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Size right hand speed and attitude would punch holes through most defensive traps Canelo banks on. I think Canelo will come out of Golovkin more stuck between styles and easier to find. He got the win over one 'monster' and now he'll go back into witness protection opponent wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Yes, Sanchez sang that song all around town and nobody stopped him. If your buddy tells the girls you are talking to you don’t have a girlfriend and you don’t refute it you have backed the statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaAgain, wasn't it Sanchez who said they wouldn't fight Charlo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHas he announced an opponent? Just look at what has happened, GGG has petitioned the WBC for the option to skip Charlo, he has contacted Saunders and Andrade’s people for if the WBC refuses to allow him to skip Charlo. It seems we must accept that they meant it when they said they would never fight Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
The Saunders/Andrade and Jacobs/Derevy winners are bigger, better, more relevant fights in my opinion. What's Charlo's best win at 160? And if he can make millions against Canelo again, why would he bother with Jermall?
Also the Haymon/Oscar beef could also make negotiations frustrating.
Jacobs has the size and movement to give Canelo grief.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I’m not sure what Oscar/Harmon has to do with negotiations on GGG/Charlo. Did Oscar get rights to GGG out of the fight agreement with Canelo?
So GGG never said that he won't fight Jermall?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYes, Sanchez sang that song all around town and nobody stopped him. If your buddy tells the girls you are talking to you don’t have a girlfriend and you don’t refute it you have backed the statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaAgain, wasn't it Sanchez who said they wouldn't fight Charlo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHas he announced an opponent? Just look at what has happened, GGG has petitioned the WBC for the option to skip Charlo, he has contacted Saunders and Andrade’s people for if the WBC refuses to allow him to skip Charlo. It seems we must accept that they meant it when they said they would never fight Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
The Saunders/Andrade and Jacobs/Derevy winners are bigger, better, more relevant fights in my opinion. What's Charlo's best win at 160? And if he can make millions against Canelo again, why would he bother with Jermall?
Also the Haymon/Oscar beef could also make negotiations frustrating.
Jacobs has the size and movement to give Canelo grief.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I’m not sure what Oscar/Harmon has to do with negotiations on GGG/Charlo. Did Oscar get rights to GGG out of the fight agreement with Canelo?
All I've ever seen Gennady say, is 'of course' he would fight Charlo. So I'm not sure where your getting that he hasn't.
I was meaning if a Canelo/Charlo fight had to be negotiated, if GGG went another direction, the negotiations could be tedious. No sure that's a problem anymore, if Canelo stays at 168.
Well, okay, so GGG allowed Sanchez to run all over town saying they would never fight Charlo, he leaves Sanchez so he is not tied to that. So let’s look at his actions and see if they contradict what Sanchez said. WBC orders him to fight Charlo, his response is to file an appeal (already done) to not have to fight Charlo. He also contacts Andrade/Saunders and Derevyanchenko/Jacobs. Great options but does it sound like he wants to fight Charlo?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSo GGG never said that he won't fight Jermall?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYes, Sanchez sang that song all around town and nobody stopped him. If your buddy tells the girls you are talking to you don’t have a girlfriend and you don’t refute it you have backed the statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaAgain, wasn't it Sanchez who said they wouldn't fight Charlo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHas he announced an opponent? Just look at what has happened, GGG has petitioned the WBC for the option to skip Charlo, he has contacted Saunders and Andrade’s people for if the WBC refuses to allow him to skip Charlo. It seems we must accept that they meant it when they said they would never fight Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
The Saunders/Andrade and Jacobs/Derevy winners are bigger, better, more relevant fights in my opinion. What's Charlo's best win at 160? And if he can make millions against Canelo again, why would he bother with Jermall?
Also the Haymon/Oscar beef could also make negotiations frustrating.
Jacobs has the size and movement to give Canelo grief.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I’m not sure what Oscar/Harmon has to do with negotiations on GGG/Charlo. Did Oscar get rights to GGG out of the fight agreement with Canelo?
All I've ever seen Gennady say, is 'of course' he would fight Charlo. So I'm not sure where your getting that he hasn't.
I was meaning if a Canelo/Charlo fight had to be negotiated, if GGG went another direction, the negotiations could be tedious. No sure that's a problem anymore, if Canelo stays at 168.
