Re: < Paul Williams TOP 10 P4P? You've gotta be fooken kidding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I must disagree. Paul beat Margarito. Convincingly is very debatable and since that victory he lost to Quintana. The second time around, he beat Quintana convincingly, but Quintana is nowhere near a p4p fighter. He then moved up to middleweight and beat a glorified club fighter.
Vic just beat Mijares who was #7 on the p4p list (I think). By beating Mijares, he unified the IBF, WBO, and WBA belts in the 115 pound class. Vic deserves it more than Paul.
BCD has beat Antonio Tarver, Glen Johnson, and Tomaz Adamek (who is fighting for the CRUISER weight championship in December. BCD deserves it more than Paul.
Now, I don't understand why Cotto is still in the Ring list. Nothing against Cotto, I am a big fan, but Hatton's loss to PBF knocked him off the list and Pavlik's loss to Hopkins knocked him off the list - why didn't Cotto's loss to Margarito knock him off the list?
Because those guys (Hatton, Pavlik) got totally thrashed in one-sided affairs.. whereas Cotto was always in the fight with Margarito (he was clearly the more skillful fighter).
If Cotto rematched Margarito there's a chance he could win with slight alterations. NO-one could ever see Pavlik beating Hopkins and Ricky beating Floyd after their fights.
Cotto looks a much more talented fighter than either of those two as well. I think he deserves to be top 10 P4P.
First, I don't think you keep a person in the top ten p4p because of how well they looked
losing a fight unless you last 12 rounds and fight competitively and end up losing a very close decision to a top ten p4p fighter. I don't really know what is redeemable about getting knocked the f*ck out, losing by submission, or losing every single round.
Second, Cotto didn't look good losing. He submitted to Margarito; Margarito looked as if he hadn't even been in a fight afterward (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3UMnJqHba8 ). That's an argument for another day, however.
Third, PBF and Bhop were each in the top ten p4p when they fought; Margarito wasn't in the top ten when he fought Cotto. PBF was ranked #1 p4p when he beat Ricky. Bhop was ranked #5 when he beat Pavlik. Ricky and Pavlik lost to top ten p4p fighters and Cotto lost to an unranked fighter.
The point is there are fighters more deserving of top ten p4p status than Cotto or Pwill. As I mentioned earlier, two that come to mind are Vic and BCD.
What Tony did to Cotto is just a testament to what he really has inside him...No one will ever mistake Tony for a master boxer...But his ability to take a punch, give a punch and just plain out fight is at times amazing.....
Doesn't matter how much more skill you have then the other guy technically...if you can not avoid him...and can not hurt him...you can not beat him.....
Re: < Paul Williams TOP 10 P4P? You've gotta be fooken kidding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I must disagree. Paul beat Margarito. Convincingly is very debatable and since that victory he lost to Quintana. The second time around, he beat Quintana convincingly, but Quintana is nowhere near a p4p fighter. He then moved up to middleweight and beat a glorified club fighter.
Vic just beat Mijares who was #7 on the p4p list (I think). By beating Mijares, he unified the IBF, WBO, and WBA belts in the 115 pound class. Vic deserves it more than Paul.
BCD has beat Antonio Tarver, Glen Johnson, and Tomaz Adamek (who is fighting for the CRUISER weight championship in December. BCD deserves it more than Paul.
Now, I don't understand why Cotto is still in the Ring list. Nothing against Cotto, I am a big fan, but Hatton's loss to PBF knocked him off the list and Pavlik's loss to Hopkins knocked him off the list - why didn't Cotto's loss to Margarito knock him off the list?
Because those guys (Hatton, Pavlik) got totally thrashed in one-sided affairs.. whereas Cotto was always in the fight with Margarito (he was clearly the more skillful fighter).
If Cotto rematched Margarito there's a chance he could win with slight alterations. NO-one could ever see Pavlik beating Hopkins and Ricky beating Floyd after their fights.
Cotto looks a much more talented fighter than either of those two as well. I think he deserves to be top 10 P4P.
First, I don't think you keep a person in the top ten p4p because of how well they looked
losing a fight unless you last 12 rounds and fight competitively and end up losing a very close decision to a top ten p4p fighter. I don't really know what is redeemable about getting knocked the f*ck out, losing by submission, or losing every single round.
Second, Cotto didn't look good losing. He submitted to Margarito; Margarito looked as if he hadn't even been in a fight afterward (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3UMnJqHba8 ). That's an argument for another day, however.
Third, PBF and Bhop were each in the top ten p4p when they fought; Margarito wasn't in the top ten when he fought Cotto. PBF was ranked #1 p4p when he beat Ricky. Bhop was ranked #5 when he beat Pavlik. Ricky and Pavlik lost to top ten p4p fighters and Cotto lost to an unranked fighter.
The point is there are fighters more deserving of top ten p4p status than Cotto or Pwill. As I mentioned earlier, two that come to mind are Vic and BCD.
First off.. fighters enter the top 10 P4P (using The Ring) without BEATING P4P fighters all the time. Examples in recent times - Pavlik, Calderon, Mirjares, Vasquez, Rafael Marquez and now currently Williams has sneaked on the list. Clearly.. you can become top 10 WITHOUT beating a top 10 fighter. SO.. losing to a fighter ranked outside the ten shouldn't really be a factor - depending on the performance and circumstances. Especially when that fighter is then put straight into the top 10 (Margarito-Cotto case).
Imagine the P4P in 1985 - Hagler-Hearns? Would Hearns be booted out for losing a GREAT three round fight?
In the first half Cotto was fighting well against Margarito. Unfortunately, for him, Margarito was too strong physically and mentally which overrode his apparent skill advantage. Cotto still left his mark on the contest. It was a great fight.
Finally.. there's no right or wrong with P4P. If you believe there's currently guys that are more deserving than, and would beat in a mythical match, Cotto/Williams - no one can PROVE you wrong. ;)
Re: < Paul Williams TOP 10 P4P? You've gotta be fooken kidding...
p4p rankings are a load of nonsense anyway but ofcourse Paul should be top 10. If you rate cotto and Margarito then for consistancys sake you have to rate Paul
Re: < Paul Williams TOP 10 P4P? You've gotta be fooken kidding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
Margarito wasn't top ten P4P when he fought Williams.
You guys realize leftylee pretty much shut down the;
PW has a win over Margarito theory when he posted the above?
You can't count the win over Margarito as a win over a P4P fighter because Margarito was NOT a p4p fighter when they fought.
I would def. have Vic or Haye at #10.
Vics captured titles on 2 div. and just beat a P4P fighter.
Haye was the universally recognized unified champ at cruiser.
They have both fought better opposition then PW.
Re: < Paul Williams TOP 10 P4P? You've gotta be fooken kidding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Apparently he's been at #10 for 3 weeks now...
WTF? Seriously?
I hope this is a typo on the site...
Do ANY of these names mean ANYTHING to whomever votes on the rankings?
Hozumi Hasegawa
David Haye
Vic Darchinyan
BCD
Nonito Donaire
I agree 100%
Paul Williams hasn't got the resume to be in the top 10 yet.
I feel Dawson, Haye and Vic are more deserving of the spot.
