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Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
When the NHS was formed in 1948, it was one of the greatest social achievements of any nation in the history of humanity. Setting up a healthcare system, for all citizens, free at the point of delivery was superb. The fact it was set up under an overarching set of Guiding Principles also illustrated the morality and aspiration of the scheme.
Britain in 1948 was a very different place to today. The country was nearly bankrupt following the war, the Empire was dissolving and malnutrition and life threatening sickness were rife. Average life expectancy for men was 66, the greatest issues were pneumonia, meningitis, polio and child mortality. This was the first time in the world that such a system has been set up.
fast forward nearly 70 years and things are very different;
Life expectancy is well over 70 now, and there has been a massive increase in palliative and complex treatments. These are much more expensive and time consuming than 'simply' curing the previous diseases which people suffered from.
our ageing population means we have already passed the mathematical point in time when working people (who pay tax to fund the system) have been outnumbered by non-working or retired people who no longer pay anything in. It is not relevant to say that they have already paid in for their working lifetimes because the system is not a 'bankable' one. In other words, money goes in every year and money goes out every year .... people do not build a fund of monies for treatment
It is a public point of grievance that non U.K. Citizens, foreigners and refugees etc are able to access the system equally despite having never paid anything towards it. Nobody really knows how many of these do so.
This means that it is essentially impossible to adequately budget for the services, nobody really knows how much next year will cost, nor where the pinch points will be in the service.
it is a fact that the Service has moved away from simply treating life threatening illnesses, which is what it was intended to do, towards palliative and lifestyle issues; dementia, Alzheimer's, smoking and alcohol related issues, obesity etc. It was not meant for that. Even today, the NHS is superb at dealing with emergencies, but not so good at non-emergencies.
Worst of all, the NHS has become a political football. The public and media 'love' the NHS, it is 'the best health service in the world', the 'envy of other countries', it is 'precious', everybody who works in the NHS is a 'hard working angel'. The media and politicians always trumpet they will 'save the NHS', or its 'in crisis' at an existential humanitarian level.
having personally worked on the fringes of the service for 20 years, and my wife has worked within it for 25, I can confidently say that therefore as many lazy good for nothing tossers working there as in any other big organisation. The leadership is sorely lacking, and the system is institutionally set up to resist change and innovation. Being run by the government really is a fate worth than death too.
Final salary pensions are pretty extinct now, because of black and white maths and also various government robberies of funds. Longevity and an imbalance in age demographics means they are financially simply unsustainable. Surely the same logic remorselessly applies to the NHS too?
Currently, we have a system that was fit for purpose in 1948. Now it's badly led, it's doing things it wasn't intended to do, it is simply too big and cumbersome to manage properly, it is very inefficient .... but it has become a 'holy grail' in the minds of the media, politicians and the public.
where to go?
Trouble is if you want a NHS service you have to pay.
Our NHS is for British people simple the public sector is saturated with middle management, ! who don't produce anything they have nothing jobs most are in the 30 to 40 thousand pounds a year salary.
The NHS suffers from far to much management not enough front line workers.
Right income tax need to increase for this service simple.
Poor management is a plauge in this Country, we have undervalued our healthcare no investment in providing home trained doctors and nurses , we are reliant on poorly trained so called health care professionals.
How do I no this my wife and daughter work in health care.
My daughter works in palutive care with in the NHS.
Remember you want the NHS you got to pay for its a lot cheaper than what America has to offer, which is over priced ripped off.
We are lucky the yanks are not count your blessings, remember you have a accident over here no fucker goes through your pockets looking for a credit card.!
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Beans when did anybody ever say that he was unknown before he ran or that he was not a super rich person? Nobody has ever claimed that
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Beans when did anybody ever say that he was unknown before he ran or that he was not a super rich person? Nobody has ever claimed that
Everything was rigged against him ?
That sounds mighty victim like and is actually completely untrue. At least you are consistent in ignoring every single salient point though that might undermine your assertions.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Trump is the American equivalent of Royalty except unlike most of those hideous reptiles he hasn't even served his country in the armed services. You love him. In the face.Two times.
.....we don't do royalty
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
You don't go to jail for not paying the penalty.
If whatever the GOP come up with to replace Obamacare contains penalties for not taking out insurance will you still think it's tyranny?
OK, so you have your refund taken. The government keeps the money you overpaid in taxes until they have an amount equal to what you owe and if you choose not to file or pay taxes you will end up in jail.
