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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GaMo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
GGG just beat one guy who hid from the best at 154.
He didn’t beat Canelo (It was a draw) and Alvarez did beat the best at 154. He unified the WBC and WBA titles which awarded him The Ring title at light-middleweight (he also won the WBO on a later date) he beat Cintron, Mosley, Lara, Trout, Angulo and Kirkland at 154 so that statement you made is pure fiction.
Yeah a """draw"""......Adelaide Byrd's card was so bad she's taking a hiatus from being a judge GGG won the fight in the ring, he got jobbed by a corrupt or inept (take your pick) judge and that's a travesty.
Yeah and the guy who scored it a draw is still free to work because he got the correct score... it was a draw
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Right, let's get to the point. What fights are acceptable for GGG?
For me only Jacobs or BJS. Only if they're willing to fight him . (Jacobs would, BJS I'm not so sure no matter what he fucking says!) or Charlo or a step up to SMW.
What fights are acceptable for Canelo?
A rematch , or a fight with Jacobs or BJS or Charlo.
I can't think of anything else that is
acceptable..
I don't believe Cotto is acceptable for either.
We will only too soon know who is up for it or who is a pussy!
I would say Canelo has more options because he is not thought to be the best. But if he isn't fighting until May then it's GGG or nothing. Don't get me wrong I would be cool with Canelo fighting BJS, Lemieux, Jacobs, Charlo, of course GGG, Andrade, Lara, other Charlo or even a few others for example Degale, Ramirez, Dirrell, Dirrell, Benavidez or Derevyanchenko, N'Dam or even Jarrett Hurd if he was going to fight soon. But he won't fight soon and his fight will surely be PPV so it has to be GGG
It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160 so he needs to fight Jacobs. To do something towards proving who's best at 160. If he refuses still to fight Jacobs he has Derevyanchenko and Charlo waiting at mandatory spots. No time to waste picking on little Miguel. At worst he needs to fight BJS
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
GGG is the champ and he has belts to defend. I don't personally care if he waits especially if he's only going to fight a bum in December to pad his already over padded record some more.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not a double standard. It's a different situation. GGG is considered the best at 160 so he has the responsibility of proving he is the best at 160. He just took his payday prove nothing fight. Now he needs a show me fight. Same as he went Brook-payday, Jacobs-show me. He can't take 3 paydays in a row with Canelo/Cotto(pathetic to even say his name)/Canelo. If he is the best sometime he has to prove it against middleweights.
Canelo isn't considered the best so he doesn't have the responsibility to prove he is best. More power to him if he decides to try to prove he is the best but I don't think anyone expects that.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not a double standard. It's a different situation. GGG is considered the best at 160 so he has the responsibility of proving he is the best at 160. He just took his payday prove nothing fight. Now he needs a show me fight. Same as he went Brook-payday, Jacobs-show me. He can't take 3 paydays in a row with Canelo/Cotto(pathetic to even say his name)/Canelo. If he is the best sometime he has to prove it against middleweights.
Canelo isn't considered the best so he doesn't have the responsibility to prove he is best. More power to him if he decides to try to prove he is the best but I don't think anyone expects that.
So Canelo will get a pass for waiting until May but GGG won't? It was a competitive fight. Also scored a 'draw'. The sanctioning bodies will probably order mandatories so I'm not sure GGG will be able to wait for Canelo and keep all the belts. IF GGG is looking to fight in December for me the opponent needs to be either BJS, Charlo or Derevyanchenko.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
And win the lineal title.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
And win the lineal title.
I don't give two squirts about fake things like that. Cotto didn't beat the real Sergio, so Canelo didn't beat the real MW champ. Plus we all knew GGG was the real MW champ. Sergio knew that, or he would hace fought GGG, Cotto knew that or he would have fought GGG. Canelo tried to wait GGG out, he just couldn't.
