It is probably the US-centric perspective - "American fighters are the greatest, y'all!". It is of course complete bollocks, but a daft nationalist is as a daft nationalist does.
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It is probably the US-centric perspective - "American fighters are the greatest, y'all!". It is of course complete bollocks, but a daft nationalist is as a daft nationalist does.
I am from the us and i use to think less of Calzaghe then i do now i watch a lot of his fights and Hopkins and look at the guys they fought and really there no difference. The big thing is he beat guys like Tito who was ok mw and Oscar who did not belong at that weight at all but they were big names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
No, I'm not saying that's how you think as you obviously have a sensible head on you, but a lot of boxing fans are a bit simple and see things on a racial or nationalist level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140I am from the us and i use to think less of Calzaghe then i do now i watch a lot of his fights and Hopkins and look at the guys they fought and really there no difference. The big thing is he beat guys like Tito who was ok mw and Oscar who did not belong at that weight at all but they were big names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I am British and love Calzaghe, Toney and Barrera on an equal level. It's all about skills, looks and charm for me. If you have those things I might well become a fan. I like Golovkin a lot, but Calzaghe was just better looking, had that cute Welsh lilt in his voice, and could impersonate a windmill.
Watching a few rounds of that again I'd love to see Roy deal with Golovkin's pressure. BHop would need to butt him to death.
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Originally Posted by Andre
Hopkins had one of the best wins of his career after Joe beat him. He wasn't prime Hopkins but he wasn't fighting prime Joe either.
and Roberto Duran beat Iran Barkley in 1989....nobody is saying you can't get a big win after you're past your peak it's just unexpected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
There is very little Golovkin could do to beat Joe in his prime. Calzaghe is superirior in all departments except maybe punch power.
He was knocked down by older fighters.....doesn't bode well for a prime Joe fighting a Prime GGG but as I stated "We don't know if GGG's power carries to 168" and it's a question I certainly ask about the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Not sure how GGG power would be if he moved up another weight class like would he be like Kessler or maybe a Froch. Thats the thing i am wondering because Pavlik had some power at 160 and when he moved up to fight his power seemed to really lose it steam which surprised me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Prime Joe had a rock solid chin in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe was knocked down by older fighters.....doesn't bode well for a prime Joe fighting a Prime GGG but as I stated "We don't know if GGG's power carries to 168" and it's a question I certainly ask about the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I have to say i agree the only times i seen him knocked down was when he was in his late 30's and not like he was wobble kinda got up. Then he went on win all the rounds i mean everyone can be knocked down and not like Hopkins and Jones were weak punchers or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterPrime Joe had a rock solid chin in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe was knocked down by older fighters.....doesn't bode well for a prime Joe fighting a Prime GGG but as I stated "We don't know if GGG's power carries to 168" and it's a question I certainly ask about the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Jones was a forearm, Byron was a wild sucker punch coming in and Hopkins has that right hand against southpaw which he has perfected but all later in his career. Prime Joe took the bombs of Eubank when he was shattered in his title fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140I have to say i agree the only times i seen him knocked down was when he was in his late 30's and not like he was wobble kinda got up. Then he went on win all the rounds i mean everyone can be knocked down and not like Hopkins and Jones were weak punchers or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterPrime Joe had a rock solid chin in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe was knocked down by older fighters.....doesn't bode well for a prime Joe fighting a Prime GGG but as I stated "We don't know if GGG's power carries to 168" and it's a question I certainly ask about the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
RJJ has knocked out WHO since 2002? B-Hop has knocked out WHO since the losses to Taylor?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJones was a forearm, Byron was a wild sucker punch coming in and Hopkins has that right hand against southpaw which he has perfected but all later in his career. Prime Joe took the bombs of Eubank when he was shattered in his title fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140I have to say i agree the only times i seen him knocked down was when he was in his late 30's and not like he was wobble kinda got up. Then he went on win all the rounds i mean everyone can be knocked down and not like Hopkins and Jones were weak punchers or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterPrime Joe had a rock solid chin in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe was knocked down by older fighters.....doesn't bode well for a prime Joe fighting a Prime GGG but as I stated "We don't know if GGG's power carries to 168" and it's a question I certainly ask about the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yeah, not many big names on there.....but those guys did knock down Joe Calzaghe, just sayin'
Calzaghe had a good engine and he could still punch a bit for a guy with very bad hands, he was on the sideline with injuries being his hands.
Joe took a lot of stick but in reality he was told not to box by his specialist but he did.
He was injured going in the Lacy fight and wanted to pull but he went ahead and gave a magnificent performance punch perfect.
A boxer fighting with bad hand which are the tools of his trade, imagine the pain that's why I like Joe he managed to win fighting injured continually.
Joe Calzaghe is one of the best fighters this Country has ever had that's a fact.
Yeah and I don't doubt a single word of that.....he just wasn't better than RJJ or Hopkins in their pomp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Jones I will give you but not Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYeah and I don't doubt a single word of that.....he just wasn't better than RJJ or Hopkins in their pomp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I can see saying Jones but Hopkins has done nothing to set him self apart from Calzaghe. Kessler is a better win then anything Hopkins has really and Calzaghe win over older Hopkins is better then anything Hop has done. I mean there wins are the same in there weaker division they both had shit ton of defenses and both were champs in a few division. Tito not a great win because he was never any thing at mw had a good win thats it and Oscar was never even a mw. Lacy for all his hype was beating guys at his weight, Kessler better then anyone hop faced at mw not mention Calzaghe has not lost at his weight class either. Also with prime Hopkins when exactly is it when he beat Tito so at the peak of his powers he beat a guy with good win at that division that was not close to his best.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJones I will give you but not Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYeah and I don't doubt a single word of that.....he just wasn't better than RJJ or Hopkins in their pomp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Calzaghes win over Hopkins is better than anything Hopkins has done, hard to argue with that really;D
I think Hopkins beating Pascal was really impressive though, even Tarver all things considered.
They would shamelessly avoid each other ;D
I'd have to go with Calzaghe on points. He had a great chin and great hand speed and work rate. He'd be the bigger man and could probably hang with GGG's power. Hard to say til we see GGG in with a threat.
You could be right about RJJ but I still fancy Joe to beat him never seen Jones hit so much by any fighter, and I feel Joe carried Jones and he could have Ko him.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYeah and I don't doubt a single word of that.....he just wasn't better than RJJ or Hopkins in their pomp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Well if you look at there best wins with Hopkins you got Taver,Pascal,Tito, and Johnson then you have Calzaghe with Hopkins, Kessler, Reid and Lacy looks to pretty even but Hopkins even at his age better win then those guys. They both have 10 year dominate reigns in there division both have been lineal champs in a few divisions there pretty much the same. The more i look at it the more i side with Calzaghe never lost and he has better wins in his division Kessler was better then anyone hop faced in mw and beating Hopkins at lhw is better then any win Hopkins has at lhw.
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Hopkins and Calzaghe is an extremely difficult fight to score imo, for two guys that good it was a bad fight and basically every single effective punch was landed by Hopkins. I don't know who would have won in their primes, but I don't think you can argue that Hopkins faced the better form throughout his career. Your argument basically boils down to your last point, which is silly to begin with, more so considering there wasn't a clear winner between them.
From all the polls i have seen most had Calzaghe winning it was a close fight and i can not see how Hopkins won a round after first few because he through nothing. Also Kessler is better smw then any guy i can think of that Hopkins beat at mw. Outside of that they dominated weak division for a decade i just gave Calzaghe the edge because he never lost and i think he did enough against hopkins to win and it is a official win for him. There comp outside a few are the same there careers are very similar i really do not care either way but people act like Hops in another league do not see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Hopkins and Calzaghe is an extremely difficult fight to score imo, for two guys that good it was a bad fight and basically every single effective punch was landed by Hopkins. I don't know who would have won in their primes, but I don't think you can argue that Hopkins faced the better form throughout his career. Your argument basically boils down to your last point, which is silly to begin with, more so considering there wasn't a clear winner between them.