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Nah, Calzaghe beats him 8-4 in a dull, dull, dull, dull fight full of low blows and cuts. You cannot outwork Calzaghe or neutralise him over 12. The only thing stopping Calzaghe is his hands. Calzaghe would have boxed Kovalev's ears off too as it seems he is a 4 round fighter a bit like Pascal. You cannot have gas tank issues against Calzaghe and you can't put him away with limited output like that. Same with Ward, he just wouldn't beat Calzaghe with 30 punches a round. Impossible.
Calzaghe ducked Ottke, Froch, Pavlik and Taylor. He also scrapped by an old Hopkins so there’s no way he beats a prime Ward. Calzaghe struggled with Bika and Kessler while Ward made both those fights look easy. Ward would UD Calzaghe without much trouble. Kovalev would knock Calzaghe out early and easily.
Joe did not duck those fighters he had better offers and he did not struggle he beat them convincingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
At light heavyweight he was past his prime.
Pavlik was unbeaten at the time and was willing to move up to fight Calzaghe but Joe decided to fight an old Hopkins instead. Ottke was the champion for years at 168 and Calzaghe was never willing to go over and challenge for the titles (instead he defended the shitty WBO belt at home) He obviously avoided Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJoe did not duck those fighters he had better offers and he did not struggle he beat them convincingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
At light heavyweight he was past his prime.
There you go re-writing history to suit your own agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoPavlik was unbeaten at the time and was willing to move up to fight Calzaghe but Joe decided to fight an old Hopkins instead. Ottke was the champion for years at 168 and Calzaghe was never willing to go over and challenge for the titles (instead he defended the shitty WBO belt at home) He obviously avoided Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJoe did not duck those fighters he had better offers and he did not struggle he beat them convincingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
At light heavyweight he was past his prime.
By the time Joe fought Hopkins he had beaten 2 undefeated fighters Lacy and Kessler and then moved up to Light heavyweight to beat 2 legends Roy Jones and Hopkins. He was at the end of his career and retired.
Yeah, thats what I said :confused: he ducked Ottke for years, moved up to avoid Pavlik and then fought a couple of 40 year olds and got dropped by them both (FACTS)
You are silly. Calzaghe was the best fighter to have ever fought at 168 and beats everyone including Jones Jr and Toney. If you cannot stop him, then he beats you and nobody could stop him. There is no evidence to suggest Kovalev who hasn't been stopping anyone for a few years now would stop Calzaghe. Fighters have put him down, but he outhearts Kovalev and exhausts him. Don't forget how quick Calzaghe was, you cannot prepare for a style like that. Kovalev would have a hard time and would get slapped about. There is nothing to suggest Ward would be a problem for Calzaghe. He can make it as dirty as he likes, but he doesn't have power and cannot outland Calzaghe. Ward would be an easier fight than Kovalev IMO. Kovalev would be tricky early on with a good jab, but once he is worn down, Calzaghe takes over and frustrates him.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
The main flaw of Kov and Ward is that they are low output fighters. It makes it even when they fight, but put a Calzaghe in and it's a different level of fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
:beat:
Says the man with posters of Adelaide Byrd on his wall. Don't tell me you don't think she is hot. I have seen your ugly girl threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
:beat:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfSays the man with posters of Adelaide Byrd on his wall. Don't tell me you don't think she is hot. I have seen your ugly girl threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
:beat:
Better Byrd than Calzaghe :rolleyes: You're clearly a faggot
Joe Calzaghe in drag would be far more attractive than Byrd as whatever she is.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoQuote:
Originally Posted by GandalfSays the man with posters of Adelaide Byrd on his wall. Don't tell me you don't think she is hot. I have seen your ugly girl threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
:beat:
Better Byrd than Calzaghe :rolleyes: You're clearly a faggot
There is no right or wrong answer on the winner with Ward vs Calzaghe.
Perhaps pick holes in their opponents and compare.
Plenty of holes in Wards opponents with all the headbutts. Do people remember the Kessler fight? It was one of the most despicable things I have ever seen, then to cap the career off with those low blows against Kovalev. Some might call it great, but Calzaghe knew how to shine with style.
Okay, picking Joe over Ward is acceptable but suggesting he has a better cv is asinine. Joe was a great fighter but had awful opposition compared to his talent level.
Now I was the one that said Ward beats JC , and I think highly of Joe, and I do accept he should've fought in the States more. But come on, he beats Ottke and as for saying that he avoided Froch implying Froch might've beat him is an absolute joke and exposes any credibility your argument might have.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoPavlik was unbeaten at the time and was willing to move up to fight Calzaghe but Joe decided to fight an old Hopkins instead. Ottke was the champion for years at 168 and Calzaghe was never willing to go over and challenge for the titles (instead he defended the shitty WBO belt at home) He obviously avoided Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJoe did not duck those fighters he had better offers and he did not struggle he beat them convincingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
At light heavyweight he was past his prime.
Ward beat Froch EASY and Calzaghe would've completely SCHOOLED Froch, so it doesn't have any bearing on anything.
He's got a cock and knowing where he lives he's probably had it in a few sheepQuote:
Originally Posted by GandalfJoe Calzaghe in drag would be far more attractive than Byrd as whatever she is.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoQuote:
Originally Posted by GandalfSays the man with posters of Adelaide Byrd on his wall. Don't tell me you don't think she is hot. I have seen your ugly girl threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
:beat:
Better Byrd than Calzaghe :rolleyes: You're clearly a faggot
He "would've" beat Ottke and he "would've" beat Froch but he didn't so it doesn't count. Floyd "would've" beat Thurman, Spence, Crawford, Golovkin and Garcia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraNow I was the one that said Ward beats JC , and I think highly of Joe, and I do accept he should've fought in the States more. But come on, he beats Ottke and as for saying that he avoided Froch implying Froch might've beat him is an absolute joke and exposes any credibility your argument might have.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoPavlik was unbeaten at the time and was willing to move up to fight Calzaghe but Joe decided to fight an old Hopkins instead. Ottke was the champion for years at 168 and Calzaghe was never willing to go over and challenge for the titles (instead he defended the shitty WBO belt at home) He obviously avoided Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJoe did not duck those fighters he had better offers and he did not struggle he beat them convincingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
At light heavyweight he was past his prime.
Ward beat Froch EASY and Calzaghe would've completely SCHOOLED Froch, so it doesn't have any bearing on anything.
Joe could have fought Ottke but the fight never happened. Both are to blame for that
Joe was at the end of his career and fought 2 legends which looks better on his record than Froch. If Joe beat him people like you would have said he was "green" and too early in Carl's career.
Hopkins fight was very close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Hopkins would have got the nod if it wasn't for the white boy comment..then again, that comment made the fight.
Jones was done in the game and picking up pay checks...
Put the same Jones that fought Clinton woods against JC and you really think he would have lost?!
Triple jabs, double uppercuts, jumping uppercuts and hooks, stance switching and did we mention his counterpunch skills?!
Jones in his prime was a cartoon superhero with so many different attributes.
JC had fast hands and a heart full of Duracell but "timing" beats speed.
JC has to be one of the best at 168 (ever!) but lets really breakdown the facts before we put him above a prime Jones Jr.
Again, people on here are confusing their opinions regarding mythical match ups with historical ranking and who accomplished more. Roy may have been able to beat anyone who ever fought at 168, as may Joe C. That being said, Ward was more impressive and beat better competition at 168, completely cleaning out the division prior to moving up, which neither Joe nor Roy ever did (Joe partially unified at least). I will miss Andre Ward, and you can see how great of a fighter, and good of a man he is by how so many of his peers are reacting/speaking out after his retirement.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Andre was so well rounded and physically/mentally strong.
No outstanding skill in one area but very good in all.
Good post, and I only brought up the greats in those divisions because at the end of a top fighter's career you want to think about obviously what was, but also the what if's the imagine if ______ scenarios....it just adds another level to discuss. I certainly didn't mean to side track conversation and just gloss over Andre Ward's achievements of which there are many.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think as much as Andre Ward accomplished, as talented as he showed himself to be, I think he could conceivably hang with anyone of those fighters. I don't think he'd get blasted out early by anybody for certain, he had RJJ type skill, but a B-Hop mindset and fighting style. His hands were fast, he's very athletic, he's got a bit of pop not so much that it's really eye catching, but it was certainly enough to take out an opponent.
So what next for Andre Ward? Does he become a commentator or does he do something different?
Wasn't addressing you with that post, more just a generic/non-specific post. I like hypothetical match ups, was just distinguishing that people shouldn't get wrapped around the "who would win" argument and forget about the "who accomplished more" argument. I agree with your observations about the RJJ/BHOP blend of skill/mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongGood post, and I only brought up the greats in those divisions because at the end of a top fighter's career you want to think about obviously what was, but also the what if's the imagine if ______ scenarios....it just adds another level to discuss. I certainly didn't mean to side track conversation and just gloss over Andre Ward's achievements of which there are many.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think as much as Andre Ward accomplished, as talented as he showed himself to be, I think he could conceivably hang with anyone of those fighters. I don't think he'd get blasted out early by anybody for certain, he had RJJ type skill, but a B-Hop mindset and fighting style. His hands were fast, he's very athletic, he's got a bit of pop not so much that it's really eye catching, but it was certainly enough to take out an opponent.
So what next for Andre Ward? Does he become a commentator or does he do something different?
Andre is VERY talented, intelligent, and articulate, so really the sky is the limit for him. With his mindset and will to succeed, anything he sets his mind to is possible and he will be successful in whatever he chooses. I see him commentating and acting initially, and think he will go on to be a great steward of the sport. BHOP has been my favorite fighter since his draw with Segundo Mercado, but for some reason, I'm more affected watching Ward retire than I was watching Hop retire.
I was just posting to clarify no worries manQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodWasn't addressing you with that post, more just a generic/non-specific post. I like hypothetical match ups, was just distinguishing that people shouldn't get wrapped around the "who would win" argument and forget about the "who accomplished more" argument. I agree with your observations about the RJJ/BHOP blend of skill/mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongGood post, and I only brought up the greats in those divisions because at the end of a top fighter's career you want to think about obviously what was, but also the what if's the imagine if ______ scenarios....it just adds another level to discuss. I certainly didn't mean to side track conversation and just gloss over Andre Ward's achievements of which there are many.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think as much as Andre Ward accomplished, as talented as he showed himself to be, I think he could conceivably hang with anyone of those fighters. I don't think he'd get blasted out early by anybody for certain, he had RJJ type skill, but a B-Hop mindset and fighting style. His hands were fast, he's very athletic, he's got a bit of pop not so much that it's really eye catching, but it was certainly enough to take out an opponent.
So what next for Andre Ward? Does he become a commentator or does he do something different?
Andre is VERY talented, intelligent, and articulate, so really the sky is the limit for him. With his mindset and will to succeed, anything he sets his mind to is possible and he will be successful in whatever he chooses. I see him commentating and acting initially, and think he will go on to be a great steward of the sport. BHOP has been my favorite fighter since his draw with Segundo Mercado, but for some reason, I'm more affected watching Ward retire than I was watching Hop retire.
He may not have had any outstanding physical skill but he did have outstanding ring IQ and adaptabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by impWell said.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Andre was so well rounded and physically/mentally strong.
No outstanding skill in one area but very good in all.
I get the feeling that most of the people posting here are white British which is why Calzaghe is being ranked so highly. If he was African American he'd be getting just as much shit as Ward and Floyd (do on here) but people are bias. Anyone with any sense knows a prime Jones completely embarrasses any version of Calzaghe.
How do you KNOW Roy completely embarrasses a prime Joe C.? You THINK Roy would definitely win, but you don't KNOW that he would since they never fought each other (during their primes). A week before the fight people KNEW Tyson would beat Douglas. They KNEW he would beat Evander. A week before the fight people KNEW Tito, Pavilik, and Tarver would beat Hop. People KNEW Jeff Lacy would beat Joe C.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
The point is, you're opinion is that Roy would definitely win, and you MAY be correct. It isn't a given, by any stretch of the imagination though. Joe was an elite fighter, and other than a weight drained, ill prepared Toney, Roy didn't fight, let alone dominate elite fighters. He looked invincible vs Glenn Kelleys, Bryant Brannon, Vinny Paz (former lightweight by the way), Antoine Byrd...etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodHow do you KNOW Roy completely embarrasses a prime Joe C.? You THINK Roy would definitely win, but you don't KNOW that he would since they never fought each other. A week before the fight people KNEW Tyson would beat Douglas. They KNEW he would beat Evander. A week before the fight people KNEW Tito, Pavilik, and Tarver would beat Hop. People KNEW Jeff Lacy would beat Joe C.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
The point is, you're opinion is that Roy would definitely win, and you MAY be correct. It isn't a given, by any stretch of the imagination though. Joe was an elite fighter, and other than a weight drained, ill prepared Toney, Roy didn't fight, let alone dominate elite fighters. He looked invincible vs Glenn Kelleys, Bryant Brannon, Vinny Paz (former lightweight by the way), Antoine Byrd...etc.
A bit of bragging but I won money on all those fights except Tyson/Douglas. I was too young to bet money on fights then because I didn't have any. And I never would have bet on Douglas anyway. But every other fight I KNEW and I was right 😉
NopeQuote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
Don't go trusting your feelings then. If Joe Calzaghe was African American he would not be Joe Calzaghe would he? Ward and Floyd don't get shit because they are American or because they are black, there are scores of Black and American fighters whom people love. Floyd was great but he along with Ward is a bit of a dick. You can be born anywhere and still be a dick, which is how you mange despite being British.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I can understand people thinking Floyd is a dick but Ward doesn't come across that way..Wards style is just not fan friendly to the majority.
Ward Calzaghe is a 50/50 fight, got no problem with anyone going one way or the other on that. In terms of resume Ward trumps Calzaghe pretty comfortably in both weight classes for me, it's pretty clear cut. Olympic Gold, Super six, the double over Kovalev.
I'll say this for Joe. He beat a better version of Kessler than Ward or Froch did. Joe took something from Kessler. Not on then scale of Lacy who was stripped bare and sent packing, but he made a dent on him.
Some will then counter and say "how good was Jeff Lacy anyway?"
Kessler and Lacy were JC best wins.
Ward had far less professional fights but tougher opponents.
Ward can walk away happy..and so did JC.
I disagree with this one. Calzaghe was in some way a mirror image of Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraProbably had a thread to itself in the past, but as much as I like and rate Calzaghe, Ward beats him prime for prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe is up there with Joe Calzaghe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Fight 3mins each round of the entire fight (unlike Kovalev)
Fast Hands
Granite Chin
Adjust style mid fight (as shown versus undefeated Kessler)
Dig deep to win (versus eubank)
Cold hearted bastard who hated to lose
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Originally Posted by imp
"How good was Jeff Lacy anyway?" comes after the fight.
At the time, he was perceived as very dangerous at SM who was going to blow Calzaghe away
Exactly! I cant wait to see how Rigondeaux performs in December. Finally a match worth of his talents is being made.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanzDon't go trusting your feelings then. If Joe Calzaghe was African American he would not be Joe Calzaghe would he? Ward and Floyd don't get shit because they are American or because they are black, there are scores of Black and American fighters whom people love. Floyd was great but he along with Ward is a bit of a dick. You can be born anywhere and still be a dick, which is how you mange despite being British.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
Smart move to retire. Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by impHopkins fight was very close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Hopkins would have got the nod if it wasn't for the white boy comment..then again, that comment made the fight.
Jones was done in the game and picking up pay checks...
Put the same Jones that fought Clinton woods against JC and you really think he would have lost?!
Triple jabs, double uppercuts, jumping uppercuts and hooks, stance switching and did we mention his counterpunch skills?!
Jones in his prime was a cartoon superhero with so many different attributes.
JC had fast hands and a heart full of Duracell but "timing" beats speed.
JC has to be one of the best at 168 (ever!) but lets really breakdown the facts before we put him above a prime Jones Jr.
Exactly! An old washed up Jones put Calzaghe down so imagine what he would've done to him in his prime.
Roy is a great and prime Jones beats Joe but Jones put him down with a forearm and was completely outclassed in the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMoQuote:
Originally Posted by impHopkins fight was very close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Hopkins would have got the nod if it wasn't for the white boy comment..then again, that comment made the fight.
Jones was done in the game and picking up pay checks...
Put the same Jones that fought Clinton woods against JC and you really think he would have lost?!
Triple jabs, double uppercuts, jumping uppercuts and hooks, stance switching and did we mention his counterpunch skills?!
Jones in his prime was a cartoon superhero with so many different attributes.
JC had fast hands and a heart full of Duracell but "timing" beats speed.
JC has to be one of the best at 168 (ever!) but lets really breakdown the facts before we put him above a prime Jones Jr.
Exactly! An old washed up Jones put Calzaghe down so imagine what he would've done to him in his prime.