GGG can have 40 MW defenses and it will mean less than having 5 really good defenses. In the end it's about who you fight. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard. He only had 13 championship fights total. But he is a legend and always will be because in those 13 there are like 7 fights against HOF guys.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not a double standard. It's a different situation. GGG is considered the best at 160 so he has the responsibility of proving he is the best at 160. He just took his payday prove nothing fight. Now he needs a show me fight. Same as he went Brook-payday, Jacobs-show me. He can't take 3 paydays in a row with Canelo/Cotto(pathetic to even say his name)/Canelo. If he is the best sometime he has to prove it against middleweights.
Canelo isn't considered the best so he doesn't have the responsibility to prove he is best. More power to him if he decides to try to prove he is the best but I don't think anyone expects that.
So Canelo will get a pass for waiting until May but GGG won't? It was a competitive fight. Also scored a 'draw'. The sanctioning bodies will probably order mandatories so I'm not sure GGG will be able to wait for Canelo and keep all the belts. IF GGG is looking to fight in December for me the opponent needs to be either BJS, Charlo or Derevyanchenko.
I'm not the one deciding GGG wants to fight in december. GGG is. The 3 guys you listed are 3 of the 4 I listed for GGG. I just place more emphasis on ability so I add Jacobs and would have BJS last. I don't think BJS is that good based on his recent showings. He didn't seem to handle success well, and seeing how his friend handled success I'm not optimistic he turns it around.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
And win the lineal title.
I don't give two squirts about fake things like that. Cotto didn't beat the real Sergio, so Canelo didn't beat the real MW champ. Plus
we all knew GGG was the real MW champ. Sergio knew that, or he would hace fought GGG, Cotto knew that or he would have fought GGG. Canelo tried to wait GGG out, he just couldn't.
GGG can have 40 MW defenses and it will mean less than having 5 really good defenses. In the end it's about who you fight. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard. He only had 13 championship fights total. But he is a legend and always will be because in those 13 there are like 7 fights against HOF guys.
Speaking for others? You might not recognize the lineage but I did. So Martinez wasn't the lineal champion? I think he was, he entered under the middleweight limit and lost. The lineage continues in my eyes. Not trying to convert you but that's my thinking. The champion is not always the best fighter in the division. Best vs champ can be 2 different things. Take Spinks/ Tyson for example.
Not sure where you're going with the last part because I agree that you should be regarded by the opposition you fought.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not a double standard. It's a different situation. GGG is considered the best at 160 so he has the responsibility of proving he is the best at 160. He just took his payday prove nothing fight. Now he needs a show me fight. Same as he went Brook-payday, Jacobs-show me. He can't take 3 paydays in a row with Canelo/Cotto(pathetic to even say his name)/Canelo. If he is the best sometime he has to prove it against middleweights.
Canelo isn't considered the best so he doesn't have the responsibility to prove he is best. More power to him if he decides to try to prove he is the best but I don't think anyone expects that.
So Canelo will get a pass for waiting until May but GGG won't? It was a competitive fight. Also scored a 'draw'. The sanctioning bodies will probably order mandatories so I'm not sure GGG will be able to wait for Canelo and keep all the belts. IF GGG is looking to fight in December for me the opponent needs to be either BJS, Charlo or Derevyanchenko.
I'm not the one deciding GGG wants to fight in december. GGG is. The 3 guys you listed are 3 of the 4 I listed for GGG. I just place more emphasis on ability so I add Jacobs and would have BJS last. I don't think BJS is that good based on his recent showings. He didn't seem to handle success well, and seeing how his friend handled success I'm not optimistic he turns it around.
We're basically on the same page. I'm just saying with the sanctioning bodies involved a BJS unification could take precedence over a mandatory. Failing that a mandatory would probably be ordered over Jacobs (unfortunately because Jacobs deserves a rematch). That would be Charlo or Derevyanchenko. GGG may then need to obligate the Murata/ N'Jikam mandatory. Getting and keeping all the belts seems an impossibility. Becoming a star is within grasps. Canelo is still the A side and will be the obvious target.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not a double standard. It's a different situation. GGG is considered the best at 160 so he has the responsibility of proving he is the best at 160. He just took his payday prove nothing fight. Now he needs a show me fight. Same as he went Brook-payday, Jacobs-show me. He can't take 3 paydays in a row with Canelo/Cotto(pathetic to even say his name)/Canelo. If he is the best sometime he has to prove it against middleweights.
Canelo isn't considered the best so he doesn't have the responsibility to prove he is best. More power to him if he decides to try to prove he is the best but I don't think anyone expects that.
So Canelo will get a pass for waiting until May but GGG won't? It was a competitive fight. Also scored a 'draw'. The sanctioning bodies will probably order mandatories so I'm not sure GGG will be able to wait for Canelo and keep all the belts. IF GGG is looking to fight in December for me the opponent needs to be either BJS, Charlo or Derevyanchenko.
I'm not the one deciding GGG wants to fight in december. GGG is. The 3 guys you listed are 3 of the 4 I listed for GGG. I just place more emphasis on ability so I add Jacobs and would have BJS last. I don't think BJS is that good based on his recent showings. He didn't seem to handle success well, and seeing how his friend handled success I'm not optimistic he turns it around.
We're basically on the same page. I'm just saying with the sanctioning bodies involved a BJS unification could take precedence over a mandatory. Failing that a mandatory would probably be ordered over Jacobs (unfortunately because Jacobs deserves a rematch). That would be Charlo or Derevyanchenko. GGG may then need to obligate the Murata/ N'Jikam mandatory. Getting and keeping all the belts seems an impossibility. Becoming a star is within grasps. Canelo is still the A side and will be the obvious target.
I understand you have to take the Canelo fights if they're there. But what I can't understand is taking meaningless fights between. Cotto is not acceptable.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not a double standard. It's a different situation. GGG is considered the best at 160 so he has the responsibility of proving he is the best at 160. He just took his payday prove nothing fight. Now he needs a show me fight. Same as he went Brook-payday, Jacobs-show me. He can't take 3 paydays in a row with Canelo/Cotto(pathetic to even say his name)/Canelo. If he is the best sometime he has to prove it against middleweights.
Canelo isn't considered the best so he doesn't have the responsibility to prove he is best. More power to him if he decides to try to prove he is the best but I don't think anyone expects that.
So Canelo will get a pass for waiting until May but GGG won't? It was a competitive fight. Also scored a 'draw'. The sanctioning bodies will probably order mandatories so I'm not sure GGG will be able to wait for Canelo and keep all the belts. IF GGG is looking to fight in December for me the opponent needs to be either BJS, Charlo or Derevyanchenko.
I'm not the one deciding GGG wants to fight in december. GGG is. The 3 guys you listed are 3 of the 4 I listed for GGG. I just place more emphasis on ability so I add Jacobs and would have BJS last. I don't think BJS is that good based on his recent showings. He didn't seem to handle success well, and seeing how his friend handled success I'm not optimistic he turns it around.
We're basically on the same page. I'm just saying with the sanctioning bodies involved a BJS unification could take precedence over a mandatory. Failing that a mandatory would probably be ordered over Jacobs (unfortunately because Jacobs deserves a rematch). That would be Charlo or Derevyanchenko. GGG may then need to obligate the Murata/ N'Jikam mandatory. Getting and keeping all the belts seems an impossibility. Becoming a star is within grasps. Canelo is still the A side and will be the obvious target.
I understand you have to take the Canelo fights if they're there. But what I can't understand is taking meaningless fights between. Cotto is not acceptable.
I totally agree. I 99% on this thread do that Cotto would be a waste of time. That fights not signed so I'm not stressing it yet until that happens. If it does get made I'll be one of the 1st on here to rubbish it.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
And win the lineal title.
I don't give two squirts about fake things like that. Cotto didn't beat the real Sergio, so Canelo didn't beat the real MW champ. Plus
we all knew GGG was the real MW champ. Sergio knew that, or he would hace fought GGG, Cotto knew that or he would have fought GGG. Canelo tried to wait GGG out, he just couldn't.
