Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
We don't know that Cotto cannot make 143 or 144 lbs. He looked drained in his last fights at 140 but a halfway house might be a balance.
Cotto is much bigger than Manny so for Manny to fight him at 147 is to his disadvantage. 143-44 represents a compromise. And you could hardly call Manny of being unmanly. If he was a career junior welter weight then fair enough, suck it up and move up a division but this is a guy who has already stormed through 7 (SEVEN!!!!!!) weight classes, so cutting his some slack over a few lbs in order to allow a MEGAFIGHT to happen is hardly a big deal.
As for another weight class between cruiser and heavyweight I don't believe the boxers themselves want it. Very few heavyweights would want to move down to a halfway division and miss out on the glamour of being in the heavyweights if they can fight there, it represents the pinnacle of our great sport after all, the Premier Division so to speak, you win the heavyweight title you are the best boxer in the world, in an absolute sense.
Also there is such a thing as critical mass and its been proven in countless fights in the heavyweight division over the years that beyond a certain point sheer size is simply no longer an advantage. The extra bulk comes at the cost of speed and mobility and even power, very few giant heavyweights have been one punch knockout artists.
So in the heavyweight division the difference between a man weighing 215 lbs (providing he is able to use his superior speed and mobility) and a man weighing even up to 300 lbs makes no difference in favouring one fighter over another. The better boxer will likely win, an example most would expect David Haye to smash Nikolay Valuev, certainly the 70 lbs or so he gave up would be offset by the much greater speed of the smaller man.
This simply isn't the case at lower weights where size matters more, although I do feel truly great fighters are able to overcome that to a greater degree.
But regarding catchweights, for someone like Manny who began at straweight I believe he's already proven himself man enough by tearing through 7 weight classes. We can definitely cut him some slack here and imo it's Cotto who is not the 'man' if he feels unable to cut 3 or 4 lbs compared to the 20 or lbs Pacquaio would have moved up in the past couple years.
If it was Hatton wanting a catchweight at 143 I agree gay as fuck, but Manny has earned the right and the 'machismo' burden to give something up to allow the fight to happen and prove he's the best falls very much on Cotto, Floyd or Mosely in this case imo.
But this is it. WHY should Manny Pacquiao, or Anybody be given any ''Slack'' for a shot at Glory?
Did Roy Jones ask Ruiz to cut a stone to make a fair fight? No.
Roy bulked up as much as he saw reasonable and just got on with it.
Your Haye Valuev comments are a bit of a contradiction IMO. 70lbs difference is okay for two heavyweights but ''size matters more in the lower divisions'' ???
That's absolute rubbish Bill. Manny Fighting at 147 is a problem but Haye fighting a 300lbs monster is cool?
Surely you can see this is nonsense?
You seriously think David Haye is facing a tougher challenge against Nikolay Valuev than Bernard Hopkins would than fighting David Haye? I can't even debate that, that's just the funniest thing I've ever heard :D
As I said before size matters only up to a critical mass. Humans have a critical mass like ALL animals, a maximum size and weight above which their size can count against them. Valueve on account of his size is slow as fuck.
Regarding Roy Jones against John Ruiz. This actually highlights my point. Roy in moving up to heavyweight to achieve the goal of fighting a heavyweight world champ had to pick the SHITTEST heavyweight champ out there. He didn't beat a real champ, he beat a paper belt trinket holder.
Manny Pacquio is on about fighting either Cotto or Shane Mosely unquestionable the BEST fighters int the welterweight division and WORLD CLASS operators. Ruiz was and always has been a very mediocre champ.
As for not cutting Pacqauio any slack for a shot at glory, why should he have to fight Cotto at Cotto's weight any more than Cotto should fight Manny at Manny's weight?
Manny is the p4p number 1 recognised by everyone as the best fighter on the planet right now, Cotto is the guy who has something to prove.
Manny has already come up 7 weight classes why can't Cotto weight in at 2 lbs (just 2 freaking lbs) less than he weighed in against Clottey to make this fight happen?
And regarding the glory. What is the real glory, winning a trinket belt or beating Miguel Cotto?
The top champs are bigger than the belts, who gives a shit if Manny vs Cotto is for a belt or not, it's the fight that matters!!!
The ultimate goal of boxing HAS to be to give us the best, most entertaining and competitive matchups possible. We want to see the best fighters fight the best fighters.
The weight classes, world titles etc are there to help facilitate this, they are merely the methods by which we can help get the best fights. To put the weight classes and belts above the fights is ridiculous.
And HONESTLY you would rather see Ruiz vs Roy Jones at heavyweight than Cotto vs Pacquaio at 143 and Hopkins vs Haye at 210lbs?
In your heart of hearts, and not just to win an argument you think Ruiz vs Jones is better matchmaking, more entertaining, and a better fight for boxing in getting an audience than Cotto Paquaio at 143 and Hopkins vs Haye at 210? Seriously??? :confused:
