How would a Roy Jones Jr Vs Marvin Hagler fight have ended

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Don't mind Taeth it is not that he swings from Roys nuts it is just that he drinks heavily before posting:D

No one makes Hagler look silly....NO ONE!...That is not to say he could not lose so before you go on a tangent Taeth read the post 4 or 5 times and let it sink in during an episode of Jeopardy before reacting.....

Point is Hagler was too skilled to just be dominated

guys get off of hagler ok?

Don't let just because he is old school cloud your judgement.

People forget how much of a monster Roy was at 168 and how hard he hit and 168 seemed to be more of a natural weight for him.

Now Roy wouldn't stop Hagler, hagler had too good of a chin, but Roy would have outboxed him on his way to a decision.

Roy was extremely freakishly good and powerful at super middleweight.

it befuddles me to no end how people would say that Hagler would have knocked out Roy Jones at super mid.


I see people saying we are talking primes.


If we are talking primes then Roy wins no question and isn't getting knocked out.


If we are talking prime for prime then you can't use Glen Johnson, or tarver.

And the only person who gave Jones trouble was Montell Griffin and Hagler doesn't fight that kind of style.

Stylistically Jones would have been a nightmare for Hagler.

Prime for Prime so I guess we are talking about Roy from the moment he beat James Toney to about 2 fights before Ruiz.

Which Hagler are we talking about?

My question is, if we are talking about primes here, then why is the Johnson or the Tarver fight relevant?

Don't let the fact that Hagler is old school cloud YOUR judgement. Hagler from 78-82. Again, think Roy wins this one by decision, probably 8 rounds to 4.

I don't think stylistically Jones is a nightmare for Hagler. Jones is a stylistic nightmare for a counterpuncher like James Toney or a one-dimensional slugger like Thomas Tate. Or a plodding, slow pressure fighter like Clinton Woods. I think people are saying that based on the Leonard fight, and by that point, Hagler's legs were old and he had become far more one dimensional.

Jones never fought anybody like Hagler in his prime, the combo of power, speed, determination, and skill. The closest, in terms of talent he got was probably Toney, and Toney was much different style than Hagler.

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

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But also too slow.

Roy would make it a stinkfest and take the decision.

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Hagler too slow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwgF0Z981A

I take it you have never seen a prime Hagler just watch him in 1980.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHIo5ylQA8

Hagler was not prime against Hearns or Leonard.

Hagler slow? jeeez bageebs.

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Congratulations you just owned that poster.

Hagler too slow - you can tell the people that only have knowledge of the SRL fight.;D

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Don't let the fact that Hagler is old school cloud YOUR judgement. Hagler from 78-82. Again, think Roy wins this one by decision, probably 8 rounds to 4.

I don't think stylistically Jones is a nightmare for Hagler. Jones is a stylistic nightmare for a counterpuncher like James Toney or a one-dimensional slugger like Thomas Tate. Or a plodding, slow pressure fighter like Clinton Woods. I think people are saying that based on the Leonard fight, and by that point, Hagler's legs were old and he had become far more one dimensional.

Jones never fought anybody like Hagler in his prime, the combo of power, speed, determination, and skill. The closest, in terms of talent he got was probably Toney, and Toney was much different style than Hagler.

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This is a good post

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

The Hagler of 78-83 would knock Jones out the Hagler that fought Hearns and Leonard would lose a close dec to Roy.

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Just my opinion but Hagler would have blistered his ass and frankly I think Hearns would too. Leonard in his prime was a lot smaller than Jones (who dominated at 168-75) so I think Leonard would have been overwhelmed.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Quit hagging from Roy's nuts? How about you quit hanging from the 80's nuts, and get a functioning brian while you are at at. Leonard didn't admit honestly that he couldn't beat Hagler, only in jest, or else he would have never taken the bout. He had no reason to go back into the ring. Anybody that says Ray just stole the last 30 seocnds is stupid and didn't watch the fight. Stop listening to commentators and watch fights for yourself.

As for Hearns having more power then Jones I am calling bullshit right now. P4P at 147 Hearns did, but not in literal comparison, first of all Emanuel Steward said that Hearns didn't actually hit that hard, but he was sneaky with that right hand. Whereas Roy had pure power, he ko'ed 21 of his first 22 opponents, he stopped a lot of tough guys who had never been stopped before Melinga. He landed maybe the hardest shot ever landed below cruiserweight with that right hand to the ribs against Hill... Hill had never been stopped before that punch rocked him. Look what Roy did to Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa... the list goes on.

