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If you think p4p then Leonard would have beaten both.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
thought we were talking lb4lb?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterRoy might have beat him as he's naturally bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Floyd? No way. He was at his best below welter.
Prime Oscar and Mosley would have beat Floyd at welter too let alone Ray.
We are talking pound for poundQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Obviously, a former heavyweight champion
Would destroy a former super featherweight champion.
It would have been a great fight and it’s a shame it never happenedQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Nobody really called for Jones to move back down to 175
I think we all wanted to see him fight the heavyweights.
He probably would have beat both Tyson and Holyfield
But unfortunately, didn’t push for those fights.
Byrd was underrated and probably would have beaten Jones
Especially when you consider Tarver (a southpaw) ended up beating him.
I can’t see Benn beating Jones. He would’ve had a punchers chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
But Benn didn’t have the best chin and Jones could hit too.
Benn was too easy to hit and the speed would’ve ruined him
I like Benn, he’s fun to watch but he wasn’t an elite fighter IMO.
no he wouldn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterIf you think p4p then Leonard would have beaten both.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44thought we were talking lb4lb?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterRoy might have beat him as he's naturally bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Floyd? No way. He was at his best below welter.
Prime Oscar and Mosley would have beat Floyd at welter too let alone Ray.
jones would never have lost to anyone 2 weights below him
The funk you waffling bout Eric?
Leonard and Roy both fought at middleweight.
Leonard and Floyd both fought at welter.
Therefore, Leonard could have met both of them.
Leonard lost to a lightweight, a pomp Roy would never lose to a fighter 2 weights below himQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Leonard would lose to Floyd at welterweight
Leonard would lose to Roy at middleweight
:)
Leonard lost to a great former lightweight and avenged that loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Leonard lost to a lightweight, a pomp Roy would never lose to a fighter 2 weights below himQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Leonard would lose to Floyd at welterweight
Leonard would lose to Roy at middleweight
:)
SRL - 10
RJJ - 4
Floyd - 2
The majority of the forum knows its boxing. :)
It's been a while since I have seen these fightsQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterI've seen a few Ottke "robberies" that weren't robberies, they were close/debatable decisions that he had every right to win. People claim "robbery" about disputed decisions week in week out, especially when they haven't seen the fights they're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoFair point but like I said, Germany was corrupt back thenQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterRoy never left home either (forget the excuses, I know them all, just stating a fact). The only reason he had the IBF/WBA titles at LH was because Michalczewski was stripped after beating Hill. The Ring changed their rules to gift/promote Roy.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
So unless you believe Americans should get special dispensation for being American Roy should have travelled to challenge the true champ - Michalczewski.
Extremely bad judging and unprofessional refereeing
Meant that Jones would have to have scored a knockout to win.
Just look at Sven Ottke's unbeaten title reign as an example
Foreign fighters in America claim it's corrupt/inept when they lose too.
So maybe you're correct but I seem to remember
Robin Reid knocking him down and it getting ruled a slip
Then Reid losing two or three points for nothing
Didn't he actually get warned at one stage for punching?
Like I said it's been a while so I could be wrong
I actually remember Reid beating both Ottke and Calzaghe.
The ref was pathetic/inept/biased but Reid wasn't robbed on the cards, it was a close fight that he threw away down the stretch when he got tired/ran out of ideas (imo).Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I don't think he was robbed against Calzaghe either, he also claims he was "robbed" against Lacy. Why? Because the Americans (team Lacy) treated him so badly. They didn't provide adequate accommodation/food/transport/training conditions so he was handicapped on the night. If the fight was in England he would have won (so he says).
That's my point about fighters/fans crying robbery. Doesn't matter who it is or where they come from there's always someone claiming unfair treatment/corruption. Americans say Britian is corrupt, Britain says Germany, Germany says America and so on and on.
Leonard was the best in my eyes and manged to be fighting in a era with a lot of legends who he manged to come out on top against. His comeback out of retirement to beat the mw goat is pretty much unheard of.
Reid wasn't robbed on the cards because of the refereeQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe ref was pathetic/inept/biased but Reid wasn't robbed on the cards, it was a close fight that he threw away down the stretch when he got tired/ran out of ideas (imo).Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I don't think he was robbed against Calzaghe either, he also claims he was "robbed" against Lacy. Why? Because the Americans (team Lacy) treated him so badly. They didn't provide adequate accommodation/food/transport/training conditions so he was handicapped on the night. If the fight was in England he would have won (so he says).
That's my point about fighters/fans crying robbery. Doesn't matter who it is or where they come from there's always someone claiming unfair treatment/corruption. Americans say Britian is corrupt, Britain says Germany, Germany says America and so on and on.
If he had of properly ruled the knockdown and not taken points
Then I imagine the cards would've been in Reid's favour.
The Abraham-Miranda fight was another example
Of bad judging and even worse refereeing in Germany.
The Calzaghe fight was close but Reid landed the better shots
All the clean, hard effective punches came from him.
I thought he did enough to win a close decision
But it was close. He obviously wasn't robbed against Lacy
He got floored multiple times, fouled and complained all night.
Still say if you want true dedicated corrupt ref Argentina takes the cake. Only takes one unchecked man on an ego trip to dictate the big picture flow of a fight.
People always talk like sven ottke never actually won a fight but he was actually a monsterous power puncher
high quality video alert
https://youtu.be/r97Qq8s119s?t=188
see he actually ko'd someone ! and anthony the man mundine too...he's called the man he must be good... also kessler couldnt ko the man so ottke > kessler :S
Yes it's all about opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoReid wasn't robbed on the cards because of the refereeQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe ref was pathetic/inept/biased but Reid wasn't robbed on the cards, it was a close fight that he threw away down the stretch when he got tired/ran out of ideas (imo).Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I don't think he was robbed against Calzaghe either, he also claims he was "robbed" against Lacy. Why? Because the Americans (team Lacy) treated him so badly. They didn't provide adequate accommodation/food/transport/training conditions so he was handicapped on the night. If the fight was in England he would have won (so he says).
That's my point about fighters/fans crying robbery. Doesn't matter who it is or where they come from there's always someone claiming unfair treatment/corruption. Americans say Britian is corrupt, Britain says Germany, Germany says America and so on and on.
If he had of properly ruled the knockdown and not taken points
Then I imagine the cards would've been in Reid's favour.
The Abraham-Miranda fight was another example
Of bad judging and even worse refereeing in Germany.
The Calzaghe fight was close but Reid landed the better shots
All the clean, hard effective punches came from him.
I thought he did enough to win a close decision
But it was close. He obviously wasn't robbed against Lacy
He got floored multiple times, fouled and complained all night.
Who won? Depends on who you ask. Worst country for dodgy decisions? Depends on who you ask.
Lawrence Cole (P4P no.1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZLNFBFu57w
still lost to a lightweightQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterLeonard lost to a great former lightweight and avenged that loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Leonard lost to a lightweight, a pomp Roy would never lose to a fighter 2 weights below himQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Leonard would lose to Floyd at welterweight
Leonard would lose to Roy at middleweight
:)
who lost to every other half decent fighter he fought above lightweight
that alone puts Leonard last on this list
Duran was one of, if the not the best lightweight in history, just because he lost does not mean they are not better than Floyd. Zero on a record does not mean you are the best, otherwise Sven Ottke would be one of the greatest champions of all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44still lost to a lightweightQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterLeonard lost to a great former lightweight and avenged that loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Leonard lost to a lightweight, a pomp Roy would never lose to a fighter 2 weights below himQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Leonard would lose to Floyd at welterweight
Leonard would lose to Roy at middleweight
:)
who lost to every other half decent fighter he fought about lightweight
that alone puts Leonard last on this list
Duran was an exceptional lightweight
but lets be honest he won little above lightweight, leonard was his best win by a million miles
To show how great Duran was past his best weight he beat undefeated Leonard (welterweight title), Moore (super welterweight title), took Hagler to points and beat Barkley for middleweight title being under 40. Amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
yeah he did well, still would never have beaten Floyd or JonesQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterTo show how great Duran was past his best weight he beat undefeated Leonard (welterweight title), Moore (super welterweight title), took Hagler to points and beat Barkley for middleweight title being under 40. Amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
and he beat Leonard
Ok, would Duran have beaten Floyd at lightweight in your opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44yeah he did well, still would never have beaten Floyd or JonesQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterTo show how great Duran was past his best weight he beat undefeated Leonard (welterweight title), Moore (super welterweight title), took Hagler to points and beat Barkley for middleweight title being under 40. Amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
and he beat Leonard
Leonard also beat him in the return.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44yeah he did well, still would never have beaten Floyd or JonesQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterTo show how great Duran was past his best weight he beat undefeated Leonard (welterweight title), Moore (super welterweight title), took Hagler to points and beat Barkley for middleweight title being under 40. Amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
and he beat Leonard
I haven't seen much of him to really give a gradeQuote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
But the few fights I have seen he looked very average
I don't really rate Kessler all that highly to be honest
He lost every big fight he had (he got a gift against Froch)
Sven Ottke was poor and Kessler would have beaten him. Kessler beat Froch in a close and classic fight the first time, it was not a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoI haven't seen much of him to really give a gradeQuote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
But the few fights I have seen he looked very average
I don't really rate Kessler all that highly to be honest
He lost every big fight he had (he got a gift against Froch)
I didn't even think it was close in the first fight, I thought Kessler won quite convincingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSven Ottke was poor and Kessler would have beaten him. Kessler beat Froch in a close and classic fight the first time, it was not a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoI haven't seen much of him to really give a gradeQuote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
But the few fights I have seen he looked very average
I don't really rate Kessler all that highly to be honest
He lost every big fight he had (he got a gift against Froch)
He also gave Calzaghe and Ward their toughest fights at SMW. Ok , he's no ATG, but that's not a bad CV.
froch won the first fight against Kessler just as clearly as did the secondQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterSven Ottke was poor and Kessler would have beaten him. Kessler beat Froch in a close and classic fight the first time, it was not a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoI haven't seen much of him to really give a gradeQuote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
But the few fights I have seen he looked very average
I don't really rate Kessler all that highly to be honest
He lost every big fight he had (he got a gift against Froch)
I think it could be described as a gift
Both fights were competitive and no one got a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44froch won the first fight against Kessler just as clearly as did the secondQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterSven Ottke was poor and Kessler would have beaten him. Kessler beat Froch in a close and classic fight the first time, it was not a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoI haven't seen much of him to really give a gradeQuote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
But the few fights I have seen he looked very average
I don't really rate Kessler all that highly to be honest
He lost every big fight he had (he got a gift against Froch)
I think it could be described as a gift
I think if that fight happens anywhere other than Denmark
Froch gets it on the cards but I don't care as I'm not a Froch fan
End of the day Ward dominated them both so they were fighting for second place.