the first {1:30}. But out
of nowhere, Tyson explodes with a barrage, and lands a big left-hook on Clay's jaw that
'staggers' him, and sends him reeling backwards and into a Corner.
Clay is hurt, and Tyson moves in and starts digging in with short 'Ram-Rod' punches that have
Clay bending in pain.
But Clay 'grabs' Tyson and holds on tightly, preventing him from landing a finisher. Tyson tries
to break free from the Clay's arms and starts to hit at the Belt-Line. After throwing '3' left-hands
on the 'line', Clay is asking the Referee for help at the {2:00 Mark}.
Referee - John Thomas moves in and calls > "Break. Hold it right there Tyson."
The Referee sends Tyson to a 'Neutral-Corner', and allows Cassius time to recover from the
low-blows.
Cassius takes a 'full' 2-Minutes to get his 'balls' out his stomach.
Referee - John Thomas walks over to Mike Tyson and yells >
"That's all I want to see of that Shit. You do that one more time, and I just may Disqualify you.
Do you hear me. Keep them above the 'black' Belt-Line."
It be a pick em fight it is not like they have face a caliber of fighter like one another i think Ali might faced guys closer to Tyson then the other way around. It would be a dirty fight with alot of holding running and jabbing but i think Ali could get the win but i would not put money on it.
....indeed, which you misused on the "warninGs" gem. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBI think you're referring the caps modifier :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBNo shift key on a phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustWhy the capital 'G' in ~warninGs~, Adam? I know, you 'accidentally' `"`thumbed`"` the <SHIFT> key. Now THAT is polite. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWho said anything about refs or warninGs? Don't put words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
It's not polite to put stuff in other men's mouths Brock... :-X
Thumbs down for you
You must have the 'Sears Special' phone. All i-phones have shift keys on their keyboards. That, combined with your small size and soggy bun, leave you finishing in dead last.
Have salad with the burger, no fries for you... I've seen you jiggling up that hill and tossing pebbles off it.
As for salads, you sure are a tosser mOOOOOHAHAHA :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
No we didn't see Clay because he chose not to fight for the country that had made him rich , because he was a coward.
Absolutely untrue. Ali was a very brave man . He was a devout Muslim & lived by their laws. Whether you agree with his beliefs or not is immaterial you are calling him a coward. Ali could have just up & left the country gone to Canada or England I'm sure they'd have welcomed him there & let him fight. But as he said he would He STAYED put faced the music what ever they decided to do with him. If he refused induction because he was a coward & used hisw religious beliefs as an excuse explain why he is STILL as devout believer 50 yrs later??????
Like Ive said many times before a certain William Jefferson Clinton bailed out to avoid the draft he went to England. What was his punishment for cowardice?? You made him President of the United States>!!! I rest my case
C J Rock,
You are 'very wrong' on Cassius Clay just up and leaving, and going to Canada or England
to live and continue boxing.
#1 > The United States Justice Department 'yanked' his Passport.
#2 > No other country wanted him.
#3 > All of the other Boxing Commissions {other Countries} followed in suit what the
NYSAC {New York State Athletic Commission} did, which was ban Mr. Clay.
#4 > The WBA stripped Cassius of his Title, and informed all other WBA contenders to
'Stay away from Clay'.
So basically, Cassius Clay 'Fucked' himself.
MooooMooooMOOOHAHAQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Mike Tyson's punches were at least twice as powerful as nortons or Joe Frazier's therefore even a few glancing shots from a 20 year old Mike Tyson would have put Cassius Clay to sleep forever
Truth, and unlike Frazier, Mike could knock you out with one punch with BOTH hands, with just about any punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Yes lets face it Clay calls himself the Greatest but he clearly isn't.
Joe Frazier and Ken Norton , does anyone think they are top draw ? both had suspect chins when they faced power punchers.
Both guys gave him hell.
Ali beat the said puncher that beat both Frazier and Norton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al