Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Don't think Hopkins is 'scared' of Danny Green VD, but I think the Third Man has a valid point - it's a high risk versus low reward fight for Hopkins. Green is fit and he can bang, so why would Hopkins want to risk his legacy by fighting a bloke that very few American fight fans have heard of?
I know Green is talking about Hopkins, but I just don't see the fight as being on Hopkins radar at all - hell Hopkins doesn't even want to fight Dawson, a fighter who HAS some exposure in the States, so why does he want to be messing with Danny Green?
Personally I don't think Hopkins knows what he wants - I think the problem with Bernard is he has an acute awareness of his own limitations at this point in time, that's why he's choosing his opponents very carefully these days.
I'm with you there Greig. I doubt Hopkins would be scared of anyone. But the risk V reward thing is a huge factor. Hopkins was due to fight RJJ for big dollars no matter what the result. Both similar age and legend status and have fought before so win lose or draw it is a win win for both. Plenty of money and no disgrace in losing to a legend. Taking on Green for hopkins means less money and higher risk particularly if he losses to a "nobody". Not suggesting Green wins but if he did..... much worse than losing to RJJ. So why take it? There are other fights out there for BHop. He wants the $ and to cement his legacy as one of the greats. Why risk both to fight a "nobody".
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Hopkins fights about 30 seconds a round these days, but he fights it that well that its enough to beat most people.
People point to the Pavlik fight... Well Pavlik had bronchitis and was fighting 10 pounds outside his ideal weight class. Pavlik had no energy, no snap in his punches. I'm not saying he would have beaten Hopkins if he was 100%, but he would have been a lot more competitive. So my point is people saying Hopkins is sensational because of that performance are somewhat delusional. I think he deserves credit for the Tarver performance, but the Winky Wright and Pavlik fights I think, well, he beat up on much smaller guys, one of whom had bronchitis. Apart from Tarver, he hasn't fought a genuine 175 pounder yet...
You want to see how to beat Hopkins? Look at Calzaghe - he beat hm with blinding hand speed and work rate. The way Hopkins was looking to the ref for a breather in that fight was disgraceful. Now, credit to Hopkins - it was still a close fight, but Joe won no question.
That's the way to beat him - make the 45 year old work his bollocks off. I think Green could do that. MORE IMPORTANTLY, Green is the bigger guy, bigger puncher, bigger risk. That's why you'll never see the fight.
I think Green is a beast at 175, his last fights at 168 against Beyer and Mundine, he was a weight drained shell.
It's hardly that simple. Calzaghe made Hopkins work more than anyone has ever done, as far as pressing the fight and taking him out of his comfort zone, and many(myself included) think it could have gone either way. Danny Green doesn't have half the modicum of skill, slickness, speed, basically anything Calzaghe has. He is a polar opposite stylstically, and yet you are trying to draw from the Calzaghe fight to explain how he could beat Hopkins? He is SLOW, he has to be set to punch, and he has been outboxed by guys who are nowhere near Hopkins level. If he rushes forward throwing punches like he did against Roy Hopkins is going to counter him hard and often, then Danny will get reluctant to engage, and come apart of the next 11 rounds. It's an incredibly easy fight to predict imo, Danny Green is not beating Hopkins.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
This thread had me tearing up with laughter a few times. Green Hopkins in Vegas... **Cricket Chirp - Cough**
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
If it would(which is almost certain all things considering) present Hopkins with the biggest payday, he should take the fight in Australia... It's an intruiging fight and would sell, neither guy has to shift much weight, it could take place at LHW or cruiser easily.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
This is funny.
Hopkins is ducking Green ? hahaha
Why would Hopkins waste his time with Green when he plans on fighting much more important fighters like a Adamek or Haye ?
Green knocked out a past it Jones, Calzaghe would of done the same if he had power.
Hopkins would outbox Green no doubt in my mind. His counter punching ability, footwork and defense are far to much for Green to deal with.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
This is funny.
Hopkins is ducking Green ? hahaha
Why would Hopkins waste his time with Green when he plans on fighting much more important fighters like a Adamek or Haye ?
Green knocked out a past it Jones, Calzaghe would of done the same if he had power.
Hopkins would outbox Green no doubt in my mind. His counter punching ability, footwork and defense are far to much for Green to deal with.
Got to stop you there to call BULLSHIT.
There is no way in hell Hopkins is ever sharing a ring with either of those two guys. Hopkins, in his 40's anyway, likes to pick on much smaller guys. He already had a fight with Adamek in the bag and then pulled this shit:-
Hopkins sells Adamek (and fans) short - ESPN
"Richard told me that Hopkins said if you want to have a split, we can't do the fight," Duva said. "It's astonishing. Either Richard doesn't want to make the fight or Hopkins is out to lunch on his expectations. Half a million is silly. Tomasz generates that on his own against regular opponents. I told Richard come up with what you think is an equitable split or tell me what Hopkins wants and we'll buy you out."
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Hopkins fights about 30 seconds a round these days, but he fights it that well that its enough to beat most people.
People point to the Pavlik fight... Well Pavlik had bronchitis and was fighting 10 pounds outside his ideal weight class. Pavlik had no energy, no snap in his punches. I'm not saying he would have beaten Hopkins if he was 100%, but he would have been a lot more competitive. So my point is people saying Hopkins is sensational because of that performance are somewhat delusional. I think he deserves credit for the Tarver performance, but the Winky Wright and Pavlik fights I think, well, he beat up on much smaller guys, one of whom had bronchitis. Apart from Tarver, he hasn't fought a genuine 175 pounder yet...
You want to see how to beat Hopkins? Look at Calzaghe - he beat hm with blinding hand speed and work rate. The way Hopkins was looking to the ref for a breather in that fight was disgraceful. Now, credit to Hopkins - it was still a close fight, but Joe won no question.
That's the way to beat him - make the 45 year old work his bollocks off. I think Green could do that. MORE IMPORTANTLY, Green is the bigger guy, bigger puncher, bigger risk. That's why you'll never see the fight.
I think Green is a beast at 175, his last fights at 168 against Beyer and Mundine, he was a weight drained shell.
"Pavlik had bronchitis, he was fighting outside his natural weight class blah blah blah".
Sounds like excuses to me bud.
No one made Pavlik fight with bronchitis and no one made Pavlik move up to 170 pounds, He accepted it thinking he was gonna score a easy KO over an old fighter, hell Pavlik was a 4-1 favourite. Hopkins schooled him simple as.
People are so quick to make excuses against Hopkins when he wins a fight he wasn't supposed to.
Seeing as you like excuses, should i point out that Hopkins had a thyroid problem against Calzaghe. Thats the thing, i don't make excuses do i because Calzaghe fought a good fight and deserves credit.
You also make it sound like beating Hopkins is easy, Calzaghe had to make Hopkins work his ass off to sneak out a CLOSE win.
Theres no one around 175 or higher imo that can make Hopkins work like Calzaghe did.
There is no fighter that has Calzaghe's combination of speed, footwork, angles and workrate.
Danny Green is slow and easy to hit.
Green does have good power and is durable but Hopkins picks apart fighters like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
And while I'm bagging Hopkins:-
De La Hoya
Trinidad
Winky
Pavlik
Calzaghe (yeah I know he lost)
Seems all B-Hops big fights have been against guys moving up. Apart from Tarver, when has he ever moved up and fought a guy much bigger than him?
Think all this heavyweight talk is bullshit myself:rolleyes:
Hopkins fought DLH at a catchweight of 156 pounds which was only 2 pounds shy of where DLH was natural at, at that point in his career.
At 39 years old, Hopkins had to shed an extra 4 pounds where DLH had to add on 2 pounds.
Trinidad was the favourite to beat Hopkins, not only beat him but knock him out. Hopkins schooled him and unified the middleweight division.
Wright was being avoided by the best fighters around 160 so Hopkins took a fight with him at 42 years old.
Wright had no complaints with moving up 10 pounds and Wright was the favourite to beat Hopkins regardless of weight. Hopkins outscored Wright and won a clear decision.
I stated above about Pavlik.
Tarver is the best bigger fighter Hopkins has fought. The thing is, Hopkins campaign at light heavyweight is just icing on the cake, It's not like thats his career there.
His career at middleweight is why he is an ATG.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
This is funny.
Hopkins is ducking Green ? hahaha
Why would Hopkins waste his time with Green when he plans on fighting much more important fighters like a Adamek or Haye ?
Green knocked out a past it Jones, Calzaghe would of done the same if he had power.
Hopkins would outbox Green no doubt in my mind. His counter punching ability, footwork and defense are far to much for Green to deal with.
Got to stop you there to call BULLSHIT.
There is no way in hell Hopkins is ever sharing a ring with either of those two guys. Hopkins, in his 40's anyway, likes to pick on much smaller guys. He already had a fight with Adamek in the bag and then pulled this shit:-
Hopkins sells Adamek (and fans) short - ESPN
"Richard told me that Hopkins said if you want to have a split, we can't do the fight," Duva said. "It's astonishing. Either Richard doesn't want to make the fight or Hopkins is out to lunch on his expectations. Half a million is silly. Tomasz generates that on his own against regular opponents. I told Richard come up with what you think is an equitable split or tell me what Hopkins wants and we'll buy you out."
So an Adamek deal didn't work out, Hopkins was mostly to blame for this.
Why does that mean that Hopkins isn't now seeking a fight with them now though ?
He sounds pretty serious about the heavyweight thing, i would prefer if he stayed away from heavyweight though.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Bernard is a great fighter, no question. Yes, beating him is incredibly difficult.
But he's choosing his opponents very carefully these days. And I find 'buts' with some of this biggest wins. You're right when you say he was a huge underdog going into Trinidad, but not to me he wasn't which is why I took a nice piece home at 7-1.;D
He sounds serious about the heavyweight thing. But it won't happen because Bernard likes to stack the chips in his favour.
And offering Adamek $500,000 is just plain bullshit - he wasn't being greedy, he didn't want the fight, pure and simple.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
"Whether Hopkins likes it or not Danny Green is now the man" That right there takes the prize.
I knew i would get some bites with that, fantastic. it was actually a dig at Anthony Mundine whose nickname is 'The Man' (that went over everyones head it seems) Green has thrown a spanner in the works and no one really knows what to make of Green. I wanted to see Jones V Hopkins too, it won't happen now. I find it amusing that just a few months ago people were oh so impressed with Jones jr against Lacy? Now he gets KO'd in 1 round Green appears to get all the flak for doing it? Strange thoughts happening here, so just exactly what does Bernard Hopkins want to do?
Hopkins would have a lot tougher fight with Danny Green than he did with Kelly Pavlik, i suspect many fighters will avoid Green like the plague in 2010.
Im not really sure your right there... Certainly a bit tougher, but realistically Green has about the same kind of arsenal that Pavlik does, and is a similar kind of fighter.
Flat footed, need to be set to punch, and never has a plan B. Hopkins and Roy Jones at this point are just such different animals, there's almost nothing to take from Green winning in that fashion as far as Hopkins should be concered, at least imo. Sure it was an upset and fairly shocking at that, but Roy Jones has been violently knocked out twice before, and hadn't fought a live body his own size since then. Green has shown in the past he comes unglued and doesn't have a plan B when someone gets into a rythym, he can be outboxed quite easily. Unless you really think he's about to steamroll Hopkins like that in the first, I see almost no reason to get excited about his chances whatsoever. Hopkins outclasses him 99 times out of 100 imo.
I agree, one of my criticisms of Green is he is or was a little wooden in his approach, almost predictable, Beyer out boxed him in the second fight with a masterful display of boxing and Green never had a plan B. From what i have seen of Green recently he has learned a lot from those defeats to Beyer and Mundine. I think Hopkins would find a way of beating him, it just might be a little more difficult than he thinks. Green is twice the fighter he was 3-4 years ago. We may never know and judging by some of the comments about Green on this thread, people are still afraid of the unknown!
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
I knew i would get some bites with that, fantastic. it was actually a dig at Anthony Mundine whose nickname is 'The Man' (that went over everyones head it seems) Green has thrown a spanner in the works and no one really knows what to make of Green. I wanted to see Jones V Hopkins too, it won't happen now. I find it amusing that just a few months ago people were oh so impressed with Jones jr against Lacy? Now he gets KO'd in 1 round Green appears to get all the flak for doing it? Strange thoughts happening here, so just exactly what does Bernard Hopkins want to do? Hopkins would have a lot tougher fight with Danny Green than he did with Kelly Pavlik, i suspect many fighters will avoid Green like the plague in 2010.
Im not really sure your right there... Certainly a bit tougher, but realistically Green has about the same kind of arsenal that Pavlik does, and is a similar kind of fighter.
Flat footed, need to be set to punch, and never has a plan B. Hopkins and Roy Jones at this point are just such different animals, there's almost nothing to take from Green winning in that fashion as far as Hopkins should be concered, at least imo. Sure it was an upset and fairly shocking at that, but Roy Jones has been violently knocked out twice before, and hadn't fought a live body his own size since then. Green has shown in the past he comes unglued and doesn't have a plan B when someone gets into a rythym, he can be outboxed quite easily. Unless you really think he's about to steamroll Hopkins like that in the first, I see almost no reason to get excited about his chances whatsoever. Hopkins outclasses him 99 times out of 100 imo.
I agree, one of my criticisms of Green is he is or was a little wooden in his approach, almost predictable, Beyer out boxed him in the second fight with a masterful display of boxing and Green never had a plan B. From what i have seen of Green recently he has learned a lot from those defeats to Beyer and Mundine. I think Hopkins would find a way of beating him, it just might be a little more difficult than he thinks. Green is twice the fighter he was 3-4 years ago. We may never know and judging by some of the comments about Green on this thread, people are still afraid of the unknown!
What unknown? I seen over 15 of Danny Green fights. It's not hard to see what to expect. He's a stronger fighter with a big punch. Not more. The fact that a shot Roy Jones is his biggest win say it all. It's unacceptable for a fighter 2 lose to both Anthony Mundine and Markus Beyer and think he's a good fighter. Maybe a lose to one can be excused. But to lose to both is unacceptable.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
I never said Green was crap personally and I've been saying Roy was shot to pieces for a while, I was happy that Green got the win.
But its just not a serious option for Bernard I don't think. Hopkins-Green is not a Las Vegas fight, and why would he go to Australia? Green is too dangerous for a tuneup Ornelas type fight (let me say I don't think he's that dangerous to Hopkins but he's not a tune up), it would have to be a big money fight and is it really? Definitely not in Vegas. And its not really a legacy fight either although lets face it money is first here.
Bernard might retire. Either that or Adamek.
Edit-Bernard did look a bit off the other night and got hit with some decent shots, a Green win isn't totally out of the question but he's a bit made for Bernard really. Chad Dawson would beat Bernard.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
I think Green's win may have made a fight with Hopkins impossible. Why would Hopkins want to fight a fit, strong guy and a very live underdog?
Similarly Dawson, why would he want to go near Green?
Unless we're underestimating how much exposure the Green/Jones fight got in the states. I know it screened as part of the Hopkins fight, but seriously how many viewers would that fight have got? Hopkins in a tune up against a bloke with 5 losses, hell the live gate was only 6000 in his home town...
I think the best Green will do out of this is a shot at maybe an alphabet title holder, which he'll probably win. Then he'll be in exactly the same position he was in in December 2007 when he 'retired' after beating Stipe Drews - except he'll be two years older.
I think if Green's camp starts negotiating for a fight with Dawson or Hopkins, those guys will make it untenable and demand ridiculous money. And the only way Green could offer that kind of money would be to bring them down under, which I don't think either of those guys would do...
Hard to believe, but I can actually see this win not doing Danny much good at all...:-\
Actually whether US fans watched the fight is completely irrelevent. Fans don't need to have seen or even heard of a fighter before for him to attract their interest.
How many British fight fans do you think had ever watched a Jeff Lacy, Mikkell Kessler or Kosta Tyszu fight before they came over to the UK to fight one of our boys? Probably less than 10 percent but they were ecstatic about seeing the fights because of the reputations these guys had.
Same with David Haye fighting Nikolay Valuev. Nobody in the UK had ever seen Valuev fight (if they had they wouldn't have bought the PPV!) but it was still a huge fight over here even though it took place in Germany.
Danny Green KO'd the great Roy Jones in 1 round. That will guarantee him huge exposure from now on.
Danny Williams, one of our very mediocre heavyweights got an unlikely an immediate world title shot against Vitali Klitschko no less because he knocked out a shot Mike Tyson.
As I said before, you beat a legend you become noticed and people will want to fight you.
Hopkins obviously only wants to fight an old legend rather than a real live opponent, but Green has now become a very attractive name for any ambitious light heavyweight or cruiser.
He will be a big draw for the next couple fights at least and will probably fight for a world title, or against a big marquee opponent next time out, and may well have the draw power to bring them them to Oz.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Im not really sure your right there... Certainly a bit tougher, but realistically Green has about the same kind of arsenal that Pavlik does, and is a similar kind of fighter. Flat footed, need to be set to punch, and never has a plan B. Hopkins and Roy Jones at this point are just such different animals, there's almost nothing to take from Green winning in that fashion as far as Hopkins should be concered, at least imo. Sure it was an upset and fairly shocking at that, but Roy Jones has been violently knocked out twice before, and hadn't fought a live body his own size since then. Green has shown in the past he comes unglued and doesn't have a plan B when someone gets into a rythym, he can be outboxed quite easily. Unless you really think he's about to steamroll Hopkins like that in the first, I see almost no reason to get excited about his chances whatsoever. Hopkins outclasses him 99 times out of 100 imo.
I agree, one of my criticisms of Green is he is or was a little wooden in his approach, almost predictable, Beyer out boxed him in the second fight with a masterful display of boxing and Green never had a plan B. From what i have seen of Green recently he has learned a lot from those defeats to Beyer and Mundine. I think Hopkins would find a way of beating him, it just might be a little more difficult than he thinks. Green is twice the fighter he was 3-4 years ago. We may never know and judging by some of the comments about Green on this thread, people are still afraid of the unknown!
What unknown? I seen over 15 of Danny Green fights. It's not hard to see what to expect. He's a stronger fighter with a big punch. Not more. The fact that a shot Roy Jones is his biggest win say it all. It's unacceptable for a fighter 2 lose to both Anthony Mundine and Markus Beyer and think he's a good fighter. Maybe a lose to one can be excused. But to lose to both is unacceptable.
True and its a reflection of the state of Australian boxing :embarassed: when everyones hopes gets pinned on a fighter such as the case with Danny Green now.
The crowds of general public in the venue and in all pubs watching all over Aust shows how hungry all the normal punters are for a Champion to rise.
Boxing is far from dead here but many dudes are under some false illusion as to what is great and what isnt.
Re: Mundine thrown out of Green party!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
I agree, one of my criticisms of Green is he is or was a little wooden in his approach, almost predictable, Beyer out boxed him in the second fight with a masterful display of boxing and Green never had a plan B. From what i have seen of Green recently he has learned a lot from those defeats to Beyer and Mundine. I think Hopkins would find a way of beating him, it just might be a little more difficult than he thinks. Green is twice the fighter he was 3-4 years ago. We may never know and judging by some of the comments about Green on this thread, people are still afraid of the unknown!
What unknown? I seen over 15 of Danny Green fights. It's not hard to see what to expect. He's a stronger fighter with a big punch. Not more. The fact that a shot Roy Jones is his biggest win say it all. It's unacceptable for a fighter 2 lose to both Anthony Mundine and Markus Beyer and think he's a good fighter. Maybe a lose to one can be excused. But to lose to both is unacceptable.
True and its a reflection of the state of Australian boxing :embarassed: when everyones hopes gets pinned on a fighter such as the case with Danny Green now.
The crowds of general public in the venue and in all pubs watching all over Aust shows how hungry all the normal punters are for a Champion to rise.
Boxing is far from dead here but many dudes are under some false illusion as to what is great and what isnt.
Agree, the real fans know the score, the general publice get caught up on the hyperbole about having a Great in their midst etc, to be fair to green he hasn't been the one blowing his trumpet .
A Hopkins fight would sell out here no problem , they could probably have a stadium fight. The hype will sell the fight to the Aussie public. Hopkins just won't come here to Europe.;D