Understand I’m not being condescending in the least, I’m asking your opinion, does that sound like he wants to fight Charlo?
Let me make this perfectly clear because I get the rap of a GGG hater because I have wanted him in tough fights. I think any of Saunders, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko or Charlo is awesome and look forward to it and will have great respect for it.
When GGG is asked if he would fight Charlo, he says "Of course" or "absolutely".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWell, okay, so GGG allowed Sanchez to run all over town saying they would never fight Charlo, he leaves Sanchez so he is not tied to that. So let’s look at his actions and see if they contradict what Sanchez said. WBC orders him to fight Charlo, his response is to file an appeal (already done) to not have to fight Charlo. He also contacts Andrade/Saunders and Derevyanchenko/Jacobs. Great options but does it sound like he wants to fight Charlo?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSo GGG never said that he won't fight Jermall?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYes, Sanchez sang that song all around town and nobody stopped him. If your buddy tells the girls you are talking to you don’t have a girlfriend and you don’t refute it you have backed the statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaAgain, wasn't it Sanchez who said they wouldn't fight Charlo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHas he announced an opponent? Just look at what has happened, GGG has petitioned the WBC for the option to skip Charlo, he has contacted Saunders and Andrade’s people for if the WBC refuses to allow him to skip Charlo. It seems we must accept that they meant it when they said they would never fight Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
The Saunders/Andrade and Jacobs/Derevy winners are bigger, better, more relevant fights in my opinion. What's Charlo's best win at 160? And if he can make millions against Canelo again, why would he bother with Jermall?
Also the Haymon/Oscar beef could also make negotiations frustrating.
Jacobs has the size and movement to give Canelo grief.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I’m not sure what Oscar/Harmon has to do with negotiations on GGG/Charlo. Did Oscar get rights to GGG out of the fight agreement with Canelo?
All I've ever seen Gennady say, is 'of course' he would fight Charlo. So I'm not sure where your getting that he hasn't.
I was meaning if a Canelo/Charlo fight had to be negotiated, if GGG went another direction, the negotiations could be tedious. No sure that's a problem anymore, if Canelo stays at 168.
Understand I’m not being condescending in the least, I’m asking your opinion, does that sound like he wants to fight Charlo?
Let me make this perfectly clear because I get the rap of a GGG hater because I have wanted him in tough fights. I think any of Saunders, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko or Charlo is awesome and look forward to it and will have great respect for it.
I don't give a f-ck what Sanchez says, he always talks dumb sh-t. But it seems you are implying that when asked if he would fight Charlo, GGG says he won't, which isn't the case. I can post these vids if you like, but they are easy enough to find.
GGG just fought one of the sports biggest stars, in a multi million dollar payday, in a fight where he (and many) feel, he was on the receiving end of a bad decision. So logically, he wants to right that wrong. It makes the most sense to him for every reason, money, fame, setting the record straight etc. A Canelo fight would be (and is) a priority for any fighter. Not just GGG, who feels he has already beaten him twice.
Like I have said previously the Jacobs/Derevy or Saunders/Andrade winners are more relevant fights, than Charlo, I feel they would be at least similar, if not bigger earners, plus the also would carry titles. A Murata fight would also be much bigger financially (especially in Japan) and also carries a title.
I know titles don't mean sh-t, but when dealing with the likes of GBP, coming in as a mandatory, I would not be surprised to see them attempt to try and use the championship split ‰ to try and limit GGGs earnings. So a title brings a bit more of a bargaining chip to the negotiating table, if and when a 3rd Canelo fight happens.
So a Charlo fight (although a fantastic match up) just didn't really make a lot of sense from GGGs side.
So you are happy to accept when Charlo says he will fight GGG, but won't give GGG the same courtesy?
Charlo tweeted on the day (May have been the day before) the WBC announce GGG/Charlo as an eliminator, that his next fight was in December. Since then nothing, no talk of being disappointed with the WBC about keeping Canelo from him, no talk of not fighting in December and instead focusing on GGG (we know there's no way a GGG fight could be made for December). Now if course there will be negotiations going on behind closed doors that we are unaware of, but that shouldn't stop Jermall from talking about what he wants, GGGs team have already outlined there preferences.
