Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

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02-09-2009, 12:06 PM
rjj tszyu

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr140

Well i think Leonard had the chin to with stand Jones punching but also he had the power to land the question i had is if he landed often enough would he have the power to knock Jones out that was my question was how good do you think Leonards power was at the weight of mw.

I think Jones' chin at MW would stand up to Leonards power no problem. Jones' power and speed though would give leonard hell IMO.
02-09-2009, 01:53 PM
Wayne

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Not really disagreeing with you, but I want to play Devil's advocate here. Ray Leonard had been retired before he fought Hagler and had last fought above the welterweight limit. Did he really deserve a shot at Hagler above the guy who had been the no. 1 contender? Of course the fight should have been made because they were both legends, but Ray Leonard wasn't really a legit no. 1.
02-09-2009, 09:39 PM
THE THIRD MAN

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

IMO Hagler clearly beats Monzon who great smaller guys as well, but not as great Duran or Leonard or Hearns.

IMO Bernard is the best middleweight ever that I've seen and I think he beats either Monzon or Hagler because he is too crafty while still having all of Hagler's mean streak.

Imagine how good Monzon would have been had he trained! He only trained 1 month before a fight and only did roadwork and went half pace in sparring, he drank heavily, chain smoked and f***ed anything with a skirt on. He fought with a bullet lodged in his shoulder for the last 5 years of his career courtesy of his enraged wife at the time. Benvenuti was no bum and Monzon destroyed him twice, he beat the legend Emile Griffith and long time Welterweight king Jose Napoles. 14 title defenses and unbeaten in his last 13 years as a pro, i don't see Hagler beating him clearly.
Someone has to make a movie on Monzon's life, the guy was incredible in the ring, but outside the ring he was out of control.
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
kingfrnk

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr140

Well i think Leonard had the chin to with stand Jones punching but also he had the power to land the question i had is if he landed often enough would he have the power to knock Jones out that was my question was how good do you think Leonards power was at the weight of mw.

I think Jones' chin at MW would stand up to Leonards power no problem. Jones' power and speed though would give leonard hell IMO.

Im a huge SRL fan and I agree he would give him hell especially at MW. SRL at his best IMO was at welter.
02-09-2009, 11:38 PM
rjj tszyu

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

IMO Hagler clearly beats Monzon who great smaller guys as well, but not as great Duran or Leonard or Hearns.

IMO Bernard is the best middleweight ever that I've seen and I think he beats either Monzon or Hagler because he is too crafty while still having all of Hagler's mean streak.

Imagine how good Monzon would have been had he trained! He only trained 1 month before a fight and only did roadwork and went half pace in sparring, he drank heavily, chain smoked and f***ed anything with a skirt on. He fought with a bullet lodged in his shoulder for the last 5 years of his career courtesy of his enraged wife at the time. Benvenuti was no bum and Monzon destroyed him twice, he beat the legend Emile Griffith and long time Welterweight king Jose Napoles. 14 title defenses and unbeaten in his last 13 years as a pro, i don't see Hagler beating him clearly.
Someone has to make a movie on Monzon's life, the guy was incredible in the ring, but outside the ring he was out of control.

So he beat the great Griffith? He wasn't so great at MW. Rubin Carter KO'd him in round 1 and he wasn't as great as some people and Hollywood make out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr140

Well i think Leonard had the chin to with stand Jones punching but also he had the power to land the question i had is if he landed often enough would he have the power to knock Jones out that was my question was how good do you think Leonards power was at the weight of mw.

I think Jones' chin at MW would stand up to Leonards power no problem. Jones' power and speed though would give leonard hell IMO.

Im a huge SRL fan and I agree he would give him hell especially at MW. SRL at his best IMO was at welter.

I totally agree with you on that. In fact barring SRR I think that SRL is the greatest welterweight of all time and I know some people will try to give me hell for that comment!
02-09-2009, 11:51 PM
kingfrnk

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

IMO Hagler clearly beats Monzon who great smaller guys as well, but not as great Duran or Leonard or Hearns.

IMO Bernard is the best middleweight ever that I've seen and I think he beats either Monzon or Hagler because he is too crafty while still having all of Hagler's mean streak.

Imagine how good Monzon would have been had he trained! He only trained 1 month before a fight and only did roadwork and went half pace in sparring, he drank heavily, chain smoked and f***ed anything with a skirt on. He fought with a bullet lodged in his shoulder for the last 5 years of his career courtesy of his enraged wife at the time. Benvenuti was no bum and Monzon destroyed him twice, he beat the legend Emile Griffith and long time Welterweight king Jose Napoles. 14 title defenses and unbeaten in his last 13 years as a pro, i don't see Hagler beating him clearly.
Someone has to make a movie on Monzon's life, the guy was incredible in the ring, but outside the ring he was out of control.

So he beat the great Griffith? He wasn't so great at MW. Rubin Carter KO'd him in round 1 and he wasn't as great as some people and Hollywood make out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

I think Jones' chin at MW would stand up to Leonards power no problem. Jones' power and speed though would give leonard hell IMO.

Im a huge SRL fan and I agree he would give him hell especially at MW. SRL at his best IMO was at welter.

