Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
If I was a hundred percent sure it was the right person I probably would. As far as the government using torture, if you could guarantee me they had the right person and could save lives I'd be all for torture. Unfortunately, I don't have the faith government will get it right. For the same reason I'm against the death penalty, the government does convict the innocent plus I don't think the government should have the power to take life. It just seems to me britkid, and I say this with respect as you are obviously not an idiot, but you have too much faith in government. I think communism and socialism invest more power in the government which I don't see as a good thing.
I don't know if you've read it across the pond but the past mayor of New York actually outlawed large sized soda and certain saturated fats in NYC. That to me is a travesty, what is worse is this idiot Bloomberg was 're elected. That in itself should be considered an abuse of power. Damn, that one pisses me off.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
If I was a hundred percent sure it was the right person I probably would. As far as the government using torture, if you could guarantee me they had the right person and could save lives I'd be all for torture. Unfortunately, I don't have the faith government will get it right. For the same reason I'm against the death penalty, the government does convict the innocent plus I don't think the government should have the power to take life. It just seems to me britkid, and I say this with respect as you are obviously not an idiot, but you have too much faith in government. I think communism and socialism invest more power in the government which I don't see as a good thing.
I don't know if you've read it across the pond but the past mayor of New York actually outlawed large sized soda and certain saturated fats in NYC. That to me is a travesty, what is worse is this idiot Bloomberg was 're elected. That in itself should be considered an abuse of power. Damn, that one pisses me off.
I struggle to have faith with the Government, hence my want for ultimately micro governance through direct democracy.
But the examples you gave are two good reasons for state control. There is an obesity problem in the Developed world, the size of drinks in the UK are ridiculously big, so banning them would make sense. Also in the use of certain saturated fats; particularly when in the UK the state pays long term for your healthcare, there does need to be a personal responsibility to look after yourself, at least to a basic level, and if you cannot do that then the state does need to get involved.
But I do recognize a lot of Americans have a different outlook on these things, and indeed I would be very naive to think my general views are anywhere near a majority in the UK, indeed, that they are are even on the mainstream political landscape.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
If I was a hundred percent sure it was the right person I probably would. As far as the government using torture, if you could guarantee me they had the right person and could save lives I'd be all for torture. Unfortunately, I don't have the faith government will get it right. For the same reason I'm against the death penalty, the government does convict the innocent plus I don't think the government should have the power to take life. It just seems to me britkid, and I say this with respect as you are obviously not an idiot, but you have too much faith in government. I think communism and socialism invest more power in the government which I don't see as a good thing.
I don't know if you've read it across the pond but the past mayor of New York actually outlawed large sized soda and certain saturated fats in NYC. That to me is a travesty, what is worse is this idiot Bloomberg was 're elected. That in itself should be considered an abuse of power. Damn, that one pisses me off.
I struggle to have faith with the Government, hence my want for ultimately micro governance through direct democracy.
But the examples you gave are two good reasons for state control. There is an obesity problem in the Developed world, the size of drinks in the UK are ridiculously big, so banning them would make sense. Also in the use of certain saturated fats; particularly when in the UK the state pays long term for your healthcare, there does need to be a personal reasonability to look after yourself, at least to a basic level, and if you cannot do that then the state does need to get involved.
But I do recognize a lot of Americans have a different outlook on these things, and indeed I would be very naive to think my general views are anywhere near a majority in the UK, indeed, that they are are even on the mainstream political landscape.
Yes, your views are quite unique, and many have merit but on one hand you want the government to have increased power and on the other you call for direct democracy. So the people have to wait until the government seizes more power until democracy kicks in. When the government gets into what types and sizes of food we eat, we in the US call that a nanny state. Now if you have a direct democracy and the people vote for smaller drink portions, which would be ridiculous, I can deal with that. I find it interesting you are so versed in Marx and Lenin and yet mention direct democracy. If I'm not mistaken, I believe ancient Greece did have a direct democracy but I say that only having heard it in discussion. Do you know direct democracies that have existed throughout history, I'm going to Google it to see if I'm right.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
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Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
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Originally Posted by
walrus
So you feel not protecting property rights and giving government more power would be part of this answer.
Yes, ultimately no one would 'own' property, it should eventually 'belong' to the 'syndicate', but initially that would be the state, as a part of an interim Socialist Federation. More 'government power' would occur, but under a form of Direct Democracy.
