I think Tyson would of made a mess of him.He was calling out Douglas...but his father thought better of it if I remember correctly?Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebhoy
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I think Tyson would of made a mess of him.He was calling out Douglas...but his father thought better of it if I remember correctly?Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebhoy
The version of Roy Jones at 168 was the most naturally gifted athlete to ever step in the ring...I think during that short period of time in a P4P style basis he was the greatest fighter I ever seen,,,Greatest of all time no...We can not base a fighter on that one short period of time in their career and say they were the best....Just like you can not take a great fighter who does not know when to quit and downgrade his achievements due to his shortcomings as a shot fighter....Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
If Jones spent as much time as a SMW and fought more quality opponents during that time the arguement would be strong but there are too many chinks in his career that deter his being even in the top 10 of all time
Roy Jones dodged a lot of good fighters IMO to try to keep his undefeated record. There were plenty of good fighters out there that he never fought. He was very talented yeah, but the greatest ever? Not even close.
I think Jones jr has damaged his legacy somewhat considerably in recent years and it's alright saying what a great fighter he was 8-10 years ago the fact is he was KTFO by Tarver and soundly beaten another time, KTFO by Glen Johnson and soundly beaten by Calzaghe all in the last 5 years!
Is he an ATG? the answer is yes he is, was he the greatest ever? No he isn't! I don't even think he is the best LHW ever, would he have beaten Bob Foster? I say Bob lands a big one on Roy and it's lights out!
Jones Jr like Oscar drops down a few rungs on the ATG list after some poor performances later in their careers.
Michelzhe whatever his name is I havent heard of him but on his record he lost to someone Roy beat every round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
James Toney beat Nunn. I agree he should have fought Eubank and Nigel Benn, I only saw Eubank on youtube in a few Kos and on classic against Carl Thompson the guy that beat david haye.
No one does take credit away from eubank or benns career, but they didn't fight James Toney or Michael Nunn either. As far as I know their biggest fights were against each other. I'm probably wrong but thats about all I see on their lists that their biggest fights were against each other so why don't they get any flack for not fighting James Toney? Roy Jones did that and won easily. Were Benn and Eubank truly that much better then Toney?
Also why does a fighter have to be tested hard to be considered an all time great? People throw around that he never had an opponent that gave him a rough time. But doesn't that only add to his dominance? Doesn't it make a fighter more dominant to say he was never tested when people like Hopkins, James Toney and Montell Griffin are on his record?
If RJJ retired after he beat Ruiz I thinbk a lot of people would have him at least top 10 p4p all time. Same as with Tyson people's judgements are tainted by what happend after his prime
No he is not the greatest ever! And I've commented on recycled threads regarding Roy before. Roy to me was a Lamborghini driven at 50 miles per hour and could have been alot better had he pushed the gas down on his talents and made better career choices.
Some people measure it by that... others by SKILL. Accomplishments are contemporary to what ever era the guy fought inQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaOMG. You've just exposed yourself like a true dillhole. Do you even know what "pound for pound" means? You measure it by accomplishments. And Jones is nowhere near what SRR accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448ha ha. stfu. NO. its my opinion. yes i may be the biggest idiot ever sue me.and yeah ive seen all the guys u just mentioned and i think if a prime roy was around in any of there eras i think he would of been p4p number1Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
So you CAN compare jones to fighters from other eras based on the relative SKILL you think he has in comparison. :rolleyes:
agree with what your saying but the competition you have does play a crucial role also, cause you know how the reacted or would react in different situationsQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBSome people measure it by that... others by SKILL. Accomplishments are contemporary to what ever era the guy fought inQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaOMG. You've just exposed yourself like a true dillhole. Do you even know what "pound for pound" means? You measure it by accomplishments. And Jones is nowhere near what SRR accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
So you CAN compare jones to fighters from other eras based on the relative SKILL you think he has in comparison. :rolleyes:
I get where your comming from without putting words in your mouth .Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
I read it like you originally ment ring skills alone.
He has to be up there near the top you cant deny what he got up to in there that others wouldnt have the guts to even think about doing let alone try for real.
Even against a middle of the road pro most top pros wouldnt place their hands behind their back lean forwards to invite a ko hook shot then move and singly counter punch removing the suckersaid attacker from the fight.
Put Roy 'at his all time best form' in front of any top fighter from any era and he would of given over 95% of them trouble.
He is a bit like Naz was. experimental and ballsy that makes people who want strict boxing to always prevail their long term detractors,its an old sport many hate seeing something untaught working against them.
Not everything works every time in the ring or out of it for that matter.
I love it though; seeing people push the so called limits even if they do get caught out once in while ;). theres alot to learn from their moves if you care to.
Agreed except for the Mike Tyson part ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
RJJ doesn't have the accomplishments to be the GOAT, but if we are talking about P4P mythical match ups at 168, he maybe the best ever at that weightclass. I honestly can't see anyone beating him at 168, i think Michael Nunn may of had the best chance.
Because i feel RJJ did have some trouble against Southpaw's, and Michael Nunn at his peak looked like a P4P number 1 fighter. He had the speed/skills/athletic ability the whole package IMO, experts say he did slap with some of his punches at times, and he didn't have much power. But i think when Michael Nunn stood his groud and planted his feet.
Instead of backing off flurrying in an out, he did have pretty good power, as that showed when he won the first KOTY with his scary one punch KO of the very tough Sumbu Kalambay.
Just for the record, when I said "Same as Tyson" I meant the way that people remember his later failings and not his prime. I didn't mean that Tyson would be in most people's p4p top 10 even if he had retired post Spinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBAgreed except for the Mike Tyson part ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
RJJ doesn't have the accomplishments to be the GOAT, but if we are talking about P4P mythical match ups at 168, he maybe the best ever at that weightclass. I honestly can't see anyone beating him at 168, i think Michael Nunn may of had the best chance.
Because i feel RJJ did have some trouble against Southpaw's, and Michael Nunn at his peak looked like a P4P number 1 fighter. He had the speed/skills/athletic ability the whole package IMO, experts say he did slap with some of his punches at times, and he didn't have much power. But i think when Michael Nunn stood his groud and planted his feet.
Instead of backing off flurrying in an out, he did have pretty good power, as that showed when he won the first KOTY with his scary one punch KO of the very tough Sumbu Kalambay.
Roy Jones Jr. IS the greatest fighter I've ever seen. He fought from Jr. middleweight to Heavyweight.
But in his prime, he was in a class by himself.
Skill level? The sucker had hand speed and that is about all. It is easy to look great with incredible hand speed but when you aren't really taking chances against hardly anyone then you can look incredible. I had Montell Griffin ahead in rounds when Jones cheapshotted him on the floor in their first fight. He chose to get disqualified rather than take a points loss and have to admit someone figured out his game.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448a valid point indeed my friend. for me tho skill wise there was no one better. but yeah i see what u mean. if only roy had as good as competion. or was roy so good that the people he fought looked pedestrian.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesno need to begin the insults, and i agree with Killa, no, although Jones was impressive and should be consider ONE of the greatest fighters ever, he didn't have the level of competition fighters like Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, etc. hadQuote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
I don't know if he is the greatest, but hes one of the greatest.