want to test a little theory

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

I don;t blame him for avoiding Pryor. That guy had the instinct to kill.

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With a trainer who'd be willing to help him. ;)

I would love to see someone try to be little Henry Armstrong. ;D

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I would love to see someone try to be little Henry Armstrong. ;D

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Well, i'll try... about half of Henrys opponents has a DOUBLE DIGIT LOSING RECORD.. hehe at least i try.. He lost about 10% of his fight.. ;D

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

ok guys, on this forum and on other sites i see a lot of people descrediting certain fighters resumes and credentials, for example iv seen many people claim that Hopkins resume consists of blown up welters or that calzaghes best wins are over old and/or over hyped fighters

basically i think that its possible to discredit to any fighters reputation and resume in one way or another with maybe the exception of a couple like SRR and maybe Ali ,

so to test this i want people to post a fighter who they think is an ATG and has a brilliant resume , and then to see if anyone else can give logical thought out reasons as to why they are not so great

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Well i could downgrade Muhammad Ali easily i thought he lost to Jimmy Young, Ken Norton x2, Earnie Shavers, draw with Doug Jones. Infact you could make an argument that Ali could have 10 losses on his record then would people consider him so great ? no doubt Ali done alot for the sport and was a very smart fighter with alot of strong attributes but i think he is overrated. And he also did struggle with alot of lesser fighters aswell far too many times IMO.

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Why did I just know youd go straight for Ali?
Oh yeah,you hate Ali
Truly overated,Im watching Lacy/Wiggins right now,Lacy is rubbish

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Alright my favorite fighter is and always will be Sugar Ray Leonard. Alright here are the highlights to his career he was a champion WW, LMW, MW, SMW and LHW and also his best wins as Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler he was the top dog out of all of them only one beat them all. He was also in one of the toughest eras of boxing so go ahead and pick away.

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ok all ican really say to that is

1) fought a very stupid fight in terms of tactics in the first duran fight
2) Hagler win is very much debatable along with the draw in the second Hearns fight
3) went on too long and ruined his own legacy
4) seemed to shy away from a mega fight with Aaron Pryor

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He underestimated Duran fair enough. I feel Hagler result was accurate although I agree Hearns 2 was a bit off. I don't think he ruined his legacy at all with his 2 late defeats it's very rare a boxer doesn't go on too long including Ali and SRR. I didn't know there was much serious talk of a fight with Pryor and if there was what weight was it going to be at? If it was at WW I think SRL takes a hard fought but clear decision. If they could have made it a 140lbs fight then I think Leonard may have been weight drained and Pryor would take a decision.

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Originally Posted by antimoron

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I would love to see someone try to be little Henry Armstrong. ;D

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Well, i'll try... about half of Henrys opponents has a DOUBLE DIGIT LOSING RECORD.. hehe at least i try.. He lost about 10% of his fight.. ;D

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Which meant ABSOLUTELY NOTHING back then....

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

ok guys, on this forum and on other sites i see a lot of people descrediting certain fighters resumes and credentials, for example iv seen many people claim that Hopkins resume consists of blown up welters or that calzaghes best wins are over old and/or over hyped fighters

basically i think that its possible to discredit to any fighters reputation and resume in one way or another with maybe the exception of a couple like SRR and maybe Ali ,

so to test this i want people to post a fighter who they think is an ATG and has a brilliant resume , and then to see if anyone else can give logical thought out reasons as to why they are not so great

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Well i could downgrade Muhammad Ali easily i thought he lost to Jimmy Young, Ken Norton x2, Earnie Shavers, draw with Doug Jones. Infact you could make an argument that Ali could have 10 losses on his record then would people consider him so great ? no doubt Ali done alot for the sport and was a very smart fighter with alot of strong attributes but i think he is overrated. And he also did struggle with alot of lesser fighters aswell far too many times IMO.