So.....mob rule is best?
In general terms, yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5j4DIellR4
Mob rule is how individuals of a minority status be it economic, race, creed, sexual orientation, religion, etc get demonized to the point where the majority see no harm in killing off the "non-believers" those who do not assimilate. That's how you get your Holocausts, your Holomodors, your Great Leap Forwards, that's how you get leaders that say "1 death is a tragedy, a million deaths are but a statistic".
Rule of Law, property rights, limited government, liberty...those are very important concepts that direct democracies/mob rule do not value.
And no doubt you're anti-gun as well correct?
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Good point el kabong, I was looking into the founding fathers debates on direct democracy. One of the reasons they were against it was to protect the minority from the majority or as Franklin said, the tyranny of the majority. Strange as we had slaves who weren't even regarded as humans at the time but that is how it was in the day. Apparently, Switzerland has a few aspects of direct democracy which at one tome prevented almost 90 percent of laws being passed. Switzerland borrowed many aspects of our constitution especially during the late 1800's
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Walrus is a c*** who does fake driveway paving projects
Brock is now an ex member of my band, I dropped him like Pete Best
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
And no doubt you're anti-gun as well correct?
Indeed!
As for the rest of your views; it should be noted, nothing, and I mean nothing has come close to killing the amount of people Capitalism has.
Human rights are a different kettle of fish, that need World wide not State wide consensus.
I have made it clear I would pick a form of Anarcho Syndicalism, because economy it would help a majority, a majority that Capitalism no longer cares for or indeed even serves without State help.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
So you feel not protecting property rights and giving government more power would be part of this answer.
Yes, ultimately no one would 'own' property, it should eventually 'belong' to the 'syndicate', but initially that would be the state, as a part of an interim Socialist Federation. More 'government power' would occur, but under a form of Direct Democracy.
So.....mob rule is best?
In general terms, yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5j4DIellR4
Mob rule is how individuals of a minority status be it economic, race, creed, sexual orientation, religion, etc get demonized to the point where the majority see no harm in killing off the "non-believers" those who do not assimilate. That's how you get your Holocausts, your Holomodors, your Great Leap Forwards, that's how you get leaders that say "1 death is a tragedy, a million deaths are but a statistic".
Rule of Law, property rights, limited government, liberty...those are very important concepts that direct democracies/mob rule do not value.
And no doubt you're anti-gun as well correct?
Indeed!
I'm not surprised.
Historically that kind of idea/political set up has lead to millions upon millions of deaths
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I'm not surprised.
Historically that kind of idea/political set up has lead to millions upon millions of deaths
More people, on average, are killed by a gun in ten hours in the US than in the entire year of 2014 in the UK. That seems pretty damning of your country's gun culture to me.
And that you seem to bring it up time and again... Have some confidence in yourself, I accept you are a man, you do not need a gun to prove that!
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
And no doubt you're anti-gun as well correct?
Indeed!
As for the rest of your views; it should be noted, nothing, and I mean nothing has come close to killing the amount of people Capitalism has.
Human rights are a different kettle of fish, that need World wide not State wide consensus.
I have made it clear I would pick a form of Anarcho Syndicalism, because economy it would help a majority, a majority that Capitalism no longer cares for or indeed even serves without State help.
On that one you are wrong, Mao and Stalin alone killed far more than any capitalist regime, I'm surprised you would make that statement
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
And no doubt you're anti-gun as well correct?
Indeed!
As for the rest of your views; it should be noted, nothing, and I mean nothing has come close to killing the amount of people Capitalism has.
Human rights are a different kettle of fish, that need World wide not State wide consensus.
I have made it clear I would pick a form of Anarcho Syndicalism, because economy it would help a majority, a majority that Capitalism no longer cares for or indeed even serves without State help.
On that one you are wrong, Mao and Stalin alone killed far more than any capitalist regime, I'm surprised you would make that statement
Come on; Stalin and Mao were not directly involved in both world wars. They were not involved in for lack of a better term, the Modern Crusades. They were not directly involved (but no doubt proxy) in Korea or Vietnam. They were not alive for the Balkan slaughters of the 90s. They were not born/too young to be involved in the horrors of the British Empire in the 18/19th Century. Or France's, Germany's and indeed America's attempts to grab/control land in the 19th and 20th Centuries. They did not get involved in Ireland's Independence battles with the UK, or the struggles of the 'then' India and African countries attempts to gain independence.