GGG can have 40 MW defenses and it will mean less than having 5 really good defenses. In the end it's about who you fight. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard. He only had 13 championship fights total. But he is a legend and always will be because in those 13 there are like 7 fights against HOF guys.
Speaking for others? You might not recognize the lineage but I did. So Martinez wasn't the lineal champion? I think he was, he entered under the middleweight limit and lost. The lineage continues in my eyes. Not trying to convert you but that's my thinking. The champion is not always the best fighter in the division. Best vs champ can be 2 different things. Take Spinks/ Tyson for example.
Not sure where you're going with the last part because I agree that you should be regarded by the opposition you fought.
Once Sergio ducked GGG his lineage was gone as far as I'm concerned. Cotto never fought Sergio, he fought a cripple pretending to be Sergio. So Cotto never was lineal, so Canelo never was lineal. As far as I'm concerned the chain was broken when the champions refused to behave as champions.
The last part is about GGGs legacy so far is built on KOs and number of defenses. He needs the quality opponents to have a lasting legacy. Look how little Calzaghe is discussed, he has the SMW record but when he comes up we usually discuss how talented he was and how underwhelming his CV is. GGG needs the quality opposition to avoid his career being judged like that. He needs to fight the best MWs to have a chance at a lasting legacy.
It can be argued, not rightly in my opinion but it can be argued, GGG has only beaten 1 of the current top 10 MWs(if a person had Jacobs and Canelo fights even)even though he has spent his entire career at MW. He needs to either move up to challenge himself or fight the top MWs. Looking at more middle of the pack Jr Middles doesn't cut it
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
And win the lineal title.
I don't give two squirts about fake things like that. Cotto didn't beat the real Sergio, so Canelo didn't beat the real MW champ. Plus
we all knew GGG was the real MW champ. Sergio knew that, or he would hace fought GGG, Cotto knew that or he would have fought GGG. Canelo tried to wait GGG out, he just couldn't.
GGG can have 40 MW defenses and it will mean less than having 5 really good defenses. In the end it's about who you fight. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard. He only had 13 championship fights total. But he is a legend and always will be because in those 13 there are like 7 fights against HOF guys.
Speaking for others? You might not recognize the lineage but I did. So Martinez wasn't the lineal champion? I think he was, he entered under the middleweight limit and lost. The lineage continues in my eyes. Not trying to convert you but that's my thinking. The champion is not always the best fighter in the division. Best vs champ can be 2 different things. Take Spinks/ Tyson for example.
Not sure where you're going with the last part because I agree that you should be regarded by the opposition you fought.
Once Sergio ducked GGG his lineage was gone as far as I'm concerned. Cotto never fought Sergio, he fought a cripple pretending to be Sergio. So Cotto never was lineal, so Canelo never was lineal. As far as I'm concerned the chain was broken when the champions refused to behave as champions.
The last part is about GGGs legacy so far is built on KOs and number of defenses. He needs the quality opponents to have a lasting legacy. Look how little Calzaghe is discussed, he has the SMW record but when he comes up we usually discuss how talented he was and how underwhelming his CV is. GGG needs the quality opposition to avoid his career being judged like that. He needs to fight the best MWs to have a chance at a lasting legacy.
It can be argued, not rightly in my opinion but it can be argued, GGG has only beaten 1 of the current top 10 MWs(if a person had Jacobs and Canelo fights even)even though he has spent his entire career at MW. He needs to either move up to challenge himself or fight the top MWs. Looking at more middle of the pack Jr Middles doesn't cut it
Your entitled to your opinion and so are others. The man that beat the man. Hopkins reestablished the 160 lineage and it continued down the Canelo. 'Evolved from its predecessor' is the definition.
-
Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
And win the lineal title.
I don't give two squirts about fake things like that. Cotto didn't beat the real Sergio, so Canelo didn't beat the real MW champ. Plus
we all knew GGG was the real MW champ. Sergio knew that, or he would hace fought GGG, Cotto knew that or he would have fought GGG. Canelo tried to wait GGG out, he just couldn't.