So as to my opinion, yes I believe GGG would want to fight Charlo (as he has said he would) if it was the best scenario for him. Which as I have outlined, it is not really.
Why fight Jermall (what was his best win at 160 again?) when there will be more relevant and more financially rewarding (it is prize fight after all) bouts available. To me that just seems like common sense, not that GGG doesn't want to fight Charlo.
Well, okay, so GGG allowed Sanchez to run all over town saying they would never fight Charlo, he leaves Sanchez so he is not tied to that. So let’s look at his actions and see if they contradict what Sanchez said. WBC orders him to fight Charlo, his response is to file an appeal (already done) to not have to fight Charlo. He also contacts Andrade/Saunders and Derevyanchenko/Jacobs. Great options but does it sound like he wants to fight Charlo?
Understand I’m not being condescending in the least, I’m asking your opinion, does that sound like he wants to fight Charlo?
Let me make this perfectly clear because I get the rap of a GGG hater because I have wanted him in tough fights. I think any of Saunders, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko or Charlo is awesome and look forward to it and will have great respect for it.[/QUOTE]
When GGG is asked if he would fight Charlo, he says "Of course" or "absolutely".
I don't give a f-ck what Sanchez says, he always talks dumb sh-t. But it seems you are implying that when asked if he would fight Charlo, GGG says he won't, which isn't the case. I can post these vids if you like, but they are easy enough to find.
GGG just fought one of the sports biggest stars, in a multi million dollar payday, in a fight where he (and many) feel, he was on the receiving end of a bad decision. So logically, he wants to right that wrong. It makes the most sense to him for every reason, money, fame, setting the record straight etc. A Canelo fight would be (and is) a priority for any fighter. Not just GGG, who feels he has already beaten him twice.
Like I have said previously the Jacobs/Derevy or Saunders/Andrade winners are more relevant fights, than Charlo, I feel they would be at least similar, if not bigger earners, plus the also would carry titles. A Murata fight would also be much bigger financially (especially in Japan) and also carries a title.
I know titles don't mean sh-t, but when dealing with the likes of GBP, coming in as a mandatory, I would not be surprised to see them attempt to try and use the championship split ‰ to try and limit GGGs earnings. So a title brings a bit more of a bargaining chip to the negotiating table, if and when a 3rd Canelo fight happens.
So a Charlo fight (although a fantastic match up) just didn't really make a lot of sense from GGGs side.
So you are happy to accept when Charlo says he will fight GGG, but won't give GGG the same courtesy?
Charlo tweeted on the day (May have been the day before) the WBC announce GGG/Charlo as an eliminator, that his next fight was in December. Since then nothing, no talk of being disappointed with the WBC about keeping Canelo from him, no talk of not fighting in December and instead focusing on GGG (we know there's no way a GGG fight could be made for December). Now if course there will be negotiations going on behind closed doors that we are unaware of, but that shouldn't stop Jermall from talking about what he wants, GGGs team have already outlined there preferences.
So as to my opinion, yes I believe GGG would want to fight Charlo (as he has said he would) if it was the best scenario for him. Which as I have outlined, it is not really.
Why fight Jermall (what was his best win at 160 again?) when there will be more relevant and more financially rewarding (it is prize fight after all) bouts available. To me that just seems like common sense, not that GGG doesn't want to fight Charlo.[/QUOTE]
So under a different set of circumstances you believe GGG would want to fight but under the current set of circumstances you admit he doesn’t or not? Because you sort of tip toed around that
Keep in mind the know facts that he filed a petition not to fight him and contacted at least 4 other camps about potential fights if the WBC denies his appeal. None of which guarantees him Canelo as a Charlo fight does.
One other thing, why can Canelo fight in December but GGG can’t?
When GGG is asked if he would fight Charlo, he says "Of course" or "absolutely".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I don't give a f-ck what Sanchez says, he always talks dumb sh-t. But it seems you are implying that when asked if he would fight Charlo, GGG says he won't, which isn't the case. I can post these vids if you like, but they are easy enough to find.
