Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
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Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
I never said Oscar beat all of his opponets I said the resume was better. I also mentioned somewhere I believe that Oscar beat common opponents at a younger stage in their careers. A stage when the win actually was something of accomplishment.
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Not smart logic at all... Styles make fights
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Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
I have never heard Floyd openly seek out the best. Never one time have I seen him push for a fight with the best in the division he sat in at the time. Win or lose Oscar has sought out the fights. Floyd did not seek out De La Hoya Oscar pushed him for the fight. Same goes for the Hatton bout. I was a Floyd Mayweather JR fan until he left the 135lb division.
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Thats a bunch of booshit... Mayweather was calling Oscar out since his days at 130...
Last time I checked when you reach the top of the mountain you are the one getting called out, not the other way around.
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Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
Again he is a fighter with great skills but happy not going at it with dangerous opponents.
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So going up to 154 to fight Oscar who was one of the top guys wasnt dangerous? Fighting Hatton wasnt dangerous either?
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Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
You mention him just knocking out the #1 ranked LWW in the world but isn't Floyd officially a welterweight? Should he not be looking for the top welterweight opponents out there? I hope you are not going to start using money and fan appeal as an arguement for that one.
I know if Oscar De La Hoya was fighting at welterweight he would be looking for a fight with Cotto or at least Margarito. Regardless if he won or lost.
#1 he will undoubtedly fight the winner of the Marg-Cotto contest when he beats Oscar again...
Oscar fought his last fight at 150lbs with Forbes, and has talked about rematching Floyd at 147, so again your logic and knowledge is a little off there junior.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
All of you do realize that this argument is pure speculation and opinion? Some of you act like what you say is a stone cold fact, and, unless you are magically clairevoyant, there's no way you can say what Floyd's gonna do in the future.
Unless one of you is Floyd? Even then I bet you still don't know ;)
The bottom line is that you can drag out a fighter's list of opponents, pick away at the condition of the opponent at the time of the fight, make a lot of opinionated judgements as to the caliber of that fighter at that point in time...
Kind of like chasing your tail. Either way, please don't act like your beliefs translate into fact. Please realize that your opinion is no more valid than anyone elses.
Thank you.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
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Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
I hate to be the spoiler in all of this but Oscar De La Hoya has the best resume in boxing. Floyd is also known for picking the weakest link in the divisions title holders to accomplish his championship victory. I also do not think Floyd has faced another title holder for a unification bout in his career.
Floyd Mayweather Jr's best opponent's are Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo and Oscar De La Hoya. His other big champions were
Zab Judah after Judah lost to Carlos Baldomir
Arturo Gatti- A shot Arturo Gatti that Oscar beat 4 years earlier and 1 round sooner.
Demarcus Corley on his down slide.
Genaro Hernandez- Oscar beat him 3 years earlier and 2 rounds sooner
Angel Manfredy- No feather in the cap there. A long past his best Jorge Paez and Gatti were his claims to fame.
Jose Luis Castillo- Everyone knows the first fight was a gift.
Top names De La Hoya has faced.
Jimmy Bredahl, Jorge Paez, John John Molina, Rafael Ruelas, Genaro Hernandez (Before Floyd did), Jessie James Leija, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Ike Quartey, Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosley, Arturo Gatti, Javier Castillejo, Fernando Vargas, Yori Boy Campos, Felix Sturm, Ricardo Mayorga, Bernard Hopkins, Steve Forbes and Floyd Himeslf. Also add the top contenders he has beaten and you have maybe one of the best resumes in the history of the sport. Also many of these guys were on the pound for pound list when De La Hoya faced them.
I am not saying that Floyd is not a great fighter but resume wise De La Hoya takes the prize hands down. Yes he is undefeated but is he really undefeated against the absolute best the sport and each of his perspective divisions had to offer?
I agree with you. Oscar has the better resume. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone with a better resume than Oscars.
Your arguements show biase though..'A shot Gatti who Oscar beat 1 round earlier?'...'Genaro Hernandez who Oscar beat 2 rounds sooner?'
So does winning sooner make the performance more impressive? Who would most people say had a better performance against Gatti? I believe most would say Floyd. Gatti caught Oscar at times where as Floyd was invincible against him. There is also an arguement to be made that Floyd was more impressive against Genaro also.
It is also biased because you ripped apart PBF's opposition whilst only namedropping Oscar's opposition. You failed to mention at what point in their career's they were etc
In conclusion, yeah, I agree with you but if you're making an arguement you need to flip the coin and show the other side.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
[quote=JT Rock;526479][quote=Put Em' Up;526358]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
I have never heard Floyd openly seek out the best. Never one time have I seen him push for a fight with the best in the division he sat in at the time. Win or lose Oscar has sought out the fights. Floyd did not seek out De La Hoya Oscar pushed him for the fight. Same goes for the Hatton bout. I was a Floyd Mayweather JR fan until he left the 135lb division.
