Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
George Foreman would win the whole thing...he had the chin, the power, and the style to deal with the majority of the fighters mentioned.
Sure George would have it tough vs the pure boxers but vs Bowe and Tyson he'd blow them out of the water. Bowe was a good boxer but left himself open to being hit OFTEN and twice in a row is all George would need.... Tyson would be scared shitless of Foreman and the style matchup really favors Foreman considering how easily he handled Frazier and say what you will about Tyson and his head movement but the majority of fighters he fought in his prime either didn't throw with the intent to hurt Tyson OR threw scared.....Foreman would have gone for blood the second the bell rang.
Rocky is hard to throw into this sort of tourney as he was not a true heavyweight...I think his accomplishments were great and he's a great fighter but vs guys who are 6'4 and taller and as heavy as 250 it's like Wlad Klitschko fighting Edison Miranda. Rocky was a great fighter, and I'd like his chances vs Tyson (more from a mental standpoint than a physical standpoint) but no one will listen to that arguement and it's for another thread anyway
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
George Foreman would win the whole thing...he had the chin, the power, and the style to deal with the majority of the fighters mentioned.
Sure George would have it tough vs the pure boxers but vs Bowe and Tyson he'd blow them out of the water. Bowe was a good boxer but left himself open to being hit OFTEN and twice in a row is all George would need.... Tyson would be scared shitless of Foreman and the style matchup really favors Foreman considering how easily he handled Frazier and say what you will about Tyson and his head movement but the majority of fighters he fought in his prime either didn't throw with the intent to hurt Tyson OR threw scared.....Foreman would have gone for blood the second the bell rang.
Rocky is hard to throw into this sort of tourney as he was not a true heavyweight...I think his accomplishments were great and he's a great fighter but vs guys who are 6'4 and taller and as heavy as 250 it's like Wlad Klitschko fighting Edison Miranda. Rocky was a great fighter, and I'd like his chances vs Tyson (more from a mental standpoint than a physical standpoint) but no one will listen to that arguement and it's for another thread anyway
Just a demonstration of the objectivity of it all, but I reckon on their nights Johnson, Ali, Shavers and Lewis could beat George.
However on any given night George could beat Johnso, Shavers and Lewis,
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
George Foreman would win the whole thing...he had the chin, the power, and the style to deal with the majority of the fighters mentioned.
Sure George would have it tough vs the pure boxers but vs Bowe and Tyson he'd blow them out of the water. Bowe was a good boxer but left himself open to being hit OFTEN and twice in a row is all George would need.... Tyson would be scared shitless of Foreman and the style matchup really favors Foreman considering how easily he handled Frazier and say what you will about Tyson and his head movement but the majority of fighters he fought in his prime either didn't throw with the intent to hurt Tyson OR threw scared.....Foreman would have gone for blood the second the bell rang.
Rocky is hard to throw into this sort of tourney as he was not a true heavyweight...I think his accomplishments were great and he's a great fighter but vs guys who are 6'4 and taller and as heavy as 250 it's like Wlad Klitschko fighting Edison Miranda. Rocky was a great fighter, and I'd like his chances vs Tyson (more from a mental standpoint than a physical standpoint) but no one will listen to that arguement and it's for another thread anyway
But Foreman lost to Ali, when he was arguable prime and Ali was arguably past his, so wouldn't that discount him from number 1 slot :-\
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???
I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.
Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.
I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.
Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???
I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.
Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.
I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.
Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day
He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Ali was small in comparison to Lewis and Bowe...yeah he was 6'3-6'4 but 220-225 ain't exactly huge.
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???
I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.
Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.
I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.
Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day
He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe
Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???
I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.
Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.
I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.
Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day
He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe
Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??
Ali schooled Holmes for 3 years as a sparring partner
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe
Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??
Ali schooled Holmes for 3 years as a sparring partner
Not 3 years but who cares ?? Holmes was a novice and Ali was a complete pro so what does that prove ?? you of all people should no sparring holds no water, every boxer has been whooped in sparring at one point even the great Sugar Ray Robinson did. I suppose Greg Page would beat Mike Tyson then going by the logic that Page whooped Tyson in sparring ?? i could be an ass and just say when they met as pro's Holmes whooped Ali, but again Ali was a shot fighter at the time where as Holmes was in his prime, just like Holmes was a novice and Ali was a complete pro when they sparred i just don't see what your trying to prove here with that comment.
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Ali schooled Holmes for 3 years as a sparring partner
...and Holyfield used to whip up on Riddick Bowe in sparring....their actual fights didn't (bar #2) didn't go so easily for Evander
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Ali was small in comparison to Lewis and Bowe...yeah he was 6'3-6'4 but 220-225 ain't exactly huge.