GGG just fought one of the sports biggest stars, in a multi million dollar payday, in a fight where he (and many) feel, he was on the receiving end of a bad decision. So logically, he wants to right that wrong. It makes the most sense to him for every reason, money, fame, setting the record straight etc. A Canelo fight would be (and is) a priority for any fighter. Not just GGG, who feels he has already beaten him twice.
Like I have said previously the Jacobs/Derevy or Saunders/Andrade winners are more relevant fights, than Charlo, I feel they would be at least similar, if not bigger earners, plus the also would carry titles. A Murata fight would also be much bigger financially (especially in Japan) and also carries a title.
I know titles don't mean sh-t, but when dealing with the likes of GBP, coming in as a mandatory, I would not be surprised to see them attempt to try and use the championship split ‰ to try and limit GGGs earnings. So a title brings a bit more of a bargaining chip to the negotiating table, if and when a 3rd Canelo fight happens.
So a Charlo fight (although a fantastic match up) just didn't really make a lot of sense from GGGs side.
So you are happy to accept when Charlo says he will fight GGG, but won't give GGG the same courtesy?
Charlo tweeted on the day (May have been the day before) the WBC announce GGG/Charlo as an eliminator, that his next fight was in December. Since then nothing, no talk of being disappointed with the WBC about keeping Canelo from him, no talk of not fighting in December and instead focusing on GGG (we know there's no way a GGG fight could be made for December). Now if course there will be negotiations going on behind closed doors that we are unaware of, but that shouldn't stop Jermall from talking about what he wants, GGGs team have already outlined there preferences.
So as to my opinion, yes I believe GGG would want to fight Charlo (as he has said he would) if it was the best scenario for him. Which as I have outlined, it is not really.
Why fight Jermall (what was his best win at 160 again?) when there will be more relevant and more financially rewarding (it is prize fight after all) bouts available. To me that just seems like common sense, not that GGG doesn't want to fight Charlo.[/QUOTE]
So under a different set of circumstances you believe GGG would want to fight but under the current set of circumstances you admit he doesn’t or not? Because you sort of tip toed around that
Keep in mind the know facts that he filed a petition not to fight him and contacted at least 4 other camps about potential fights if the WBC denies his appeal. None of which guarantees him Canelo as a Charlo fight does.
One other thing, why can Canelo fight in December but GGG can’t?[/QUOTE]
I don't think I tip toed around it. This is a business at the end of the day. GGG has already said he would absolutely fight Charlo. What more do you want him to say? Again where's Charlo, you are only taking his word as well right? He hasn't signed a contract for GGG yet has he?
If Charlo was a bigger, more relevant fight, yes GGG would fight him. But as I have pointed out, it's not. Again what's Charlo's best win? The other fights I mentioned would have titles involved, or bigger money, or guys with better wins. I already went into detail of why a title can help in negotiations, I seem to be repeating myself here and going in circles. All these other fights are more relevant in 1 way or another than a Charlo fight. Fighting Charlo, especially now with Canelo at 168, still doesn't give GGG anymore of a guarantee at a Canelo shot. Canelo has demonstrated on several occasions that he won't be dictated to by the sanctioning bodies.
Who's to say if GGG fought (and destroyed Jermall) that that would force Canelo into the ring?
Sorry, forgot to respond to your last part.
Do you really believe they could put a GGG/ Charlo fight together for December? I'm not saying that GGG can't fight in December, but he is 36 and probably needs a bit of extra time to recover than a younger man, who has previously tested positive for banned substances.
Would Charlo take that fight in December after only 2 rounds in 18 months?
The key difference is we don’t know for a fact Charlo, who has every right to, has petitioned to avoid GGG. We know GGG petitioned to avoid a Charlo fight. We have no evidence Charlo is looking anywhere else, we know GGG has contacted at least 4 other camps besides Canelo’s and we have no evidence GGG has contacted Charlo’s camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
True we have no evidence Charlo’s camp has contacted GGGs, the difference is who has openly looked elsewhere and openly petitioned to avoid.
It may very well come out Charlo doesn’t want GGG right now. But we know GGG doesn’t want Charlo right now.
We can look at business, next occasion we can look at venues, next occasion...he was GGGs mandatory for over a year.
