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So first you say that Mosely wants to fight at 142 (It has nothing to do with getting a paid of course) and then you say that he has to fight at 142 because Pac is the bigger name right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
:rolleyes:
Either way he is getting coaxed past his fighting weight with the promise of a massive Pay Day... Roach knows exactly what he is doing... don't see how even the biggest pac groupie can deny it.
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Originally Posted by AdamGBSo first you say that Mosely wants to fight at 142 (It has nothing to do with getting a paid of course) and then you say that he has to fight at 142 because Pac is the bigger name right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
:rolleyes:
Either way he is getting coaxed past his fighting weight with the promise of a massive Pay Day... Roach knows exactly what he is doing... don't see how even the biggest pac groupie can deny it.
No and no... Fact is it's Roach who wants Mosley to fight PAC at 142 and Mosley said he can't do it... End of story...
My post above didn't refer to any boxer or boxers in particular... It's a general opinion of mine that if a boxer agrees to fight at a certain agreed "catchweight" then of course that boxer believes that he can both make the weight and win the fight...
If the boxer thinks he can't make the weight and/or win the fight then he shouldn't accept the fight...;)
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Mosley can no way make 142.
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerIt's Mosley who's been chasing the Pacquiao fight... PAC's coach said it, he's just protecting his boxer... No need for PAC to fight Mosley at 147... PAC might just wait for the winner of PBF-JMM...Quote:
Originally Posted by blegitYou're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
He mentioned fighting Mosley before the Hatton fight.
If there is no need for Pac to fight him why say it's an option? If it's not an option say there is no way they'll fight not talk up some crap about a stupid 'catchweight'. Another thing if Roach gave a shit about other boxers he wouldn't insist on them dropping weight to fight Pac.
By rabbiting on in the public eye about it he is putting pressure on fighters to sign.
They should stick together and go tell Roach/Pac to screw themselves. If the other big names refuse these conditions Pas gets frozen out at true world level. They need to realise it takes two big names to make a fight legit.
Wanna play hardball? Come sign with Missy. I'll look after a fighter;D
I'm not a Pac man groupie, but to say that he is cherry picking like Mayweather is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Manny is stepping up in weight to fight bigger men. Mayweather makes smaller men step up in weight to fight him and not fighting any of the men who are natural at that weight. That's the difference. Case in point, Manny fought his first fight at 140 against the champion of the division, Hatton, who Mayweather fought at 147.
Manny is choosing who he fights, but that is boxing. And, look at his potential options: Cotto, Mosley, or Mayweather. Most boxing fans have wanted Floyd to fight Cotto or Mosley for at least two years, if not longer. Before the Hatton fight, after the Hatton fight pre-retirement, and before the un-retirement.
What is ridiculous is that Manny may actually fight Cotto before Mayweather does.
its the same thing...Floyd isnt naturally 147 either, he moved up and beat the lineal champs at 147..ricky hatton moved up to challenge floyd for his p4p belt which is what all the smaller fighters are really fighting over, and since floyd is pound for pound the best in the sport anyone that wants to fight him should go to 147...this is like floyd challenging pavlik for the belt then demanding that he meet him at 155...Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI'm not a Pac man groupie, but to say that he is cherry picking like Mayweather is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Manny is stepping up in weight to fight bigger men. Mayweather makes smaller men step up in weight to fight him and not fighting any of the men who are natural at that weight. That's the difference. Case in point, Manny fought his first fight at 140 against the champion of the division, Hatton, who Mayweather fought at 147.
Manny is choosing who he fights, but that is boxing. And, look at his potential options: Cotto, Mosley, or Mayweather. Most boxing fans have wanted Floyd to fight Cotto or Mosley for at least two years, if not longer. Before the Hatton fight, after the Hatton fight pre-retirement, and before the un-retirement.
What is ridiculous is that Manny may actually fight Cotto before Mayweather does.
PACMAN fought oscar who was at 154 at WW...if he can fight a LMW then he can fight WWs its that simple..other than that ,the catch weight crap is just the same as roy jones demanding 100million to fight lennox lewis...just another way to get out of the fight...
and if cotto drops to 140 to fight PACMAN then it will be because arum and cottos people talked him into accepting the high risk/ high reward fight..besides cotto isn as old as PBF or SHANE..esp shane who hasn't been that small in over 10years...cotto might be able to handle the weight loss better than the older two fighters..which is probably why roach demands that cotto drops the most weight out of the three...its the same as pricing yourself out....floyd might consider the catchweight because he's arrongant enough to do it..but shane and cotto would only be doing it for the mega bucks...
Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.
If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.
When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.
So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.
Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.
Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category
He's just starting low. It's negotiating. If they fight it will probably be at 144.
Shane won't take the fight if it's at a weight where he can't be 100% and if he does, then more fool him.
The fighters have to take some responsibility somewhere down the line.
yeah and my point is that even if they have doubts over making the weight or performing well at it, the millions of dollars that are on the table are enough to make them reconsider... Roach knows this which is why he's trying to talk these guys down so Pac can look good against another weight drained Marquee name...Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBSo first you say that Mosely wants to fight at 142 (It has nothing to do with getting a paid of course) and then you say that he has to fight at 142 because Pac is the bigger name right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
:rolleyes:
Either way he is getting coaxed past his fighting weight with the promise of a massive Pay Day... Roach knows exactly what he is doing... don't see how even the biggest pac groupie can deny it.
No and no... Fact is it's Roach who wants Mosley to fight PAC at 142 and Mosley said he can't do it... End of story...
My post above didn't refer to any boxer or boxers in particular... It's a general opinion of mine that if a boxer agrees to fight at a certain agreed "catchweight" then of course that boxer believes that he can both make the weight and win the fight...
If the boxer thinks he can't make the weight and/or win the fight then he shouldn't accept the fight...;)
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If Roach is so confident in Pac's ability against these bigger fighters he should be letting them fight at their weight... so they won't fuck about.
Fight against 147 pound fighters or fight against 140 pound fighters... either way just shut your face and do it properly.
Exactly JT... you don't see PBF dragging ODLH down a weight class or even knocking a few pounds off 154 and having a catchweight.
FLoyd wasn't big enough to get to 154... he knew he was going to come in at 149-150 but he let oscar fight at his weight anyway.
One things for sure: Oscar didn't have to rehydrate using an IV line against Floyd... shame he did against Pacquio.
What! People were saying Pacquiao is too small to fight at 147? Hell they were saying that he was too small for 140.
or maybe jumping up to welterweight is too big of a jump and Roach knows it. maybe he should stick with fighting the junior welterweight and lightweight fighters like Floyd, but do it at 140 and 135.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthan if he wants a catch weight he should drop all this 7 weight class champion bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
Response is numberedQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherits the same thing...(1) Floyd isnt naturally 147 either, he moved up and beat the lineal champs at 147..Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI'm not a Pac man groupie, but to say that he is cherry picking like Mayweather is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Manny is stepping up in weight to fight bigger men. Mayweather makes smaller men step up in weight to fight him and not fighting any of the men who are natural at that weight. That's the difference. Case in point, Manny fought his first fight at 140 against the champion of the division, Hatton, who Mayweather fought at 147.
Manny is choosing who he fights, but that is boxing. And, look at his potential options: Cotto, Mosley, or Mayweather. Most boxing fans have wanted Floyd to fight Cotto or Mosley for at least two years, if not longer. Before the Hatton fight, after the Hatton fight pre-retirement, and before the un-retirement.
What is ridiculous is that Manny may actually fight Cotto before Mayweather does.
(2) ricky hatton moved up to challenge floyd for his p4p belt which is what all the smaller fighters are really fighting over, and since floyd is pound for pound the best in the sport anyone that wants to fight him should go to 147...this is like floyd challenging pavlik for the belt then demanding that he meet him at 155...
PACMAN fought oscar who was at 154 at WW...if (3) he can fight a LMW then he can fight WWs its that simple..other than that ,the catch weight crap is just the same as roy jones demanding 100million to fight lennox lewis...just another way to get out of the fight...
and if cotto drops to 140 to fight PACMAN then it will be because arum and cottos people talked him into accepting the high risk/ high reward fight..besides cotto isn as old as PBF or SHANE..esp shane who hasn't been that small in over 10years...cotto might be able to handle the weight loss better than the older two fighters..which is probably why roach demands that cotto drops the most weight out of the three...(4) its the same as pricing yourself out....floyd might consider the catchweight because he's arrongant enough to do it..but shane and cotto would only be doing it for the mega bucks...