Ali actually dealt very well with taller men now that IO think of it.
One guy that could have troubled Ali....I'm not kidding....is Klitschko. We all saw Ali struggle with Nortons constant counter jab, albeit that Ali was past peak and a younger Ali would have been far better against Norton, but yeah, I think Wlad give him a torrid time and Ali goes for the KO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??
It was three years...Read Boxing Monthly "I learned more from Ali in thoise three years than I doid from anyone else in my life."
As for 1974, Holmes didn't get the better of Ali. He gave Ali a difficult spar, but he never got the better of him.
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Ali was small in comparison to Lewis and Bowe...yeah he was 6'3-6'4 but 220-225 ain't exactly huge.
Ali actually dealt very well with taller men now that IO think of it.
One guy that could have troubled Ali....I'm not kidding....is Klitschko. We all saw Ali struggle with Nortons constant counter jab, albeit that Ali was past peak and a younger Ali would have been far better against Norton, but yeah, I think Wlad give him a torrid time and Ali goes for the KO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??
It was three years...Read Boxing Monthly "I learned more from Ali in thoise three years than I doid from anyone else in my life."
As for 1974, Holmes didn't get the better of Ali. He gave Ali a difficult spar, but he never got the better of him.
Like i said earlier im not really bothered how long he sparred with Ali, Monkey always implies about Ali giving Holmes his first shiner implying thats what would happen if they met as pro's. When the fact is Holmes was a novice at the time where as Ali was an experiened professional boxer, and was only slightly past his peak at that time. I think its just unfair to Larry Holmes using a sparring match as an example of how a prime for prime match up would of gone, when the fact is every great boxer has been whooped in sparring.
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Ali was small in comparison to Lewis and Bowe...yeah he was 6'3-6'4 but 220-225 ain't exactly huge.
Ali actually dealt very well with taller men now that IO think of it.
One guy that could have troubled Ali....I'm not kidding....is Klitschko. We all saw Ali struggle with Nortons constant counter jab, albeit that Ali was past peak and a younger Ali would have been far better against Norton, but yeah, I think Wlad give him a torrid time and Ali goes for the KO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??
It was three years...Read Boxing Monthly "I learned more from Ali in thoise three years than I doid from anyone else in my life."
As for 1974, Holmes didn't get the better of Ali. He gave Ali a difficult spar, but he never got the better of him.
Like i said earlier im not really bothered how long he sparred with Ali, Monkey always implies about Ali giving Holmes his first shiner implying thats what would happen if they met as pro's. When the fact is Holmes was a novice at the time where as Ali was an experiened professional boxer, and was only slightly past his peak at that time. I think its just unfair to Larry Holmes using a sparring match as an example of how a prime for prime match up would of gone, when the fact is every great boxer has been whooped in sparring.
In turn it is then unfair to imply that Holmes may have beaten Ali because he was competitive in sparring.
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Nice thread. I'd love to see and think would see Lewis taking on tyson in a semi final type match with Lewis winning. Then Joe Louis against Jack Johnson with Johnson winning. Then a great match up between Jack Johnson and Lennox Lewis. What a fight that would be. Would it be unlimited rounds? 20 rounds? No gloves? So many questions. And so hard to pick a winner. I've seen more of Lewis so would favour him but when Jack Johnson wanted to win he was almost unstoppable i believe.
Re: The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Ali actually dealt very well with taller men now that IO think of it.
One guy that could have troubled Ali....I'm not kidding....is Klitschko. We all saw Ali struggle with Nortons constant counter jab, albeit that Ali was past peak and a younger Ali would have been far better against Norton, but yeah, I think Wlad give him a torrid time and Ali goes for the KO.
It was three years...Read Boxing Monthly "I learned more from Ali in thoise three years than I doid from anyone else in my life."
As for 1974, Holmes didn't get the better of Ali. He gave Ali a difficult spar, but he never got the better of him.
Like i said earlier im not really bothered how long he sparred with Ali, Monkey always implies about Ali giving Holmes his first shiner implying thats what would happen if they met as pro's. When the fact is Holmes was a novice at the time where as Ali was an experiened professional boxer, and was only slightly past his peak at that time. I think its just unfair to Larry Holmes using a sparring match as an example of how a prime for prime match up would of gone, when the fact is every great boxer has been whooped in sparring.
In turn it is then unfair to imply that Holmes may have beaten Ali because he was competitive in sparring.
Did i say that ?? i said Holmes beat Ali in sparring so why did he not mention that ?? why does he keep bringing up when Holmes was a novice ?? i never implied Holmes would beat Ali because he beat him in sparring in Rumble In The Jungle, you should know i don't use sparring matches as a way to imply thats how it would go in a pro fight, i have used the Tyson vs Page example many times.