I don’t think it’s very fair to blame a guy being avoided for his weak opposition until he gets his chance. Once he can choose then it becomes fair to judge. I mean who’s fault is it that Charlo hasn’t faced GGG for example?
I can certainly understand GGG looking at someone else, but looking at everyone else looks bad.
Further on The Who has he fought front,,,when he and Jacobs went at it he said they could do it next, they could pay step aside money and get it on. Jacobs chose not to. Do we blame Charlo for Jacobs choosing to fight a nobody instead?
Lemieux and Saunders obviously wouldn’t fight him or Jacobs, so do we blame Charlo for them having no interest?
Like I have pointed out, the Charlo fight is not as relevant as the others for 1 reason or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThe key difference is we don’t know for a fact Charlo, who has every right to, has petitioned to avoid GGG. We know GGG petitioned to avoid a Charlo fight. We have no evidence Charlo is looking anywhere else, we know GGG has contacted at least 4 other camps besides Canelo’s and we have no evidence GGG has contacted Charlo’s camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
True we have no evidence Charlo’s camp has contacted GGGs, the difference is who has openly looked elsewhere and openly petitioned to avoid.
It may very well come out Charlo doesn’t want GGG right now. But we know GGG doesn’t want Charlo right now.
We can look at business, next occasion we can look at venues, next occasion...he was GGGs mandatory for over a year.
I don’t think it’s very fair to blame a guy being avoided for his weak opposition until he gets his chance. Once he can choose then it becomes fair to judge. I mean who’s fault is it that Charlo hasn’t faced GGG for example?
I can certainly understand GGG looking at someone else, but looking at everyone else looks bad.
If Charlo brought GGG 40 million, GGG would fight him tomorrow. GGG has said he would fight him.
Charlo won't even bring in as much as a Murata fight in Japan would, GGG will be idolized over there.
The winner of either of the middleweight title fights, will obviously have a better name on there records than Charlo has, as well as a title.
Of course Charlo would want GGG or Canelo for that matter, that's common sense, you don't call out guys below you, and the purses he would get for those fights will be career highs.
What does Charlo bring to the table? Other that being a top fight?
I think it's unfair to say GGG is avoiding Charlo, sure Charlo may have been mandatory but we all know the sanctioning bodies are ridiculous. Who did Charlo beat to get that spot again?
Unfortunately Charlo just isn't in that bracket yet, and if you feel beating the likes of Heiland and Centeno should put him ahead of Jacobs (who arguably beat GGG) and is not fighting another top middleweight, or Saunders/ Andrade, or a huge even against Murata, then that's fine, that's your opinion. I definitely feel a Charlo fight would be more difficult than some of those, but he needs to get in line.
No ones blaming Charlo for not getting these fights, but he doesn't get credit for it either. When did he last fight. I feel sorry for both Charlo's. Very badly managed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
But you are blaming Charlo when you keep saying who has he fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNo ones blaming Charlo for not getting these fights, but he doesn't get credit for it either. When did he last fight. I feel sorry for both Charlo's. Very badly managed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
And speaking of previous post you say we can’t say GGG is avoiding him, he literally petitioned to avoid him. So he is avoiding him. Sure, he has his reasons. And I don’t have a problem with them. My issue is that we must acknowledge that he is avoiding him.
Like I’ve said, the other fights are good fights. I won’t complain about any of them. But it is not an insult to say GGG is avoiding Charlo, it’s just a fact. It’s 82 degrees outside and GGG is avoiding Charlo.
I'm not blaming Charlo, but who has he fought? You want to talk about facts but ignore the obvious. It's not his entire fault that he hasn't got the big fights, but it is a fact that he has no decent wins at 160. Not blaming, just stating a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonBut you are blaming Charlo when you keep saying who has he fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNo ones blaming Charlo for not getting these fights, but he doesn't get credit for it either. When did he last fight. I feel sorry for both Charlo's. Very badly managed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
And speaking of previous post you say we can’t say GGG is avoiding him, he literally petitioned to avoid him. So he is avoiding him. Sure, he has his reasons. And I don’t have a problem with them. My issue is that we must acknowledge that he is avoiding him.