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Thats a bunch of booshit... Mayweather was calling Oscar out since his days at 130...
Indeed he was, check out his victory after Corley too. He calls out every LWW worth a damn. Also he wanted Zab when he was the unified WW Champion. Not his fault Zab is a phuck head and went on to lose it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
Again he is a fighter with great skills but happy not going at it with dangerous opponents.
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So going up to 154 to fight Oscar who was one of the top guys wasnt dangerous? Fighting Hatton wasnt dangerous either?
They sure were :cool:
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
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Originally Posted by
RozzySean
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Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
So you are giving ODLH resume credit for fighting (but losing) to Tito, Shane, and Hopkins? You also call the first Castillo fight a gift decision, but wasn't the Sturm fight pretty much a gift decision for Oscar? Some would claim Oscar got a bit of a gift in the Quartey fight. And Floyd came back and handled Castillo pretty easily in the rematch.
You mention half a dozen middle of the road guys in Oscar's favor, like Ruelas and Molina, but you leave Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez off the list for Floyd, who are far superior fighters. Chavez was shot when Oscar faced him. And Floyd was freakin 21 when he fought Genaro Hernandez! That counts for something. You knock Manfredy as being no feather because his best wins were Gatti and Paez, but then you use Paez to support your case for Oscar. Manfredy also beat Gabriel Ruelas, a damn good fighter who beat Leija, who you use to support Oscar. When Gatti fought Manfredy, Gatti was pretty much in his prime.
He also just knocked out the top 10 p4p and undefeated Ring #1 LWW champ Ricky Hatton. Oh, and he beat a much larger ODLH at 154 when he started his career at 130. Oscar, who started his career at 135 could never managed a quality win at MW. Don't tell me Sturm. Even if you think he won, it wasn't a quality win with that performance.
Oscar also has a habit of catching guys on the down side, ie Chavez, Pernell, Campos, Mayorga, even Castillejo.
Oscar has a great resume and come September, I'll be rooting like hell for it to be "the night of the jab" so Oscar can put a win over Floyd on his resume. From a personality standpoint, I can't stand PBF and I want to he him humiliated/humbled. Still, facts are facts, Oscar's resume LOOKS much better at the surface level, because you see wins over Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey, and Leija, but Chavez was shot, Whitaker was on the downside, and Quartey was nearly a loss. In his biggest fights, Oscar against prime competition has always come up short, except maybe he got robbed by Mosley.
I respect Oscar a ton more for being willing to take risky fights, staying active, and generally being a good representative for the sport. If you include those as part of his resume, I guess Oscar wins, but if you go just based on the wins and losses, Floyd ranks ahead, unless Oscar adds Floyd to his in the the fall.
I never said Oscar beat all of his opponets I said the resume was better. I also mentioned somewhere I believe that Oscar beat common opponents at a younger stage in their careers. A stage when the win actually was something of accomplishment.
I personally rank Oscars resume better. You may rank Floyd's as better but it is my opinion and I think I am entitled to it. I also mentioned something in my second post in this thread that I was naming the opponents off the top of my head so the fact I left 2 or 3 out is not too bad considering.
I have never heard Floyd openly seek out the best. Never one time have I seen him push for a fight with the best in the division he sat in at the time. Win or lose Oscar has sought out the fights. Floyd did not seek out De La Hoya Oscar pushed him for the fight. Same goes for the Hatton bout. I was a Floyd Mayweather JR fan until he left the 135lb division.
Again he is a fighter with great skills but happy not going at it with dangerous opponents.
You mention him just knocking out the #1 ranked LWW in the world but isn't Floyd officially a welterweight? Should he not be looking for the top welterweight opponents out there? I hope you are not going to start using money and fan appeal as an arguement for that one.
I know if Oscar De La Hoya was fighting at welterweight he would be looking for a fight with Cotto or at least Margarito. Regardless if he won or lost.
Hey, I respect your opinion, and it's a good argument. If you were trying to tell me that, idunno, Zab Judah, had a better resume, I wouldn't have taken the time to reply in detail. It's a good debate. Floyd is technically a WW right now, but he's really a natural LW or LWW. He fights at WW because he can make bigger fights up there, but he would have come down to 140 and done the same thing if it was more practical to make the fight there.
I agree with you 100% that Oscar has alway sought out the best and he's done in without playing all kinds of stupid games like Floyd does. At the lower weights, Floyd sought out the best, but like I agreed, he has cherry-picked at higher weights and didn't fight nearly as often as Oscar did. If he goes on to beat Cotto, it will quite a lot of critics. Floyd wants to fight Cotto, he just wants to build hype and cash in again with Oscar.