Roy may have not had the best competition of any fighter ever, but he took out plenty of guys that had among the best chins in the sport when they fought, all the way up to 175. Hell, Roy went up to heavyweight and stunned Ruiz with one of his right hands. I am not even saying that he would have knocked out Hagler, but Hagler wouldn't have been able to walk through Roy shots like it was a day in the park.

Look at Roy against James Toney who came forward during that fight when he could, WHo has had a better chin then James Toney? Probably nobody. Roy couldn't hurt him either, but Roy got to James a few times with body shots, he was able to stay away from Toney all night long, and the few punches James did land, Roy took them quite easily.

Hagler is a great fighter, but Roy is too fast, and too big for him. Roy is a way better fighter on his back foot then Hearns ever was, and he was a way bigger guy that hit harder p4p then Leonard, and also quicker at middleweight/SMW then Ray was. Roy was also great against southpaws.

Also people that are arguing that Hagler was a different fighter when he was younger. Well that would have helped Roy out more, Hagler liked to box a lot more in his prime when his only chance against Roy would be to come with relentless pressure, however Hagler was still a counter puncher in his prime even when coming forward, and there is no way you could fight that way against Roy. Roy was way too fast for Hagler to fight in that style. Hagler tried to fighting that way against Duran and that made that fight a lot closer than it could have been because Duran was faster, and a better boxer then Hagler, it cost Hagler against Leonard early when he tried to outbox him.

James Toney was a great fighter at coming forward and countering, in a fight much closer, but similar to Chavez-Taylor, James Toney had been landing hard right hands against the supremely gifted Michael Nunn all night, until he turned it up late, and Nunn succumbed to the pressure and Toney's power. Toney came forward trying to let Roy lead, and Roy was too fast for TOney to react.

Now you can compare overall, all you want of Hagler to TOney, but Toney is way up there in terms of the best middleweights ever, easily in the top 15 or 20(this being the deepest divison ever IMO). Anyways TOney regardless of his lower rank was faster, had a same caliber of chin, and was a better counter punch then Hagler. He was also harder to hit, but Roy was too elusive, too good at moving, too good at countering. Nobody could counter like ROy and it catches everyone off guard.

Thats why I think Hearns has a better chance against Roy because he would use the range which Roy showed that he was less comfortable in dealing with when he faced Hopkins and Griffin.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Quit hagging from Roy's nuts? How about you quit hanging from the 80's nuts, and get a functioning brian while you are at at. Leonard didn't admit honestly that he couldn't beat Hagler, only in jest, or else he would have never taken the bout. He had no reason to go back into the ring. Anybody that says Ray just stole the last 30 seocnds is stupid and didn't watch the fight. Stop listening to commentators and watch fights for yourself.

As for Hearns having more power then Jones I am calling bullshit right now. P4P at 147 Hearns did, but not in literal comparison, first of all Emanuel Steward said that Hearns didn't actually hit that hard, but he was sneaky with that right hand. Whereas Roy had pure power, he ko'ed 21 of his first 22 opponents, he stopped a lot of tough guys who had never been stopped before Melinga. He landed maybe the hardest shot ever landed below cruiserweight with that right hand to the ribs against Hill... Hill had never been stopped before that punch rocked him. Look what Roy did to Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa... the list goes on.

Roy may have not had the best competition of any fighter ever, but he took out plenty of guys that had among the best chins in the sport when they fought, all the way up to 175. Hell, Roy went up to heavyweight and stunned Ruiz with one of his right hands. I am not even saying that he would have knocked out Hagler, but Hagler wouldn't have been able to walk through Roy shots like it was a day in the park.

Look at Roy against James Toney who came forward during that fight when he could, WHo has had a better chin then James Toney? Probably nobody. Roy couldn't hurt him either, but Roy got to James a few times with body shots, he was able to stay away from Toney all night long, and the few punches James did land, Roy took them quite easily.

Hagler is a great fighter, but Roy is too fast, and too big for him. Roy is a way better fighter on his back foot then Hearns ever was, and he was a way bigger guy that hit harder p4p then Leonard, and also quicker at middleweight/SMW then Ray was. Roy was also great against southpaws.