Like I’ve said, the other fights are good fights. I won’t complain about any of them. But it is not an insult to say GGG is avoiding Charlo, it’s just a fact. It’s 82 degrees outside and GGG is avoiding Charlo.
If you think GGG is avoiding Charlo, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I have gone into detail in this thread on why other fights are more relevant. Like I said, you don't go after guys that are below you. They come after you. A Charlo fight is just not relevant (no matter how good a match up it is) to GGGs plans at this stage. Of course Charlo wants these big money fights, he doesn't want to keep fighting the Centeno's of the world. GGG is chasing the bigger, better fights. Canelo over Charlo is an obvious choice right? GGG is trying to do whats best for his career, as is Charlo. Fighting and beating Charlo does nothing for GGG at this stage, it still doesn't guarantee him a shot at Canelo. Beating the winners of the upcoming middleweight title fights hold more value on legacy. GGG is in a no win situation with Charlo, if he fights and beats him, people will say, "Who did Charlo beat?", "What had Charlo done at 160?". At least Jacobs and Saunders have won titles at the weight and have recorded some decent victories at the weight.
Charlo will probably fight someone like Monroe Jr, if he fights in December, to shake of some rust and keep his WBC interim title. Should we then say Charlo is avoiding GGG?
If anyone's avoiding Charlo, it's Canelo.
Canelo didn’t file a petition asking to avoid Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
He didn't ask for an immediate rematch to 'avoid' Charlo. He filed it because he feels he deserves it and it's worth 40 mil against one of the biggest stars in the sport. Charlo is not even in the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonCanelo didn’t file a petition asking to avoid Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Canelo used the WBC to avoid both Charlo and GGG.
Also I don't think GGGs team have decided what route to take yet. They haven't said they won't take the ordered Charlo fight. Has Charlo's team confirmed they'll take the ordered fight? Because I haven't seen anything.
Charlo is unproven at 160. No ones avoiding him.
Canelo has a fight lined up. They haven’t withdrawn the petition. So it is literally to avoid Charlo. He wants the mandatory spot without fighting him. It is by definition to avoid him.
Like you say, he has other options, and they are fine. But the petition is textbook avoiding.
Completely disagree. The king doesn't mingle with the peasants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Charlo is still at the kids table.
A “petition to avoid” is not avoiding anymore. We have truly reached the point where nothing has meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaCompletely disagree. The king doesn't mingle with the peasants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Charlo is still at the kids table.
The king hides behind the peasants, some things never change.
Sorry for the length. I’m going to try this one last time and then I’ll leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonA “petition to avoid” is not avoiding anymore. We have truly reached the point where nothing has meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaCompletely disagree. The king doesn't mingle with the peasants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Charlo is still at the kids table.
The king hides behind the peasants, some things never change.
Just a quick thing, would you want to earn $40mil plus or a portion of that?
Firstly, Canelo is the one avoiding both Charlo and GGG. Canelo along with GBP requested a voluntary defence, this is why the WBC mandated Charlo/ GGG. Charlo is already the interim champion, why should he need to fight GGG to get what he is already entitled to? Who does it help to have Charlo and GGG face each other? It could more than likey be a very physical fight, taking a bit out of both, no matter who wins. It also gives GBP and Canelo a chance to assess what the winner looks like. GGG may win, but will be older and having possibly been in back to back gruelling fights, may be ripe for the picking. Point being if either GGG or Charlo looks outstanding (a first round KO by either for example), Canelo now has the luxury of deciding to stay at 168, where in my opinion the competition doesn’t appear as stiff.
This is so beneficial for Canelo, instead of having to face the interim champ Charlo or an immediate rubber match with Golovkin, Canelo has the perfect set up to allow them to try and eliminate the other. And then he can still decide not fight the winner, with a now built in excuse of wanting to campaign at 168. Now normally I would be all for a Charlo/GGG type fight (and I would love to see it), but right at this moment, it’s not the best fight that can be made at 160, or the best fight for GGG. It is obviously the right fight for Charlo, outside of Canelo.
All this assistance from the WBC, an organisation who Canelo trashed and opted to drop their belt, instead of being dictated to by them. Why would they go out of their way to assist a guy who basically gave them the finger? Couldn’t be the money and trappings Canelo brings could it?
So the only one here avoiding is Canelo.