I don't agree with trying to minimize the Hatton win. It's a legit, world class star on his resume. Right now, Oscar time on his side, and we'll see what happens when both careers are over.
Fair enough, both sides have valid points. I guess we will have to wait until both men hang them up for good to make a firm decision.
I owe you rep when allowed
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
So you don't think that was a slip VD? I saw it twice, once in real time and once on the replay and it looked like a slip to me...
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Put em up.. you're stretching QUITE a bit here..
JT already touched upon you saying that Floyd doesn't face any dangerous fighters..
maybe you say this because floyd is not a brawler and floyd doesn't get hit nearly as much as another opponent would fighting someone.. but give me a break.. he has fought PLENTY of dangerous fighters.. off the top of my head, the most popular being Corrales, DLH, JLC, Gatti (slow, but has power)
All of those guys have PLENTY of KO power and plenty of KO's..
As far as this topic goes.. DLH has an unbelievable resume.. second to barely anyone.. Floyd is getting there.. he sure has fought plenty of great opposition.. it isn't his fault he beats them all so convincingly..
I sometimes think that if Floyd was a brawler and got into huge battles with all of the top names that he fought then everyone would be ranting and raving about how good he is.. just because of his style he's looked at in a different light..
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Floyd has the best resume simply because he has no losses. As far as competiton, or big names, Holy, BHOP, and Oscar, as well as Winky or Roy have all fought alot of top guys, maybe more than Floyd, but, Floyd hasn't lost yet. I guess it's really how you judge a "resume". If it's just on competition, would a fighter that fought the top 10, but lost 6 of those be considered better than a fighter that fought a mixed half of the top 30 and won em all? Oscar and Holyfield have fought the absolute best of their era, all credit due regardless.
Have to add about the Gatti statement that he was already shot when he fought Floyd, IMO, Gatti after Ward part 1, was the best he'd ever been, although that's not saying a whole lot.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
I think Morrales, Barrerra, and Pac all have good resumes.
I would like to add Winky's resume to the list. He has solid fighter after solid fighter.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
I read too many things to multi-quote everything. Bottom line:
-Floyd's resume is up there, but Oscar's is better.
-Someone mentioned Holyfield and I do think his resume is just as good as Oscars, arguably better.
-Floyd being called a "cherry-picker" is probably because people criticize him for supposedly ducking the elite welterweights. Fighting an old Oscar twice and a person who proved not at his best in the welterweight division, Hatton, disgust many.
-Hatton does have a huge following in this forum.
-"hattonthehammer" is ABSOLUTELY just asking for it!!
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unknowndonor
If it's just on competition, would a fighter that fought the top 10, but lost 6 of those be considered better than a fighter that fought a mixed half of the top 30 and won em all?
So hear you are clearly comparing Zab Judah to Floyd Mayweather at WW right? ;D
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
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Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
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Originally Posted by
JT Rock
No mention of Hatton?
Havent you heard
Hatton is now officially an average, washed up fighter after his close shave
120-108 win against lazcano.
:biting:
The fact that 2 judges scored it 120-108 for Hatton shows they were in the pocket. No matter how many knock downs Lazcano would of scored he was going to win
Im with VD on this one.....Lazcano would have needed a ko just to get a draw that night
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unknowndonor
If it's just on competition, would a fighter that fought the top 10, but lost 6 of those be considered better than a fighter that fought a mixed half of the top 30 and won em all?
So hear you are clearly comparing Zab Judah to Floyd Mayweather at WW right? ;D
LOL,
Didnt have any particular fighters in mind. I put that statement in because how do you define resume? Who you have fought? Or who you have fought and won? If it's who you have fought, then Holy and Oscar have the best resumes, if it's who you have fought and won, then I think Floyd gets the nod, that's all.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unknowndonor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unknowndonor
If it's just on competition, would a fighter that fought the top 10, but lost 6 of those be considered better than a fighter that fought a mixed half of the top 30 and won em all?
So hear you are clearly comparing Zab Judah to Floyd Mayweather at WW right? ;D
LOL,
Didnt have any particular fighters in mind. I put that statement in because how do you define resume? Who you have fought? Or who you have fought and won? If it's who you have fought, then Holy and Oscar have the best resumes, if it's who you have fought and won, then I think Floyd gets the nod, that's all.
Yeah I get what you are saying, I just thought that comparison was a perfect example of what you were saying. Judah love him or hate him has fought more top 10 welters than anyone, although Cotto is cleaning up the list nicely.