Mao and Stalin were indeed responsible for the death of Millions, but Capitalism is in a completely different league when it comes to killing their enemies...
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
And no doubt you're anti-gun as well correct?
Indeed!
As for the rest of your views; it should be noted, nothing, and I mean nothing has come close to killing the amount of people Capitalism has.
Human rights are a different kettle of fish, that need World wide not State wide consensus.
I have made it clear I would pick a form of Anarcho Syndicalism, because economy it would help a majority, a majority that Capitalism no longer cares for or indeed even serves without State help.
On that one you are wrong, Mao and Stalin alone killed far more than any capitalist regime, I'm surprised you would make that statement
Come on; Stalin and Mao were not directly involved in both world wars. They were not involved in for lack of a better term, the Modern Crusades. They were not directly involved (but no doubt proxy) in Korea or Vietnam. They were not alive for the Balkan slaughters of the 90s. They were not born/too young to be involved in the horrors of the British Empire in the 18/19th Century. Or France's, Germany's and indeed America's attempts to grab/control land in the 19th and 20th Centuries. They did not get involved in Ireland's Independence battles with the UK, or the struggles of the 'then' India and African countries attempts to gain independence.
Mao and Stalin were indeed responsible for the death of Millions, but Capitalism is in a completely different league when it comes to killing their enemies...
Hahahahahaha
Mao alone killed more of his own people than died in ww 2. Stalin was just as sick
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Mao alone killed more of his own people than died in ww 2. Stalin was just as sick
I would not doubt that; but neither compares to Capitalism. And despite its initial benefits, its mechanisms are such, it takes killing humans to a whole new level; that no other known 'ism' has come close to.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Mao alone killed more of his own people than died in ww 2. Stalin was just as sick
I would not doubt that; but neither compares to Capitalism. And despite its initial benefits, its mechanisms are such, it takes killing humans to a whole new level; that no other known 'ism' has come close to.
I don't know britkid. I don't see capitalism as the killer. May be the battle between the isms has more fault. Perhaps you are suggesting capitalism kills in order to keep capital flowing? Communism kills in order to maintain centralized power.I think we are wandering off the topic itself and blaming the institution instead of the sickness of man. You are much more versed in communism than I. What do you think Lenin would think of the two major communist countries that were founded and how they were founded and maintained. I can't see how you agree with me that Mao killed more people to maintain his communist regime than were killed in ww 2 and yet fall back on capitalism as the worst killer. Between Mao and Stalin we are talking over 100 million dead people. Beats capitalism hands down. Still, if Mao and Stalin were more interested in achieving a true communist country rather than a stranglehold on power perhaps it would have been different. Communism allowed these idiots to do what they did as they hid behind a power structure that allowed this to happen. No, capitalism is not a perfect system but I would not put a label of murderer upon it. Wars have been happening on this planet long before capitalism or communism came about. After millennia of warfare and killing to call capitalism the culprit seems shortsighted.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
I just meant to quote him not change his post. Sorry and bye.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Mao alone killed more of his own people than died in ww 2. Stalin was just as sick
I would not doubt that; but neither compares to Capitalism. And despite its initial benefits, its mechanisms are such, it takes killing humans to a whole new level; that no other known 'ism' has come close to.
:rolleyes:
Yes all while it evilly raised the living standards of millions.....EEEEEVIL capitalism :vd:
The "poor" in America have fucking televisions, washers & driers, microwaves....compare that to ooooh I don't know the average person in China or North Korea. Really? Really? Are you kidding me? And even if you were to say "Well America has a system of welfare which provides acess to those things"....how do we pay for oh that's right CAPITALISM.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2204/2...a45_z.jpg?zz=1
Just because Dear Leader can get a road built doesn't mean it's going to benefit anyone. Capitalism pays off for everyone willing to put in a shift...communism and socialism takes away from everyone stupid enough to put in a shift.
Re: Europe is too much of a soft touch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-mUZRP-fpo
Now be sure you understand who produced this video Britkid...Vox, which is run by lefty nerdalinger Ezra Klein.
But hey, Capitalism is the killer eh.... $20 a month....what a paradise :rolleyes:
