Does anyone else think Jermain Taylor might just upset Abraham?

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

If you had the fight live on showtime and just listened to the commentary alone you would of believed taylor destroyed froch

thankfully we all know better and knew that the fight was pretty even going into that last round. Froch just didnt turn up for the 1st half of the fight but it was clear for all to see that once he established himself he was the dominant fighter and the only guy likely to KO his man.

kessler and froch are the standout talents in this comp and i fully expect it to be the 2 battling it out at the end for the title

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Taylor was leading on all cards, Froch went down... how can you say that you saw Froch ahead? I saw the match with east european language (I would say polish or Tchek but I am not certain) so I didn'T had Showtime to convince me and I clearly saw Taylor having the better for most part of the fight and convincingly and not being especially a fan of neither, I can't be biased based on that:)

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Sorry mate but Taylor wasnt leading on all cards these were the cards going into the last:

judge: Nobuaki Uratani 102-106 | judge: Omar Mintun 102-106 | judge: Jack Woodburn 106-102

So judge Woodburn has Froch winning 106102, if the fight finished I had it a draw with a 10-8 round for Froch, or if Froch had Taylor down again if it didnt stop I had it Froch winning by a point, the fight was very close.

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I think Taylor was 3, maybe 4 rounds ahead after 11. If Taylor had've made the bell (even if he hadn't been dropped again) it would've been at 10-7 to Froch, so it could be argued that Froch would've been worth a draw without the stoppage. He was clearly well behind going into the 12th though

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by Nameless

Taylor was leading on all cards, Froch went down... how can you say that you saw Froch ahead? I saw the match with east european language (I would say polish or Tchek but I am not certain) so I didn'T had Showtime to convince me and I clearly saw Taylor having the better for most part of the fight and convincingly and not being especially a fan of neither, I can't be biased based on that:)

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Sorry mate but Taylor wasnt leading on all cards these were the cards going into the last:

judge: Nobuaki Uratani 102-106 | judge: Omar Mintun 102-106 | judge: Jack Woodburn 106-102

So judge Woodburn has Froch winning 106102, if the fight finished I had it a draw with a 10-8 round for Froch, or if Froch had Taylor down again if it didnt stop I had it Froch winning by a point, the fight was very close.

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I think Taylor was 3, maybe 4 rounds ahead after 11. If Taylor had've made the bell (even if he hadn't been dropped again) it would've been at 10-7 to Froch, so it could be argued that Froch would've been worth a draw without the stoppage. He was clearly well behind going into the 12th though

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Going into the 12th and taking official scorecards away I had Froch needing the KO. Thing is, he delivered. Sign of a true champ IMO.

Abraham likes to fight kind of like Bernard Hopkins, he'll give up the first 3 rounds or so and then turn it on for the rest of the fight....IF JT can pace himself he'll have a very good chance at winning, but he's going to have to use the jab and footspeed to dodge any punches from AA as Abraham has some very underrated power

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by Nameless

Taylor was leading on all cards, Froch went down... how can you say that you saw Froch ahead? I saw the match with east european language (I would say polish or Tchek but I am not certain) so I didn'T had Showtime to convince me and I clearly saw Taylor having the better for most part of the fight and convincingly and not being especially a fan of neither, I can't be biased based on that:)

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Sorry mate but Taylor wasnt leading on all cards these were the cards going into the last:

judge: Nobuaki Uratani 102-106 | judge: Omar Mintun 102-106 | judge: Jack Woodburn 106-102

So judge Woodburn has Froch winning 106102, if the fight finished I had it a draw with a 10-8 round for Froch, or if Froch had Taylor down again if it didnt stop I had it Froch winning by a point, the fight was very close.

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The thing is Woodburn's card was used as example in virtually every boxing publication of what bad scoring. Even Boxing Monthly which loves Froch up admitted it was an aberration. I had Taylor up 8 rounds to 3 going into the final round. If he'd taken a knee after the 1st KD, he'd still have won for me & more importantly 2 of the judges. Froch did start to come into it late.

The point I think Nameless was making is HTH's point that Abraham isn't on Froch's level is kinda laughable, as is saying that Froch was easily winning the fight. Abraham is as good as Froch if not better. Although this tournament will give us our answer.

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I, however, don't see that happening and this will be another instance of Abraham beating a previous victim of Pavlik.

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The only common opponent they currently share is Edison Miranda. Abraham beat him first.

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Small point, but the first fight with Miranda was a questionable victory. If it had been anywhere other than Germany, Miranda would have got the nod. Watch the fight again and tell me what you think. Not that Abraham didn't prove a ton by fighting through the fight with a broken jaw. And Pavlik was the one who knocked Miranda out first.

Taylor is a more talented fighter and bigger puncher than Abraham but Taylor cant seem to come into the fight prepared to go 12 rounds........You cant count taylor out but it is also hard to convince myself he will be ready to go 12 rounds....

I wouldnt be surprised if Taylor floors abraham in this fight.........

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by skel1983

Sorry mate but Taylor wasnt leading on all cards these were the cards going into the last:

judge: Nobuaki Uratani 102-106 | judge: Omar Mintun 102-106 | judge: Jack Woodburn 106-102

So judge Woodburn has Froch winning 106102, if the fight finished I had it a draw with a 10-8 round for Froch, or if Froch had Taylor down again if it didnt stop I had it Froch winning by a point, the fight was very close.

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The thing is Woodburn's card was used as example in virtually every boxing publication of what bad scoring. Even Boxing Monthly which loves Froch up admitted it was an aberration. I had Taylor up 8 rounds to 3 going into the final round. If he'd taken a knee after the 1st KD, he'd still have won for me & more importantly 2 of the judges. Froch did start to come into it late.

The point I think Nameless was making is HTH's point that Abraham isn't on Froch's level is kinda laughable, as is saying that Froch was easily winning the fight. Abraham is as good as Froch if not better. Although this tournament will give us our answer.

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I, however, don't see that happening and this will be another instance of Abraham beating a previous victim of Pavlik.

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The only common opponent they currently share is Edison Miranda. Abraham beat him first.

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Small point, but the first fight with Miranda was a questionable victory. If it had been anywhere other than Germany, Miranda would have got the nod. Watch the fight again and tell me what you think. Not that Abraham didn't prove a ton by fighting through the fight with a broken jaw. And Pavlik was the one who knocked Miranda out first.

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I thought Abraham won the first fight by 4 or 5 points, I've not heard anyone really say Miranda should have won before. Pavlik knocking him out first is besides the point, Abraham beat him first with a broken jaw. If we're going to start trying to give Pavlik credit for KOing him first then you could equally argue Abraham KO'd him quicker.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

The thing is Woodburn's card was used as example in virtually every boxing publication of what bad scoring. Even Boxing Monthly which loves Froch up admitted it was an aberration. I had Taylor up 8 rounds to 3 going into the final round. If he'd taken a knee after the 1st KD, he'd still have won for me & more importantly 2 of the judges. Froch did start to come into it late.

The point I think Nameless was making is HTH's point that Abraham isn't on Froch's level is kinda laughable, as is saying that Froch was easily winning the fight. Abraham is as good as Froch if not better. Although this tournament will give us our answer.



The only common opponent they currently share is Edison Miranda. Abraham beat him first.

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Small point, but the first fight with Miranda was a questionable victory. If it had been anywhere other than Germany, Miranda would have got the nod. Watch the fight again and tell me what you think. Not that Abraham didn't prove a ton by fighting through the fight with a broken jaw. And Pavlik was the one who knocked Miranda out first.

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I thought Abraham won the first fight by 4 or 5 points, I've not heard anyone really say Miranda should have won before. Pavlik knocking him out first is besides the point, Abraham beat him first with a broken jaw. If we're going to start trying to give Pavlik credit for KOing him first then you could equally argue Abraham KO'd him quicker.

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I'll rewatch it. Maybe you are right. I remember thinking at the time that Miranda got robbed.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Small point, but the first fight with Miranda was a questionable victory. If it had been anywhere other than Germany, Miranda would have got the nod. Watch the fight again and tell me what you think. Not that Abraham didn't prove a ton by fighting through the fight with a broken jaw. And Pavlik was the one who knocked Miranda out first.

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I thought Abraham won the first fight by 4 or 5 points, I've not heard anyone really say Miranda should have won before. Pavlik knocking him out first is besides the point, Abraham beat him first with a broken jaw. If we're going to start trying to give Pavlik credit for KOing him first then you could equally argue Abraham KO'd him quicker.

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I'll rewatch it. Maybe you are right. I remember thinking at the time that Miranda got robbed.

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Its been a bit since I watched the fight, but if I recall Miranda had some low blow deductions in the fight that were questionable thus resulting in the loss. Can't remember if they were legit point deductions though

Taylor will easily outpoint AA who is far too slow.

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Originally Posted by markb018

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I thought Abraham won the first fight by 4 or 5 points, I've not heard anyone really say Miranda should have won before. Pavlik knocking him out first is besides the point, Abraham beat him first with a broken jaw. If we're going to start trying to give Pavlik credit for KOing him first then you could equally argue Abraham KO'd him quicker.

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I'll rewatch it. Maybe you are right. I remember thinking at the time that Miranda got robbed.

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Its been a bit since I watched the fight, but if I recall Miranda had some low blow deductions in the fight that were questionable thus resulting in the loss. Can't remember if they were legit point deductions though

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It was a headbutt that he lost 2 or 3 points for and it was very fair, it was a brutal cheapshot to a man with his jaw hanging off his face.

The big controversy there was that Abraham quit, he made it clear that he didn't want to fight and Randy Neuman (sp?) just didn't let him quit, he consulted with people ringside and made him continue with a broken jaw.

I don't think Taylor stops him but I think this one will be a very close decision imo.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Small point, but the first fight with Miranda was a questionable victory. If it had been anywhere other than Germany, Miranda would have got the nod. Watch the fight again and tell me what you think. Not that Abraham didn't prove a ton by fighting through the fight with a broken jaw. And Pavlik was the one who knocked Miranda out first.

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I thought Abraham won the first fight by 4 or 5 points, I've not heard anyone really say Miranda should have won before. Pavlik knocking him out first is besides the point, Abraham beat him first with a broken jaw. If we're going to start trying to give Pavlik credit for KOing him first then you could equally argue Abraham KO'd him quicker.

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I'll rewatch it. Maybe you are right. I remember thinking at the time that Miranda got robbed.

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I also think that Abraham won by a fair 4-5 points... and doing so bleeding like a pig with a broken jaw says a lot about the boxer. Taylor is very good, no doubts about it, but the thing is that he doesn't have neither the jaw or stamina to stand up against King Arthur, in my book at least, damn can't wait to see the next step of that tournament as so many answers will be answered.

I think Taylor Decisively beats him. He has the right style, he just needs to stay focused later on in the fight, but I think he will his time.

Also, if you put Abraham in with all the guys Jermaine fought, he would have more than a few loses himself. Even though Abrahams undefeated, I think Taylor has the more impressive resume by far.

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Originally Posted by blegit

Looking at all possibilities for Taylor I can not see him beating King Arthur. No way. Wrong matchup. The guy is granite chinned, ridiculous conditioning, and presses like a bull. As much as I hate to say it I very much doubt Taylor will have the conditioning to hold up to a King Arthur pressure fight. I will be going for Taylor but King Arthur is the real deal and I can't see Taylor changing into a pure boxer by this fight.

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I definitely wouldn't consider Abraham a pressure fighter. In fact I think he is at real risk of losing this fight because he won't pressure enough.

I can't see Abraham winning any of the first 5 or 6 rounds, he just won't do anything but cover up.

It all depends on how much pressure Abraham can put on Taylor late on, but my opinion is that unless Abraham can knock Taylor out he could well lose the fight.

I don't really rate Artur's chances much in this competition, to me he's the rank outsider. Never fought at the weight, never beaten a significant opponent, unless you call going life and death with Miranda a significant win.

I think and have said previously that I feel he will be the disappointment of the whole show. I wouldn't be suprised if he lost every fight, I mean seriously when has a decent non heavyweight ever come out of Europe? Us Brits have had a few but Germany and Armenia or wherever he's from, well I dont recall them ever having a world class fighter capable of beating the best in the world.

They normally prefer to go 40-0 against the type of guys that even Felix Sturm would be embarrassed to fight. Credit to him for stepping up, but he's going to struggle imo.

Taylor to win.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by blegit

Looking at all possibilities for Taylor I can not see him beating King Arthur. No way. Wrong matchup. The guy is granite chinned, ridiculous conditioning, and presses like a bull. As much as I hate to say it I very much doubt Taylor will have the conditioning to hold up to a King Arthur pressure fight. I will be going for Taylor but King Arthur is the real deal and I can't see Taylor changing into a pure boxer by this fight.

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I definitely wouldn't consider Abraham a pressure fighter. In fact I think he is at real risk of losing this fight because he won't pressure enough.

I can't see Abraham winning any of the first 5 or 6 rounds, he just won't do anything but cover up.

It all depends on how much pressure Abraham can put on Taylor late on, but my opinion is that unless Abraham can knock Taylor out he could well lose the fight.

I don't really rate Artur's chances much in this competition, to me he's the rank outsider. Never fought at the weight, never beaten a significant opponent, unless you call going life and death with Miranda a significant win.

I think and have said previously that I feel he will be the disappointment of the whole show. I wouldn't be suprised if he lost every fight, I mean seriously when has a decent non heavyweight ever come out of Europe? Us Brits have had a few but Germany and Armenia or wherever he's from, well I dont recall them ever having a world class fighter capable of beating the best in the world.

They normally prefer to go 40-0 against the type of guys that even Felix Sturm would be embarrassed to fight. Credit to him for stepping up, but he's going to struggle imo.

Taylor to win.

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Thats a big statement! The favourite for the whole tournament is a Euro fighter in Kessler! The best Cruiser in the world at the moment is Polish (Adamek)You cannot accuse Tomasz of not picking tough opponents! Vic Darchinyan is not the greatest fighter ever but he has had some good wins is not scared to fight the top guys and is Armenian. Then there was Kostya who altho i try to claim as an Aussie is a Russian who could go with the best of them.

Abraham probably wont win the tournament but i dont think bein Armenian has much to do with it!!!