Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesse James
I'm not saying weight was the only factor, but it definitely was A factor. Sure, Floyd outboxed him, but when was the last time we have seen Marquez so cautious and gun shy? He was clearly hesitant to let his hands go because he was wary of the bigger man's power. He looked completely intimidated by Floyd's size advantage if you ask me.
When was the last time Marquez fought someone that was not only faster then him but could outtime him. He fought faster guys like Pacquiao but he never fought another boxer that could outtime him as quick as Mayweather did that he couldnt hit. His gunshy had nothing to do with Mayweathers weight, he was trying to find a way to attack without getting countered, and he couldn't, he wanted to find a way to time Mayweather and he couldn't. His boxing and his timing are what make him Marquez. Mayweather took both away.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesse James
I'm not saying weight was the only factor, but it definitely was A factor. Sure, Floyd outboxed him, but when was the last time we have seen Marquez so cautious and gun shy? He was clearly hesitant to let his hands go because he was wary of the bigger man's power. He looked completely intimidated by Floyd's size advantage if you ask me.
When was the last time Marquez fought someone that was not only faster then him but could outtime him. He fought faster guys like Pacquiao but he never fought another boxer that could outtime him as quick as Mayweather did that he couldnt hit. His gunshy had nothing to do with Mayweathers weight, he was trying to find a way to attack without getting countered, and he couldn't, he wanted to find a way to time Mayweather and he couldn't. His boxing and his timing are what make him Marquez. Mayweather took both away.
That's not the point. Pac-man hit him plenty but he wasn't afraid of getting hit by him. Unless you're pyschic, i don't see how you can say how him being gunshy had nothing to do with the weight....maybe we should ask him......
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesse James
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesse James
I'm not saying weight was the only factor, but it definitely was A factor. Sure, Floyd outboxed him, but when was the last time we have seen Marquez so cautious and gun shy? He was clearly hesitant to let his hands go because he was wary of the bigger man's power. He looked completely intimidated by Floyd's size advantage if you ask me.
When was the last time Marquez fought someone that was not only faster then him but could outtime him. He fought faster guys like Pacquiao but he never fought another boxer that could outtime him as quick as Mayweather did that he couldnt hit. His gunshy had nothing to do with Mayweathers weight, he was trying to find a way to attack without getting countered, and he couldn't, he wanted to find a way to time Mayweather and he couldn't. His boxing and his timing are what make him Marquez. Mayweather took both away.
That's not the point. Pac-man hit him plenty but he wasn't afraid of getting hit by him. Unless you're pyschic, i don't see how you can say how him being gunshy had nothing to do with the weight....maybe we should ask him......
Marquez has already stated that he thought the weight was a difference. That and the speed. Marquez also said that if he had time to attune to the weight he would have done better.
Mayweather dwarfed Marquez out there and probably hurt Marquez a lot more than Marquez could have hurt Mayweather. In that sense the weight which relates to size and power would clearly play into the hands of Mayweather.
I don't see the point in defending Mayweathers win with all the variables stacked in his favour and him not weighing in correctly and then not even decaring what he weighed come fight night. They are shady antics that should not be tolerated again. It makes a mockery of boxing which gets a hard enough time as it is.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
FLOYD MAYWEATHER PFP#1 again baby.. I dont want to hear the size bullshit baby, Pac weighed more for there fights at 130...
To me it was the defense and footwork and skill on a level this generation hasnt seen. Marquez was wiped out didnt win a second of a round.
Get a grip dude. Remember. There is a difference between weighing more than your opponent at the weigh in than during a fight. Marquez is a great LIGHTWEIGHT, not a great welterweight. Marquez has never been known for speed or even defense, just toughness and good counterpunching. He showed the former in taking some great shots from Floyd but was unable to show the latter, mainly because of respect for Floyd's power and his defensive skills as well.
Floyd beat silly another opponent that HE chose as opposed to an opponent the general public wants to see him fight. From the beginning, the general public did not sanction this fight and most asked "why?"
There is no question that Floyd is great, but unless he steps in the ring with Mosley, Cotto, or Manny, he will forever be doubted (at least in my mind) as to what he can do against perceived great opponents.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Mayweather is not number 1 again after beating a great small lightweight at welterweight friend.
You are probably gonna mention how Pacquiao weighed around the 147 mark for his fights with Marquez but the difference was Marquez was fighting at a weight he was comfortable at, where his speed was at his best, where at welterweight his handspeed was clearly diminished.
A win over Pacquiao would give him back his spot as number 1.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeyUK
I don't get what the issue is with Floyd beating Marquez.. yet Pacquiao beating DLH is okay?