I do not want healthcare to be a requirement for me to be considered a legal and law abiding citizen, is that so difficult to understand? I will still not like the healthcare plan if it's mandated by the government regardless of who is currently running the government because that changes and will no doubt change many times during my lifetime and should some party that does not like me personally be in charge of the government then they'd have more of my life at their finger tips ready to control....so no I will not like it if the Republicans have penalties in there....is that OK?
If you don't pay taxes in any country you ultimately go to jail. The entire first world must all be tyrannies then.
So if the GOP enact some similar kind of mandate you'll consider that as tyrannical as Obama?
You're already mandated to pay for your social security and for your healthcare after the age of sixty five. You're paying for them right now. What's the difference between paying for future healthcare via taxes and paying for current healthcare?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
So you admit Obamacare is a failure. Thank you
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
So you admit Obamacare is a failure. Thank you
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
Obamacare works as well as the rest of the private system for employed people. Which is, not very well. For the people it covers it's the least worst option as we're about to discover when the GOP attempt a replacement.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
So you admit Obamacare is a failure. Thank you
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
Obamacare works as well as the rest of the private system for employed people. Which is, not very well. For the people it covers it's the least worst option as we're about to discover when the GOP attempt a replacement.
#1. Where did I type that Kirkland?
#2. No Obamacare doesn't work as good as the Private system it is decidedly more expensive both in premiums and deductibles.
At the end of the day the young healthy people will have to subsidize the old and sickly. It's the same with good drivers subsidizing bad drivers when it comes to auto insurance, but there comes a time when an Auto Insurance Company can cut it's losses on an insured....no such thing exists in the health insurance world anymore. People living longer and people having fewer children will only make things worse.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Miles has fucked the system up so badly by having 6 Korean children with his 3rd wife ALONE! Fucking shill is a baby machine. Then he wants to talk overpopulation.
You just can't make this stuff up.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Well, that's the way it is Brock.
I think the quality of health care here is as good as anywhere else, but it does kind of straddle a line between the UK and US model. You pay your national insurance which comes out of your wages and this is very good for cheap prescriptions and some types of surgery, but the more hi-tech surgeries are generally not covered by it as I found out recently. When it comes to health you only want the best and you want a procedure that will not leave you looking like a victim of a great white shark attack and that costs money, but thankfully I do have private insurance so cost does not matter to me. I've had this discussion a few times though with my wife wondering what people who don't have insurance or even the national insurance because of unemployment do. Apparently there are ways of getting your name on another family members national insurance, but really you cannot afford to be without private insurance. It is too risky not to. I find that I claim back a lot more than I put in, so it really it saves me money. I'm always in the hospital for something and I am back there today getting some surgery on my arm. It's the opposite for my wife who never gets sick. It's not expensive to cover yourself privately here though.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
What the ~fuck~ have you "gone" and done NOW, Miles??! Surgery on your arm? What happened? is this a sudden development or are you having a persistent situation remedied?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
It's an old thing I mentioned in the past, but it has been operated on at last. Nothing serious. I actually quite enjoyed this surgery as it was very simple. Even with national insurance it's another 135 pounds to pay. Then there was the 100 pounds for the previous weeks ultrasound. Then the original 14 pounds to see the doctor. It all adds up and this is just a very minor procedure. If you only have national insurance that's still a weeks wages for some. I am not grumbling though as I am very pleased with the quality of medical care out here. I've seen emergency rooms, had major surgery, minor surgery, seen it all; and saw first hand the excellent work people are doing. Walrus grumbles about the treatment of women, but nurses at the top hospitals earn really excellent money and they deserve it.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
It's an old thing I mentioned in the past, but it has been operated on at last. Nothing serious. I actually quite enjoyed this surgery as it was very simple. Even with national insurance it's another 135 pounds to pay. Then there was the 100 pounds for the previous weeks ultrasound. Then the original 14 pounds to see the doctor. It all adds up and this is just a very minor procedure. If you only have national insurance that's still a weeks wages for some. I am not grumbling though as I am very pleased with the quality of medical care out here. I've seen emergency rooms, had major surgery, minor surgery, seen it all; and saw first hand the excellent work people are doing. Walrus grumbles about the treatment of women, but nurses at the top hospitals earn really excellent money and they deserve it.
#savesouthkoreanwomen
#iamsouthkoreanwomen
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Walrus has been a bit of a martini-drinking dipshit lately, but it doesnt stop him from talking up a storm on beef jerky and shit like that, "oh how dare you" and all that British "My word" shit.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
I've just spent nearly two months in hospital so have current first-hand experience of the good and bad. I waited 14 hours to get a bed on a ward, but in my experience, considering the daily pressure nurses/staff are under, the actual care was excellent - the majority are competent at their job (which I guess should be the expected average), with every Nurse Ratched there were half-a-dozen angels.
Can't believe how many people live in their own filth (before being forced to clean), shit and piss themselves and refuse to speak english (the last point is not linked to the others). And the amount that have the cheek to demand a special/particular menu. And get physical/abusive with the nurses (always female nurses). And should be in a mental home. And are fucking time wasters (some poor souls definitely/obviously enjoyed living in the hospital more than outside).
A shout out to the young Filipino nurses - several on my ward - who were the most excellent/dedicated/caring/upbeat lovely people i've ever came across. An eye opener for anyone that believes all immigration is a wrongun.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I've just spent nearly two months in hospital so have current first-hand experience of the good and bad. I waited 14 hours to get a bed on a ward, but in my experience, considering the daily pressure nurses/staff are under, the actual care was excellent - the majority are competent at their job (which I guess should be the expected average), with every Nurse Ratched there were half-a-dozen angels.
Can't believe how many people live in their own filth (before being forced to clean), shit and piss themselves and refuse to speak english (the last point is not linked to the others). And the amount that have the cheek to demand a special/particular menu. And get physical/abusive with the nurses (always female nurses). And should be in a mental home. And are fucking time wasters (some poor souls definitely/obviously enjoyed living in the hospital more than outside).
A shout out to the young Filipino nurses - several on my ward - who were the most excellent/dedicated/caring/upbeat lovely people i've ever came across. An eye opener for anyone that believes all immigration is a wrongun.
I hate that you have been ill Fenster, many well wishes to you and for your speedy recovery.
The problem with a social safety net of any kind is IMMIGRATION especially ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. You have people who do not and have not paid into the system, they have no skin in the game but demand the same rights. Of course under the Hippocratic oath it is the duty of any and all doctors and nurses to provide care for their fellow human beings regardless of their ability to be paid for such services. This then becomes a moral quandary much like "If you need medicine and the medicine is more than you can afford is it immoral for you to steal the medicine if that is the only means by which you can survive"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I've just spent nearly two months in hospital so have current first-hand experience of the good and bad. I waited 14 hours to get a bed on a ward, but in my experience, considering the daily pressure nurses/staff are under, the actual care was excellent - the majority are competent at their job (which I guess should be the expected average), with every Nurse Ratched there were half-a-dozen angels.
Can't believe how many people live in their own filth (before being forced to clean), shit and piss themselves and refuse to speak english (the last point is not linked to the others). And the amount that have the cheek to demand a special/particular menu. And get physical/abusive with the nurses (always female nurses). And should be in a mental home. And are fucking time wasters (some poor souls definitely/obviously enjoyed living in the hospital more than outside).
A shout out to the young Filipino nurses - several on my ward - who were the most excellent/dedicated/caring/upbeat lovely people i've ever came across. An eye opener for anyone that believes all immigration is a wrongun.
Hell that's were you been hope your on the road to recovery.
I hope you were a good patient any how glad your back Rich.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I've just spent nearly two months in hospital so have current first-hand experience of the good and bad. I waited 14 hours to get a bed on a ward, but in my experience, considering the daily pressure nurses/staff are under, the actual care was excellent - the majority are competent at their job (which I guess should be the expected average), with every Nurse Ratched there were half-a-dozen angels.
Can't believe how many people live in their own filth (before being forced to clean), shit and piss themselves and refuse to speak english (the last point is not linked to the others). And the amount that have the cheek to demand a special/particular menu. And get physical/abusive with the nurses (always female nurses). And should be in a mental home. And are fucking time wasters (some poor souls definitely/obviously enjoyed living in the hospital more than outside).
A shout out to the young Filipino nurses - several on my ward - who were the most excellent/dedicated/caring/upbeat lovely people i've ever came across. An eye opener for anyone that believes all immigration is a wrongun.
Great to see you back mate. Don't want to rush you or anything you recovering and all that, but I am still awaiting my poster. :p
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I've just spent nearly two months in hospital so have current first-hand experience of the good and bad. I waited 14 hours to get a bed on a ward, but in my experience, considering the daily pressure nurses/staff are under, the actual care was excellent - the majority are competent at their job (which I guess should be the expected average), with every Nurse Ratched there were half-a-dozen angels.