I totally agree with you on that. In fact barring SRR I think that SRL is the greatest welterweight of all time and I know some people will try to give me hell for that comment!

I havent really seen any fights on SRR at welter so I myself am not so sure either. But i do think that Leonard definatly fought the better opposition at welter though.
02-09-2009, 11:57 PM
rjj tszyu

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Imagine how good Monzon would have been had he trained! He only trained 1 month before a fight and only did roadwork and went half pace in sparring, he drank heavily, chain smoked and f***ed anything with a skirt on. He fought with a bullet lodged in his shoulder for the last 5 years of his career courtesy of his enraged wife at the time. Benvenuti was no bum and Monzon destroyed him twice, he beat the legend Emile Griffith and long time Welterweight king Jose Napoles. 14 title defenses and unbeaten in his last 13 years as a pro, i don't see Hagler beating him clearly.
Someone has to make a movie on Monzon's life, the guy was incredible in the ring, but outside the ring he was out of control.

So he beat the great Griffith? He wasn't so great at MW. Rubin Carter KO'd him in round 1 and he wasn't as great as some people and Hollywood make out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Im a huge SRL fan and I agree he would give him hell especially at MW. SRL at his best IMO was at welter.

I totally agree with you on that. In fact barring SRR I think that SRL is the greatest welterweight of all time and I know some people will try to give me hell for that comment!

I havent really seen any fights on SRR at welter so I myself am not so sure either. But i do think that Leonard definatly fought the better opposition at welter though.

Sorry mate he is second to Robinson to me!
02-10-2009, 04:26 PM
Jimanuel Boogustus

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Its interesting because we've seen two versions of Hopkins. 1 version was ferocious like Hagler, with better defense, but less power. Then the second version was an old slickster who knew how to do anything to win a fight, but more importantly nobody ever really nullified Hagler's offensive arsenal, while I don't think I've seen anybody including RJJ, Pavlik, Trinidad, De La Hoya, and Calzaghe be effective offensively against Hopkins.

Anyways sorry for bringing him up, Its just I would have loved to have seen them battle out the middleweights supremecy.

No need to appologise mate. Your so right about the evident clash of styles.
02-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Master

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

SRR was at his best at Welter, so was SRL.

Hagler probably was the greatest middleweight.
02-10-2009, 06:32 PM
Rocky Balboa

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Dare I introduce Floyd Mayweather Jr into the best welterweight? I have to. I think he would beat SRL but Im not sure about SRR. What do you guys think?
02-10-2009, 06:39 PM
BIG H

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Balboa

Dare I introduce Floyd Mayweather Jr into the best welterweight? I have to. I think he would beat SRL but Im not sure about SRR. What do you guys think?

He only really had 3 fights at WW, so it's difficult to rate him in that division :-\
02-10-2009, 06:41 PM
X

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Hagler would have chewed B-Hop up and spat out the pieces. Hopkins was a very very good fighter indeed, but he would certainly not have intimidated Marvin with all his trash talk.

He would not have been able to scuffle his way to victory, which would be his best chance of nicking the decision.

Hagler was a great great fighter indeed.
02-10-2009, 09:13 PM
RozzySean

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

So he beat the great Griffith? He wasn't so great at MW. Rubin Carter KO'd him in round 1 and he wasn't as great as some people and Hollywood make out.

I totally agree with you on that. In fact barring SRR I think that SRL is the greatest welterweight of all time and I know some people will try to give me hell for that comment!

I havent really seen any fights on SRR at welter so I myself am not so sure either. But i do think that Leonard definatly fought the better opposition at welter though.

Sorry mate he is second to Robinson to me!

It's tough to say because there is so little tape of Robinson at WW. I'm inclined to believe Robinson was the best to every put on gloves at 147.
02-10-2009, 09:36 PM
RozzySean

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Balboa

Dare I introduce Floyd Mayweather Jr into the best welterweight? I have to. I think he would beat SRL but Im not sure about SRR. What do you guys think?

You can't because he never proved against enough top quality WW's. I think Leonard beats Floyd at WW, and even if not, Floyd never beat a true great, natural WW in his prime. Leonard beat Benitez, Duran, and Hearns. That tops Oscar, Judah, and Baldomir. Hatton I don't count as a WW because he's really a LWW.

It's like calling Roy Jones the best MW. He just didn't stay there long enough.
02-11-2009, 12:23 AM
rjj tszyu

Re: Why Marvin Hagler Is The Best Middleweight Of All Time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RozzySean

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Balboa

Dare I introduce Floyd Mayweather Jr into the best welterweight? I have to. I think he would beat SRL but Im not sure about SRR. What do you guys think?

You can't because he never proved against enough top quality WW's. I think Leonard beats Floyd at WW, and even if not, Floyd never beat a true great, natural WW in his prime. Leonard beat Benitez, Duran, and Hearns. That tops Oscar, Judah, and Baldomir. Hatton I don't count as a WW because he's really a LWW.

It's like calling Roy Jones the best MW. He just didn't stay there long enough.

Well for me they can be called the best at their respected divisions, just not the greatest as for that you need longevity!

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