Either way you look at it.. Floyd still has the better resume and at the end of the day is STILL unbeaten, so #1 P4P is the only place you could possibly place him.
That's very much not true and up for debate. A case could be made for either man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesse James
I'm not saying weight was the only factor, but it definitely was A factor. Sure, Floyd outboxed him, but when was the last time we have seen Marquez so cautious and gun shy? He was clearly hesitant to let his hands go because he was wary of the bigger man's power. He looked completely intimidated by Floyd's size advantage if you ask me.
Once Floyd's weight was announced, Marquez immediately turned to his promoters and was like "WTF!?" It may have been in his head a bit but I think it was more of Floyd being much better than he had anticipated. Mayweather has that effect on people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Mayweather is not number 1 again after beating a great small lightweight at welterweight friend.
You are probably gonna mention how Pacquiao weighed around the 147 mark for his fights with Marquez but the difference was Marquez was fighting at a weight he was comfortable at, where his speed was at his best, where at welterweight his handspeed was clearly diminished.
A win over Pacquiao would give him back his spot as number 1.
I agree with this post completely. I said it from the get go that I thought this was a mismatch. Marquez was a great lightweight but I even think lightweight was higher than his best weight.
If a fight with the P4P #1 guy is possible, then he doesn't lose his spot until he gets beaten. Floyd needs to beat Pac. Beating #2 doesn't make you #1 (Even though he DESTROYED #2).
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Floyd looked Spectacular last night and Is interesting when we heard peoples asking a Floyd vs Pacman fight , IMO for What ? Pac vs Marquez was a closer fight and to me that could be the similar fight that Marquez did , though Pacman is more aggressive and offensive , but i seeing that that most of fans have to understand that they are in high weight , now with that Marquez fight and the next of Cotto vs Pac we can determine how they could handle their weights with a competitive fighters.......
Both made a good fight , Congratulations !!!!!!!!!!
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Fair enough but dont suggest I'm foolish because you dont share the same opinion I have.. Nothing you can say will change my mind either
Where did I say you were foolish?
I merely agreed with Missy (which pains me more than you will ever know) who said that this didn't mean that PBF should be considered P4P #1.
you're off the BJ list:mad:
Meh, as long as Big H doesn't honor your ban I'm all good.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
I agree with this post completely. I said it from the get go that I thought this was a mismatch. Marquez was a great lightweight but I even think lightweight was higher than his best weight.
If a fight with the P4P #1 guy is possible, then he doesn't lose his spot until he gets beaten. Floyd needs to beat Pac. Beating #2 doesn't make you #1 (Even though he DESTROYED #2).
Exactly.
I think Marquez could still make 130 if he wanted to.
He only moved up to 135 to chase a third fight with Pacquiao.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Floyd reenters the mythical p4p list, but beating an guy that was 2 weight classes above his natural fighting weight doesn't make you #1.
If it was a Shane Mosley or Miguel Cotto he had beaten last night, then yeah the Floyd supporters have an legitimate argument on why Floyd should be #1 again. But beating a great lightweight (and that's not even JMM's best fighting weight) while you're an Welterweight will have many critics rightly or wrongly.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
This is why they match fighters up and have them actually fight.Then Mayweather will reclaim the pointless p4p #1 thingy.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
FLOYD MAYWEATHER PFP#1 again baby.. I dont want to hear the size bullshit baby, Pac weighed more for there fights at 130...
Why, because God forbid someone disagree with the all knowing JT? ;) :-*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
To me it was the defense and footwork and skill on a level this generation hasnt seen. Marquez was wiped out didnt win a second of a round.
You forgot to mention his elbow, and forearm work. :headscratch:
You're right he has impressive footwork. ;D
http://i37.tinypic.com/8wczyf.gif
:flowers:
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Whatever to all of you
I'm with you JT, even though i think he had a serious size advantage, you can't argue with the dominant skills he displayed. Floyd gets his P4P no.1 spot back in my book. I'd pick him over Pac at any weight.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Whatever to all of you
I'm with you JT, even though i think he had a serious size advantage, you can't argue with the dominant skills he displayed. Floyd gets his P4P no.1 spot back in my book. I'd pick him over Pac at any weight.
Yup.
#1 p4p. Easy.
And if he isn't, then the p4p thing should be done away with because it no longer holds any credit. Its about who would win if they all fought at a single weight.
How can people say "Yeah, Mayweather would beat Pacquiao/Cotto/Mosley...but he isn't p4p" when that is exactly why he SHOULD be p4p.
Mayweather is just operating at a higher skill level than everyone else in boxing right now.