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Listen, T-Bag, I ain't hanging from the 80's nuts, but to say that Roy would make Hagler look silly was a stupid thing to say. Stop judging Hagler on his last 5 fights, unless you want me to judge Jones by the Tarver and Glen Johnson fights.

As for Jones "pure power," what the hell do thing Hagler would have done with Tate, Sosa, Reggie Johnson, and Malinga, and old ass-Pazienza? Or the series of bums he fought for the first 20 fights.

I've repeatedly said that that I would pick Roy on points in this one. Hagler, even with is his being the smaller man, in his prime, is better than anybody Jones ever fought, James Toney included, and I'm about as a big a James Toney fan as you will find. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Quit hagging from Roy's nuts? How about you quit hanging from the 80's nuts, and get a functioning brian while you are at at. Leonard didn't admit honestly that he couldn't beat Hagler, only in jest, or else he would have never taken the bout. He had no reason to go back into the ring. Anybody that says Ray just stole the last 30 seocnds is stupid and didn't watch the fight. Stop listening to commentators and watch fights for yourself.

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;D

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Don't let the fact that Hagler is old school cloud YOUR judgement. Hagler from 78-82. Again, think Roy wins this one by decision, probably 8 rounds to 4.

I don't think stylistically Jones is a nightmare for Hagler. Jones is a stylistic nightmare for a counterpuncher like James Toney or a one-dimensional slugger like Thomas Tate. Or a plodding, slow pressure fighter like Clinton Woods. I think people are saying that based on the Leonard fight, and by that point, Hagler's legs were old and he had become far more one dimensional.

Jones never fought anybody like Hagler in his prime, the combo of power, speed, determination, and skill. The closest, in terms of talent he got was probably Toney, and Toney was much different style than Hagler.

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Hagler had crap speed, he was average in the speed department at best, also what about a young HOpkins? He was determiend, had power, the chin, etc, etc and ROy beat him comfortably with one hand. Reggie Johnson great chin, good speed, southpaw, determined, look what Roy did to him. McCallum great chin, good pressure fighter, great body work, look at that fihgt.

You are arguing Hagler had old legs against a guy who hadn't foughten in 3 years and was fighting 13 pounds above his natural weight class? Whats your excuse for him against Duran?

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Quit hagging from Roy's nuts? How about you quit hanging from the 80's nuts, and get a functioning brian while you are at at. Leonard didn't admit honestly that he couldn't beat Hagler, only in jest, or else he would have never taken the bout. He had no reason to go back into the ring. Anybody that says Ray just stole the last 30 seocnds is stupid and didn't watch the fight. Stop listening to commentators and watch fights for yourself.

As for Hearns having more power then Jones I am calling bullshit right now. P4P at 147 Hearns did, but not in literal comparison, first of all Emanuel Steward said that Hearns didn't actually hit that hard, but he was sneaky with that right hand. Whereas Roy had pure power, he ko'ed 21 of his first 22 opponents, he stopped a lot of tough guys who had never been stopped before Melinga. He landed maybe the hardest shot ever landed below cruiserweight with that right hand to the ribs against Hill... Hill had never been stopped before that punch rocked him. Look what Roy did to Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa... the list goes on.

Roy may have not had the best competition of any fighter ever, but he took out plenty of guys that had among the best chins in the sport when they fought, all the way up to 175. Hell, Roy went up to heavyweight and stunned Ruiz with one of his right hands. I am not even saying that he would have knocked out Hagler, but Hagler wouldn't have been able to walk through Roy shots like it was a day in the park.

Look at Roy against James Toney who came forward during that fight when he could, WHo has had a better chin then James Toney? Probably nobody. Roy couldn't hurt him either, but Roy got to James a few times with body shots, he was able to stay away from Toney all night long, and the few punches James did land, Roy took them quite easily.

Hagler is a great fighter, but Roy is too fast, and too big for him. Roy is a way better fighter on his back foot then Hearns ever was, and he was a way bigger guy that hit harder p4p then Leonard, and also quicker at middleweight/SMW then Ray was. Roy was also great against southpaws.