Can't believe how many people live in their own filth (before being forced to clean), shit and piss themselves and refuse to speak english (the last point is not linked to the others). And the amount that have the cheek to demand a special/particular menu. And get physical/abusive with the nurses (always female nurses). And should be in a mental home. And are fucking time wasters (some poor souls definitely/obviously enjoyed living in the hospital more than outside).
A shout out to the young Filipino nurses - several on my ward - who were the most excellent/dedicated/caring/upbeat lovely people i've ever came across. An eye opener for anyone that believes all immigration is a wrongun.
@Fenster first off good to hear you are out and recovering. You are absolutely right here in New York City Filipino nurses are known to be the best of the best everybody wants to get a Filipino nurse they are fast and smart and highly educated and they work overtime and never get tired glad to hear they are also spreading their great reputation over in your country too
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I've just spent nearly two months in hospital so have current first-hand experience of the good and bad. I waited 14 hours to get a bed on a ward, but in my experience, considering the daily pressure nurses/staff are under, the actual care was excellent - the majority are competent at their job (which I guess should be the expected average), with every Nurse Ratched there were half-a-dozen angels.
Can't believe how many people live in their own filth (before being forced to clean), shit and piss themselves and refuse to speak english (the last point is not linked to the others). And the amount that have the cheek to demand a special/particular menu. And get physical/abusive with the nurses (always female nurses). And should be in a mental home. And are fucking time wasters (some poor souls definitely/obviously enjoyed living in the hospital more than outside).
A shout out to the young Filipino nurses - several on my ward - who were the most excellent/dedicated/caring/upbeat lovely people i've ever came across. An eye opener for anyone that believes all immigration is a wrongun.
Hope everything is OK mate.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
So you admit Obamacare is a failure. Thank you
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
Obamacare works as well as the rest of the private system for employed people. Which is, not very well. For the people it covers it's the least worst option as we're about to discover when the GOP attempt a replacement.
#1. Where did I type that Kirkland?
#2. No Obamacare doesn't work as good as the Private system it is decidedly more expensive both in premiums and deductibles.
At the end of the day the young healthy people will have to subsidize the old and sickly. It's the same with good drivers subsidizing bad drivers when it comes to auto insurance, but there comes a time when an Auto Insurance Company can cut it's losses on an insured....no such thing exists in the health insurance world anymore. People living longer and people having fewer children will only make things worse.
But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system. Much lower running costs, much more efficient operation and so on. That's just fact.
And yes, the young subsidise the old in every healthcare system. That's why privatising medicare, turning it into a "premium support" system where comprehensive coverage is scrapped and oldies have to buy a private insurance policy, can never work.
If you think it's difficult to get a decent value policy when you're 35 try it when you're 75.
Here's what Trump has to say about his health insurance plans.
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump told the Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”
He added that under his plan, people "can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) has said lawmakers planned to take a bottom-up approach to replacing Obamacare in piece-meal fashion through the committee process, but according to the Post, Trump said his plan was nearly ready and that he was confident it would pass Congress.
“I think we will get approval. I won’t tell you how, but we will get approval. You see what’s happened in the House in recent weeks,” Trump said, pointing to the kerfuffle when House leaders had to withdraw plans to gut Office of Congressional Ethics after Trump tweeted against the idea.
Even the few details Trump provided about his plan -- “lower numbers, much lower deductibles,” according to the Post -- cut against many of the GOP proposals that have been put forward over the years that have offered skimpier plans with higher out-of-pocket costs.
“It’s not going to be their plan,” Trump told the Post, referring to the people covered under the current law. “It’ll be another plan. But they’ll be beautifully covered. I don’t want single-payer. What I do want is to be able to take care of people."
He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.
If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
The thing I don't understand is how conservatives in America are so opposed to a single payer health care system. Americans pay twice as much as even the second most expensive country, are the most addicted to pills, have a decreasing life expectancy and yet anything else is deemed Communist or inferior. It makes no sense to me how making huge profits for private insurance companies is deemed the way to go. To me, you cannot on the one hand say that government is tyranny, but on the other hand argue that tyranny by corporations is any better.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
So you admit Obamacare is a failure. Thank you
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
Obamacare works as well as the rest of the private system for employed people. Which is, not very well. For the people it covers it's the least worst option as we're about to discover when the GOP attempt a replacement.
#1. Where did I type that Kirkland?
#2. No Obamacare doesn't work as good as the Private system it is decidedly more expensive both in premiums and deductibles.
At the end of the day the young healthy people will have to subsidize the old and sickly. It's the same with good drivers subsidizing bad drivers when it comes to auto insurance, but there comes a time when an Auto Insurance Company can cut it's losses on an insured....no such thing exists in the health insurance world anymore. People living longer and people having fewer children will only make things worse.
But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system. Much lower running costs, much more efficient operation and so on. That's just fact.
And yes, the young subsidise the old in every healthcare system. That's why privatising medicare, turning it into a "premium support" system where comprehensive coverage is scrapped and oldies have to buy a private insurance policy, can never work.
If you think it's difficult to get a decent value policy when you're 35 try it when you're 75.
Here's what Trump has to say about his health insurance plans.
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump told the Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”
He added that under his plan, people "can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) has said lawmakers planned to take a bottom-up approach to replacing Obamacare in piece-meal fashion through the committee process, but according to the Post, Trump said his plan was nearly ready and that he was confident it would pass Congress.
“I think we will get approval. I won’t tell you how, but we will get approval. You see what’s happened in the House in recent weeks,” Trump said, pointing to the kerfuffle when House leaders had to withdraw plans to gut Office of Congressional Ethics after Trump tweeted against the idea.
Even the few details Trump provided about his plan -- “lower numbers, much lower deductibles,” according to the Post -- cut against many of the GOP proposals that have been put forward over the years that have offered skimpier plans with higher out-of-pocket costs.
“It’s not going to be their plan,” Trump told the Post, referring to the people covered under the current law. “It’ll be another plan. But they’ll be beautifully covered. I don’t want single-payer. What I do want is to be able to take care of people."
He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.
If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?
*crickets*
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
I responded with "Where did I type that?" to which you replied
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.
That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
*crickets*
Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
I responded with
"Where did I type that?" to which you replied
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.
That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
*crickets*
Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed
I didn't originally admit Obamacare was a failure. And because I didn't directly state that it was you then said "so you admit it's a failure then". I just turned your third grade rhetorical device back on you with the Medicare question.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
I responded with
"Where did I type that?" to which you replied
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.
That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
*crickets*
Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed
I didn't originally admit Obamacare was a failure. And because I didn't directly state that it was you then said "so you admit it's a failure then". I just turned your third grade rhetorical device back on you with the Medicare question.
You said of Medicare and I quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
Meaning every other part of our healthcare system does not work......Obamacare would fall under "every other part of our healthcare system" because Obamacare is our current healthcare system AND Obamacare=/= Medicare.
Your turn cunt flaps
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
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Originally Posted by
El Kabong
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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.
I responded with
"Where did I type that?" to which you replied
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.
That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
*crickets*
Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed
I didn't originally admit Obamacare was a failure. And because I didn't directly state that it was you then said "so you admit it's a failure then". I just turned your third grade rhetorical device back on you with the Medicare question.
You said of Medicare and I quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.
Meaning every other part of our healthcare system does not work......Obamacare would fall under "every other part of our healthcare system" because Obamacare is our current healthcare system AND Obamacare=/= Medicare.
Your turn cunt flaps
The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.
Alright so then your original statement was false then...is that what you want to go with?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.
Alright so then your original statement was false then...is that what you want to go with?
No. The Medicare part of your system works very well. The rest of the system works really badly. It's not a failure -- a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year! -- but it's a shit system. It won't ever fail, it can continue indefinitely just being a shit system. It should all be scrapped and a medicare for all system should be set up.
Now, can you answer the questions you've been dodging.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.
Alright so then your original statement was false then...is that what you want to go with?
No. The Medicare part of your system works very well. The rest of the system works really badly. It's not a failure -- a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year! -- but it's a shit system. It won't ever fail, it can continue indefinitely just being a shit system. It should all be scrapped and a medicare for all system should be set up.
Now, can you answer the questions you've been dodging.
:vd: People are penalized if they don't sign up so this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year!
isn't something to BE SUPER EXCITED ABOUT!!!
Medicare has worked alright BUT as with all entitlement programs when you have unfettered illegal and even legal immigration there will be a limiting of funds for future patients because those folks either haven't paid into the system for as long as they theoretically could have or they just don't pay into the system at all. Also as the population of the United States increases with age entitlements like Social Security and Medicare will feel the crunch of fewer people paying into a system that more people are making use of....that has always been the problem and will always be the problem with this kind of system.
What can be done to avoid this? Increasing the age of eligibility, increasing taxes, privatizing the system, abolishing the system and starting from scratch, younger generations have a baby boom and put them kids to work.
Obamacare was never meant to be the end game, Single Payer is the end game to which the Republicans/Conservatives/Libertarians would add on the option to upgrade your Insurance through the private sector...I think that will eventually come to pass and whether or not it will be any good is a mystery to me as anything can and will happen
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
I don't think we were talking about Obamacare, or medicaid or anything like that, or the pros and cons of it's funding in a normal balanced way.
oh, wait a minute ;D
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Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
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Originally Posted by
Beanz
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Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Nonplussed come.on, B. I'm never nonplussed plus you suck at math. NHS is piss because patients have to 'self diagnose' and then go to the doctor for unknown conditions. NHS is only good for known conditions. Nonplus, NHS has been very selective about who gets the "best treatment". If you went private you'd certainly get less cancellations as well. Doctors have zero training on new, rare diseases.
This is all complete bollocks. Typical arrogance from someone who despite having never used the service pretends that they are some kind of authority. You don't have to self diagnose at all, what do you think examinations, scans etc are for? Idiot.The whole point of the NHS is that it is not selective about who gets the best treatment. The idea that doctors have zero training on new rare diseases Is also just complete fabrication from you. You just make stuff up. Why? Seriously what does it matter to you that the NHS is so loved in a country you look down your nose at?
You are 2 pork pies short of a picnic mate. I have direct experience with your NHS. Have you no empathy for the vast numbers of elderly, vulnerable people left on trolleys for hours and hours? Are you that heartless, you nasty little.man? Is the utter lack of diagnosis and the piss-poor lack of treatment and even drugs OK with you? Try and question some of your stubborn and long-held beliefs. Mate the NHS is sinking. You can't even reform it. Take a look at what France, Germany or Holland does. What a beautiful mix of public and private! Your Chancellor is writing checks to this communist-style monstrosity.
So you 'direct experience ' turns out to be, no experience whatsoever and merely being in the UK for three days, once in your life.:-) It seems the Trump habit of just making stuff up and then saying "oh you shouldn't take him literally" is catching.Is it the same with the 350 million pound a week the NHS was promised if we left the expensive EU now turning into actual cuts in expenditure?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.
If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.
If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.
Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
While in Wimbledon in 1991, at a pub with my German and American friends, the American fell while exiting and twisted badly his ankle requiring medical assistance. He was treated for free, not a penny asked, at the emergency room within 2 hours. Totally free. Though I stayed back at the pub by myself, the German drove the Yank to the hospital.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
While in Wimbledon in 1991, at a pub with my German and American friends, the American fell while exiting and twisted badly his ankle requiring medical assistance. He was treated for free, not a penny asked, at the emergency room within 2 hours. Totally free. Though I stayed back at the pub by myself, the German drove the Yank to the hospital.
How convenient for you, the question remains then, how did you evaluate the NHS as being "Piss" after such a positive experience?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
While in Wimbledon in 1991, at a pub with my German and American friends, the American fell while exiting and twisted badly his ankle requiring medical assistance. He was treated for free, not a penny asked, at the emergency room within 2 hours. Totally free. Though I stayed back at the pub by myself, the German drove the Yank to the hospital.
How convenient for you, the question remains then, how did you evaluate the NHS as being "Piss" after such a positive experience?
Beanz PISS NOW--- in '91 it was good, PISS NOW 2017
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.
If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.
Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.
You shouldn't be allowed to use it unless you have a national insurance number or a valid working visa. That would soon cut out people going there as medical tourists. Otherwise, visitors should have private travel insurance and pay upfront. Do people really just go to the UK and get expensive treatments as tourists? Mindboggling.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.
Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.
You shouldn't be allowed to use it unless you have a national insurance number or a valid working visa. That would soon cut out people going there as medical tourists. Otherwise, visitors should have private travel insurance and pay upfront. Do people really just go to the UK and get expensive treatments as tourists? Mindboggling.
It's not quite that simple. As an EU citizen you would have the right to similar free treatment on other EU countries. It is obviously a problem but as usual it's nowhere near as binary as most want it to be. Oversimplification seems to have become the new starting point for debate.