Shane isn't making 142, at least not a healthy Shane. Then again, fighting true elite welterweights may be too much of a challenge for Pacquiao. We are talking about a guy who started fighting at 108. Maybe he should stick to fighting junior welterweights and lightweights. There are undoubtedly some good fights in those weight classes. I don't necessarily disagree with that. One thing I agree with is that fighting Shane at 142 is not winning a title in a 7th weight class. No way.
- Floyd isn't a natural 147? Why then has he fought at or above 145 since 2005? And why has he required all his most recent fights against smaller opponents to be at that weight? If he was as effective at 140, why wouldn't he fight at that weight? And just to keep it in perspective, the lineal champion you refer to was big, bad...Carlos Baldomir. ;) He hasn't fought one other champion at 147. Don't kid yourself - not one!
- You make the point for why Hatton or another smaller fighter would want to move up to fight Floyd, and you are right. But, you don't respond to why Floyd would want to fight them when he has a deep crop of top tier welterweights to fight. He is a welterweight - they are junior welterweights and lightweights. (Not that it is a great point anyway, but Pacquiao went to Hatton's natural weight to fight him when he was p4p #1)
- Pacquiao fought ODLH at 147 because he is too small to fight a natural lmw. He is 5'6! The weight was an attempt at evening the playing field because he couldn't beat a natural light middleweight. But if you are going to make that argument, it must apply to Floyd too, right? If he fought ODLH at 154, he can fight lmw's. Instead, Floyd, supposedly the p4p best in the world, has fight junior welterweights and lightweights.
- There are two ways to look at it and your way - that using your leverage as p4p #1 to make heavier boxers come to you is pricing yourself out - is one way. I don't disagree. The other way to look at it is that Pacquiao wants to fight Shane and Cotto, but they are too big for him at 147 and that fighting at 142 evens the playing field. One thing that is certain is that Marquez fighting Floyd at 147 is NOT an even playing field.
Floyd is getting the criticism because there are a ton of elite, tough welterweights out there and he chose to fight Marquez, whose last fight was at 135, and has made a career at 130 and below. Floyd has five fights where he could fight boxers who won't be smaller and won't be weight drained. And on that note, other than Oscar, when has Floyd fought a bigger fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by blegitYou're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerAs I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...Quote:
Originally Posted by blegit
Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.
If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
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It is more that from a fan's perspective, I want to see Floyd challenged. I'm bored seeing him fight smaller men so he can showcase his skills.
You're making it seem like Floyd is a monster puncher who keeps KO'ing smaller guys.. Floyd has fought PLENTY of guys his size throughout his career, and several guys that are bigger.. besides DLH.. Diego Corrales was undefeated and had tons of power at 135 and floyd took him out..Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratFloyd is getting the criticism because there are a ton of elite, tough welterweights out there and he chose to fight Marquez, whose last fight was at 135, and has made a career at 130 and below. Floyd has five fights where he could fight boxers who won't be smaller and won't be weight drained. And on that note, other than Oscar, when has Floyd fought a bigger fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by blegitYou're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
It is more that from a fan's perspective, I want to see Floyd challenged. I'm bored seeing him fight smaller men so he can showcase his skills.
i will agree that there are "bigger" guys to fight at WW, but if he lost to a margarito or a clottey or a paul williams couldn't you play devils advocate and say that they beat a guy who moved up in weight and only fought "smaller" guys at 147 while he was in the weight class?
bigger and smaller are relative terms..
as far as manny saying he'd fight shane at 142 and not 147, does that mean he wouldn't fight floyd at 147 either? Interesting concept..
It comes down to is roach worried that 147 is too high for manny? or does he just not want moseley at his best weight.. if you asked him, i'm sure he would say that it's too high a weight for manny but we all know that it's really because he wants moseley to be drained.