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Listen, T-Bag, I ain't hanging from the 80's nuts, but to say that Roy would make Hagler look silly was a stupid thing to say. Stop judging Hagler on his last 5 fights, unless you want me to judge Jones by the Tarver and Glen Johnson fights.

As for Jones "pure power," what the hell do thing Hagler would have done with Tate, Sosa, Reggie Johnson, and Malinga, and old ass-Pazienza? Or the series of bums he fought for the first 20 fights.

I've repeatedly said that that I would pick Roy on points in this one. Hagler, even with is his being the smaller man, in his prime, is better than anybody Jones ever fought, James Toney included, and I'm about as a big a James Toney fan as you will find. Deal with it.

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T-bag? Good one... idiot. What would have Hagler done against Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa, Malinga? Certianly nothing as impressive as Roy did. Malinga had lost a Split decidion to Chris EUbanks then went 10 rounds against the feared NIgel Benn, and Roy one punched him in the 6th round.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Also people that are arguing that Hagler was a different fighter when he was younger. Well that would have helped Roy out more, Hagler liked to box a lot more in his prime when his only chance against Roy would be to come with relentless pressure, however Hagler was still a counter puncher in his prime even when coming forward, and there is no way you could fight that way against Roy. Roy was way too fast for Hagler to fight in that style. Hagler tried to fighting that way against Duran and that made that fight a lot closer than it could have been because Duran was faster, and a better boxer then Hagler, it cost Hagler against Leonard early when he tried to outbox him.

James Toney was a great fighter at coming forward and countering, in a fight much closer, but similar to Chavez-Taylor, James Toney had been landing hard right hands against the supremely gifted Michael Nunn all night, until he turned it up late, and Nunn succumbed to the pressure and Toney's power. Toney came forward trying to let Roy lead, and Roy was too fast for TOney to react.

Now you can compare overall, all you want of Hagler to TOney, but Toney is way up there in terms of the best middleweights ever, easily in the top 15 or 20(this being the deepest divison ever IMO). Anyways TOney regardless of his lower rank was faster, had a same caliber of chin, and was a better counter punch then Hagler. He was also harder to hit, but Roy was too elusive, too good at moving, too good at countering. Nobody could counter like ROy and it catches everyone off guard.

Thats why I think Hearns has a better chance against Roy because he would use the range which Roy showed that he was less comfortable in dealing with when he faced Hopkins and Griffin.

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Chinny-ass Hearns would stand a better chance against Roy? Who has been beating you with retard stick lately T-Bag? Against Roy, with all the power you are touting? You can't have it both ways. By the case you are making, Jones should be able to land the KO blow against Hearns. We all know it can be done. Leonard did it. Barkley did it. Doesn't Jones have better power than Barkley, or at least enough more speed and skill to insure he could a finishing blow on Hearns? I'm the one who needs to get a functioning brain? Please.


Toney was a top 15 middleweight ever? Toney may be a top 20 MW, but Hagler is top 10 certainly, and possibly top 5.

Jones KO's Hearns, and wins a hard fought, competitive decision against Hagler. That's really the end of it. That's not 80's nut-hugging, it just realistic.

Reggie Johnson beat Chris Collins, Lost a split decision to James TOney, first guy to beat Lamar Parks, lost a split decision to Tarver way later, He lost a close fight to John David Jackson, and two fights that could have gone either way against Jorge Casto who was an excellent fighter. Reggie Johnson wouldn't have been a walk in the park for Hagler. Also who did Hagler fight before he faced the welterweight greats, or besides them? Roy would have destroyed Mugabi, he would have destroyed anybody on Hagler's list besides Leonard and Hearns, and maybe Duran.

As for Roy making Hagler look silly, its not personal, he wouldn't make Hearns or Leonard look silly, but Hagler he would have. If a guy is countering you cleanly, making you miss badly, and completely controlling the fight then that is making you look silly. I mean when Roy was at his best he was making James Toney look around for him in the ring becauser he lost him, he was toying with Mike McCallum, old or not nobody else could have done that. He didn't even have to go to the body or throw a jab, he faced decent competition and he walked through it all. Also only a dumb ass would compare Hagler at the end of his career to Roy at the end of his, When did Hagler go up in weight? When was he 36? WHen he did he move up to heavyweight? Roy started his career lower then Hagler and fought a guy like 70 pounds above where he started his career.