GGG can have 40 MW defenses and it will mean less than having 5 really good defenses. In the end it's about who you fight. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard. He only had 13 championship fights total. But he is a legend and always will be because in those 13 there are like 7 fights against HOF guys.
Speaking for others? You might not recognize the lineage but I did. So Martinez wasn't the lineal champion? I think he was, he entered under the middleweight limit and lost. The lineage continues in my eyes. Not trying to convert you but that's my thinking. The champion is not always the best fighter in the division. Best vs champ can be 2 different things. Take Spinks/ Tyson for example.
Not sure where you're going with the last part because I agree that you should be regarded by the opposition you fought.
Once Sergio ducked GGG his lineage was gone as far as I'm concerned. Cotto never fought Sergio, he fought a cripple pretending to be Sergio. So Cotto never was lineal, so Canelo never was lineal. As far as I'm concerned the chain was broken when the champions refused to behave as champions.
The last part is about GGGs legacy so far is built on KOs and number of defenses. He needs the quality opponents to have a lasting legacy. Look how little Calzaghe is discussed, he has the SMW record but when he comes up we usually discuss how talented he was and how underwhelming his CV is. GGG needs the quality opposition to avoid his career being judged like that. He needs to fight the best MWs to have a chance at a lasting legacy.
It can be argued, not rightly in my opinion but it can be argued, GGG has only beaten 1 of the current top 10 MWs(if a person had Jacobs and Canelo fights even)even though he has spent his entire career at MW. He needs to either move up to challenge himself or fight the top MWs. Looking at more middle of the pack Jr Middles doesn't cut it
Your entitled to your opinion and so are others. The man that beat the man. Hopkins reestablished the 160 lineage and it continued down the Canelo. 'Evolved from its predecessor' is the definition.
Are you suggesting Cotto beat a healthy Sergio? Or are you saying it doesn't matter how ruined Sergio was, how weak of an opponent he was at the time, he was still lineal champion. And lineal matters because of the word? Because it ties to the 2nd part, opposition is what matters, not words.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Why the double standard if GGG chooses to wait until May for Canelo?
It's not about double standards. GGG chooses to fight more regularly, because at his age he needs every payday he can get.
If team Canelo wish to wait till May , that's up to them. (I think it's bollocks but hey ho!)
My point is that from now on in , these 2 BOTH need to make top matches up and nothing else will do.
No more easy fights, people are putting these two at the top of the tree, they both need to prove it.
I'm pissed off with people having major profiles and not living up to it.
I was referring to Ron's post that said "It's different for GGG, if he's coming back with Canelo in May that does nothing to prove who is best at 160".
Yes, beating Canelo proves nothing at MW. If Canelo goes on to have a good career at MW it will add to GGGs accomplishments. But so far all Canelo has done at MW is lose to GGG.
And win the lineal title.
I don't give two squirts about fake things like that. Cotto didn't beat the real Sergio, so Canelo didn't beat the real MW champ. Plus
we all knew GGG was the real MW champ. Sergio knew that, or he would hace fought GGG, Cotto knew that or he would have fought GGG. Canelo tried to wait GGG out, he just couldn't.
GGG can have 40 MW defenses and it will mean less than having 5 really good defenses. In the end it's about who you fight. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard. He only had 13 championship fights total. But he is a legend and always will be because in those 13 there are like 7 fights against HOF guys.
Speaking for others? You might not recognize the lineage but I did. So Martinez wasn't the lineal champion? I think he was, he entered under the middleweight limit and lost. The lineage continues in my eyes. Not trying to convert you but that's my thinking. The champion is not always the best fighter in the division. Best vs champ can be 2 different things. Take Spinks/ Tyson for example.
Not sure where you're going with the last part because I agree that you should be regarded by the opposition you fought.
Once Sergio ducked GGG his lineage was gone as far as I'm concerned. Cotto never fought Sergio, he fought a cripple pretending to be Sergio. So Cotto never was lineal, so Canelo never was lineal. As far as I'm concerned the chain was broken when the champions refused to behave as champions.
The last part is about GGGs legacy so far is built on KOs and number of defenses. He needs the quality opponents to have a lasting legacy. Look how little Calzaghe is discussed, he has the SMW record but when he comes up we usually discuss how talented he was and how underwhelming his CV is. GGG needs the quality opposition to avoid his career being judged like that. He needs to fight the best MWs to have a chance at a lasting legacy.
It can be argued, not rightly in my opinion but it can be argued, GGG has only beaten 1 of the current top 10 MWs(if a person had Jacobs and Canelo fights even)even though he has spent his entire career at MW. He needs to either move up to challenge himself or fight the top MWs. Looking at more middle of the pack Jr Middles doesn't cut it
Your entitled to your opinion and so are others. The man that beat the man. Hopkins reestablished the 160 lineage and it continued down the Canelo. 'Evolved from its predecessor' is the definition.
Are you suggesting Cotto beat a healthy Sergio? Or are you saying it doesn't matter how ruined Sergio was, how weak of an opponent he was at the time, he was still lineal champion. And lineal matters because of the word? Because it ties to the 2nd part, opposition is what matters, not words.
Are you suggesting Martinez wasn't the lineal champion? Did it matter that Louis won the lineal title from Braddock? Martinez may not have been 100% entering that ring but he was still the rightful champion.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Getting long so I'll start a new.
Rightful how? I would say he earned the lineal title but I wouldn't say he lived up to the responsibilities of it. I get by the made up rules he did. But there are a lot of stupid rules in this world. If you are hiding from the best fighters you aren't THE CHAMP to me, you are only a champ. Big difference between a champ and the champ in my estimation.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Getting long so I'll start a new.
Rightful how? I would say he earned the lineal title but I wouldn't say he lived up to the responsibilities of it. I get by the made up rules he did. But there are a lot of stupid rules in this world. If you are hiding from the best fighters you aren't THE CHAMP to me, you are only a champ. Big difference between a champ and the champ in my estimation.
I get what your saying but he won his championship in the ring and it's only right he loses it in the ring. He was not the best in the division when he fought Cotto but he was the defending champion. I don't follow many other sports but I guess it's like if a team wins the championship this year then play terribly the next year, they are still the reigning championship until another teams wins it.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Getting long so I'll start a new.
Rightful how? I would say he earned the lineal title but I wouldn't say he lived up to the responsibilities of it. I get by the made up rules he did. But there are a lot of stupid rules in this world. If you are hiding from the best fighters you aren't THE CHAMP to me, you are only a champ. Big difference between a champ and the champ in my estimation.
I get what your saying but he won his championship in the ring and it's only right he loses it in the ring. He was not the best in the division when he fought Cotto but he was the defending champion. I don't follow many other sports but I guess it's like if a team wins the championship this year then play terribly the next year, they are still the reigning championship until another teams wins it.
In other sports the champ can't choose to not play The Steelers, or The Packers. He and GGG were the top 2 guys for 4 common years. GGG wanted to fight, Sergio didn't. To me that is giving it up in the ring. If The Patriots are the champs but they "We don't want to play the Packers, we're going to play CFL teams or Arena teams" they still have their championship from before yes. But the reign ended when they quit defending. Same with boxing to me.
But I get your side. I appreciate you keeping it respectful as well
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Of course, no need to get nasty, we all love the sport but we are bound to disagree at times or it would get boring. I like to use the Patterson/ Liston scenario, or the Hagler situation. Those guys were the considered the best but were denied their shot for years. They weren't considered the champion however until they won it in the ring.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Exactly why I don't put so much value in the words or rules.
For me the best guy is the guy. And it's proven by fighting the other best guys. If 2 top guys don't fight the guy at fault is below the guy that wanted to fight.
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Re: Gennady Golovkin vs Miguel Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Exactly why I don't put so much value in the words or rules.
For me the best guy is the guy. And it's proven by fighting the other best guys. If 2 top guys don't fight the guy at fault is below the guy that wanted to fight.
Yea I'll call him the best in the division but I won't call him champion until he wins it in the ring.