Ok so secondly let’s get to GGG and the best fights at 160 and for GGG personally. Now his team has said he was going to sit out until May for Canelo, but that was before the WBC Charlo mandate. So he could possibly fight again before the end of the year, but more than likely he’ll be back next year.
Obviously he wants Canelo immediately (who wanted right?). GGG feels he’s beaten him twice already, he ain’t getting any younger and it’s another multimillion dollar payday. Wanting to get crazy money against a guy you feel you have already beaten twice and have had the calls go against you both times vs a fight with Charlo is a no brainer. Calling it ‘avoiding’ shows an agenda or bias. So Canelo is the #1 target.
From there GGG is going to look down the list at the biggest fights that will bring the biggest purses. So big fights, I’ll list them how I see them being the most relevant to GGG’s career:
The Jacobs/ Derevyanchenko winner at the end of this month. Probably won’t be ready to fight again until around February at the earliest. Winner will hold the IBF title. If it’s Jacobs, it’s already got history and many would want to see it. Especially if Jacobs impresses. I also think the fight makes more than a Charlo fight. This is the 2nd most relevant fight for GGG in my opinion.
If it’s Sergiy, it probably won’t be as big an earner as a Jacobs fight but for fans it would be a beast of a match up. Again if Derevyanchenko impresses, then it could start to build a bit of a buzz. The fight would have a bit of history, with the whole GGG avoided Derevyanchenko when he was mandatory thing and getting stripped. The win over Jacobs would be his biggest win at 160. There are also many who feel Jacobs beat GGG, so it would also give Derevyanchenko instant legitimacy. GGG could win the title and use it to push for a unification with Canelo. I would rate this as the 4th most relevant fight for GGG.
The Saunders/ Andrade winner if the fight still happens on Oct-20. Probably won’t be ready again until February at earliest as well. The winner will hold the WBO title. If it’s Saunders, then I think it’s the 3rd most relevant fight GGG could take. It makes more than a Charlo fight in my opinion, especially in the UK and is against an established title holder.
If it’s Andrade, the fight is probably the 5th most relevant fight GGG can make, it’s an unbeaten American title holder, the win over Saunders would be his biggest win at 160, but winning the title from him would give GGG a bargaining chip, for a unification with Canelo.
Jermall Charlo I would rate as the 6th most relevant fight. He is an unbeaten American who holds the WBC interim title. Now you could argue that Charlo could be as high as 4th most relevant, and I wouldn’t argue with anyone who did, I just couldn’t see him ahead of fights with Canelo, Jacobs and Saunders, from GGG and his teams point of view. It’s just, he hasn’t really earnt a shot yet at 160. Sure he was a title holder at 154, but so was Andrade. If Andrade has beaten Saunders, then that’s a better scalp in my opinion than Heiland, Centeno and let’s say Monroe Jr.
Murata, I would rate as GGG’s 7th most relevant option, but it could place anywhere from 4 to 7. It would be for the WBA title. Murata is fighting Brant at the end of the month, but I feel confident Murata will win. So probably won’t be back until February at the earliest. Is 1-1 win N’Jikam, but really should be 2-0 for Murata. Is also an Olympic gold medallist. This probably makes more than a Charlo fight, especially if held in Japan.
I’ll stop there, I won’t both looking above or below, or at retired fighters, lets just focus on 160 and what’s current. 7 options are more than enough.
So for GGG to fight Charlo he has to be taking on a guy who is arguably only his 4th (arguably as low as 7th) best option. That just isn’t logical. Wins against title holders give GGG just as much of a guarantee at Canelo as the interim title does, we have seen Canelo drop the belt before, and now he could have a WBA super-middle title.
GGG’s team have said he was going to sit out until a Canelo fight in May, he may chose to fight one of the guys I mentioned early next year instead. We won’t get into GGG moving up or anything here. With Jacobs and Saunders being the best options outside Canelo.
Now lets say Canelo relinquishes the WBC title and remains at 168 and the WBC make Charlo the full champion. And the winners of Jacobs/ Derevyanchenko and Saunders/ Andrade decided to fight each other. And Murata takes on Lemieux. I would bet my house, that if a Canelo fight can’t be made next, then GGG would fight Charlo in a heartbeat. A Charlo/ GGG fight would be a fantastic match up, unfortunately for Charlo, right now he isn’t even close to being in the conversation.