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Why did I just know youd go straight for Ali?
Oh yeah,you hate Ali
Truly overated,Im watching Lacy/Wiggins right now,Lacy is rubbish

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Does it matter who i pick ? if you can't handle your favorite fighter taking criticism then don't go on threads like this end of. The whole point of this thread is to give out logical responses, and try and say why an ATG fighter wasn't as great as people thought, i gave out a logical answer which was the whole point of this thread, just like POB done the same with Roy Jones who is one of my favorite fighters, but i didn't pick him up on it did i ? because thats the whole point of this thread.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by ICB

Well i could downgrade Muhammad Ali easily i thought he lost to Jimmy Young, Ken Norton x2, Earnie Shavers, draw with Doug Jones. Infact you could make an argument that Ali could have 10 losses on his record then would people consider him so great ? no doubt Ali done alot for the sport and was a very smart fighter with alot of strong attributes but i think he is overrated. And he also did struggle with alot of lesser fighters aswell far too many times IMO.

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Why did I just know youd go straight for Ali?
Oh yeah,you hate Ali
Truly overated,Im watching Lacy/Wiggins right now,Lacy is rubbish

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Does it matter who i pick ? if you can't handle your favorite fighter taking criticism then don't go on threads like this end of. The whole point of this thread is to give out logical responses, and try and say why an ATG fighter wasn't as great as people thought, i gave out a logical answer which was the whole point of this thread, just like POB done the same with Roy Jones who is one of my favorite fighters, but i didn't pick him up on it did i ? because thats the whole point of this thread.

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I knew youd go for Ali first and foremost
Roy Jones is slightly over rated,but its not %100 his fault,the divisions he fought in were rubbish

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Here we go. I'll trash my favorite fighter. Duran dominated lightweight in weak era, and he padded his record with bums. Other than the first Ray Leonard fight, he came up short in every other fight against top competition - Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Iran Barkley was overrated. The only good fighter he ever beat was Hearns, so that win doesn't mean much. He fought way past his prime and ruined his legacy losing to guys like Paz and Lawlor.

This is a fun game!

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I wouldn't say Duran wasn't great, but definitely overrated. As in not deserving of being ranked around #5 p4p all time by so many pundits and sportswriters. I just can't see it. There are not that many big name scalps on his record, he wasn't all that successful in moving through the divisions ( not one successful title defense in a division other than lightweight) . Sure he dominated lightweight, but there are many fighters who have dominated divisions who are never ranked anywhere near him.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

I don;t blame him for avoiding Pryor. That guy had the instinct to kill.

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With a trainer who'd be willing to help him. ;)

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I don't like Pryor's chances against the welterweights like Leonard, Hearns, Duran, etc..

He was a terrific junior welterweight, and probably could've won the LW title too, but fighting bigger guys as great as SRL, Tommy, Duran.....I don't think Pryor beats any of them.

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Originally Posted by Thread Stealer

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

I don;t blame him for avoiding Pryor. That guy had the instinct to kill.

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With a trainer who'd be willing to help him. ;)

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I don't like Pryor's chances against the welterweights like Leonard, Hearns, Duran, etc..

He was a terrific junior welterweight, and probably could've won the LW title too, but fighting bigger guys as great as SRL, Tommy, Duran.....I don't think Pryor beats any of them.

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I agree, shit! I don't even think he would have beaten Alexis if not for the black bottle.

how would u explain Alexis getting ktfo in the rematch thne ?

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

how would u explain Alexis getting ktfo in the rematch thne ?

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Alexis Arguello was a shot fighter by that time, too many ring wars plus he had moved way above his best weight.

haha i know , i just love to wind Mick up thats all :D

Winky Wright he is known for his wins over Shane Mosley who fought him at 154 which was 19 pounds over his prime weight. He win over Trinadad who was already destroyed by Hopkins and it was 13 pounds over his prime weight. Then he lost to Vargas was close but i thoughtVargas did enough for the win but his fans complain and he draws with Taylor which was close and he gave up rounds as well so his fault and his fans complain. To me his record does not speak to me as pound for pound he never won a title over 154 and he still ranked so highly by some people i dont get it at all i think that he gets to much credit for his wins over past prime fighters.