You want to call it avoiding, that’s fine. I call it logical, and basic common sense.
Looks like Charlo will be facing Sulecki next. I guess it’s probably one of the better fights that can be made in December because everybody else already has fights.
Saw this, I like the fight. Charlo needed to shake some rust. It's a better opponent than Monroe Jr would have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Oh well Jermall settled on Monroe Jr, lets hope Ron is consistent and is disappointed with the opponent choice here.
So we now have Canelo holding a couple of belts but his next fight being at 168 against Fielding.
Saunders being stripped and being suspend by the WBO.
Andrade winning the vacant title.
Jacobs winning the vacant IBF title with a SD over Derevyanchenko, and Derevyanchenko establishing himself among the top guys.
Brant dominating Murata with an upset win to grab a portion of a title.
Lemieux is supposed to be fighting Tureano Johnson on the Canelo undercard. I expect he'll have a tougher time than he did against O'Sullivan.
Charlo set to face Monroe at the end of the year.
I'm kind of hoping that the 4 Americans want to find out who's the best.
Canelo should win the title and defend and unify it against the Gilberto Ramirez
Saunders will fight for the WBO next against Andrade.
Golovkin smashes Brant
I think Andrade has been granted a voluntary in Feb. Saunders won't be ranked for 9 months by the WBO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Maybe Saunders fights him later in the year then as I think he withdrew his complaint/appeal probably on a promise that he will get a shot for the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think Andrade has been granted a voluntary in Feb. Saunders won't be ranked for 9 months by the WBO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Last I heard from the recent WBO convention was that they had suspended Saunders for 6 months, and then a further 3 months before he can be rated again. So end of next year at the earliest for the WBO title.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMaybe Saunders fights him later in the year then as I think he withdrew his complaint/appeal probably on a promise that he will get a shot for the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think Andrade has been granted a voluntary in Feb. Saunders won't be ranked for 9 months by the WBO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
So Monroe got pinched by VADA, an adverse finding (whatever that means).
Rumor that Korobov may step in as replacement. That's a better fight to me if it happens.
Not happy with Korobov and wouldn’t have been happy with Monroe Jr either. But the consistency comes with my desire for the guys that can actually choose to fight other top guys to choose to fight other top guys. Charlo can’t say “I want GGG” and get GGG, GGG can say “I want Charlo” and get Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Yea but that's also like saying "I want a paycut and get a paycut".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonNot happy with Korobov and wouldn’t have been happy with Monroe Jr either. But the consistency comes with my desire for the guys that can actually choose to fight other top guys to choose to fight other top guys. Charlo can’t say “I want GGG” and get GGG, GGG can say “I want Charlo” and get Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Seems like Andrade is fighting the Soviet geezer who's name starts with a. I forgot exactly, anyway he's the guy Saunders fought and won a decision against and didn't look so great doing it. I guess they want Andrade to bet him in better style to build up a fight with Saunders next year.
Andrade has wasted so many years doing nothing. He is pretty good and has done basically nothing his whole career
On short notice Korobov is a decent replacement. I think he was training for a fight at 175 on the same weekend. Not sure if he can make 160 in the short time frame. The fight might have to be a catchweight of sorts.
Or like saying “my CV has gaping holes I need to fill if anyone will remember me”. A fake number of “major” title defenses against largely untalented fighters means a talented fighter has value.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaYea but that's also like saying "I want a paycut and get a paycut".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonNot happy with Korobov and wouldn’t have been happy with Monroe Jr either. But the consistency comes with my desire for the guys that can actually choose to fight other top guys to choose to fight other top guys. Charlo can’t say “I want GGG” and get GGG, GGG can say “I want Charlo” and get Charlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
I am so tired of hearing about money. Dude is rich, when do fans get the fights they want?
He’s going to retire with “well, at least he fought Jacobs once, sure it should have been twice but that 1 is all we really got so yeah”
Had no clue Korobov is training here now. Like how he trains
Apparently a big offer has been made to Jermall to face Andrade in 2020.
Let’s hope it happensQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha