Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mnmc10
hornfinger,
you hate pac so your opinions and views are different, to you he lost both fights with jmm but to many and most importantly on his record he beat him.
to you hatton and cotto are beat up wasted talents that anyone can cherry pick. well guess what? MOST doesnt think the same.
he dodged the ped test yes, is he automatically guilty of using? no!
you hate pac what can we do? one things for sure,
pac doesnt need to please YOU anyway! :)
I hate any world class athlete that behaves in a shady non transparent way.
I know I have a point cuz the only come back a pac nut hugger has is to just brand me a pac hater. There is no come back to the facts.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
What's been going on with this Pacman situation is the same damn thing that happens when some batshit insane preacher starts shooting his mouth off about how Hurricane Katrina was sent by god to destroy the city of New Orleans because he hates riverboat gambling. All this has done for Manny (and Floyd) is pull his supporters closer to him and push his detractors farther away. So in short, the people who love him now love him more...and the people who hate him...well you get it. It all evens out. No harm done long term.
I have to beg to differ there.. As I said above, I was a giant Manny fan, but this crap didn't bring me any closer to him, or make me dislike Floyd any more.. It's just two guys with their heads so far up their asses that we as paying boxing fans miss out on something grand.. You don't see this sh!t from young up and coming hungry boxers.. You see it from rich diva's who can take or leave possibly the biggest paying fight in history... How 'bout giving back to the fans who have supported them from the bottom to the top...
what happened didn't endear pacquiao to me too. imo he should've just accepted the 14-day window and throw the ball back in mayweather's court, but he acted like a diva the same as floyd who should have accepted the 24 days (14 days and 24 days, what's the difference?), so many are pissed that the fight didn't materialize. totally agree about giving back to the fans which should be the case. long time ago pacquiao would have accepted any conditions for even a fraction of what he would've gotten in this fight, so i guess his status has somewhat gone to his head. members of pac's team really made a mess of the whole thing with different statements and reasons that came out. for the record, pac never said he's afraid of needles. he just doesn't like blood taken from him too close to the fight because he feels it weakens him. yes, pac's reputation has taken some hit but nothing really serious unless something comes out that would prove he's really into peds. and, 15rounder's statement about pac's supporters and detractors is only true of nuthuggers and haters.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KKisser
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
What's been going on with this Pacman situation is the same damn thing that happens when some batshit insane preacher starts shooting his mouth off about how Hurricane Katrina was sent by god to destroy the city of New Orleans because he hates riverboat gambling. All this has done for Manny (and Floyd) is pull his supporters closer to him and push his detractors farther away. So in short, the people who love him now love him more...and the people who hate him...well you get it. It all evens out. No harm done long term.
I have to beg to differ there.. As I said above, I was a giant Manny fan, but this crap didn't bring me any closer to him, or make me dislike Floyd any more.. It's just two guys with their heads so far up their asses that we as paying boxing fans miss out on something grand.. You don't see this sh!t from young up and coming hungry boxers.. You see it from rich diva's who can take or leave possibly the biggest paying fight in history... How 'bout giving back to the fans who have supported them from the bottom to the top...
what happened didn't endear pacquiao to me. imo he should've just accepted the 14-day window and throw the ball back in mayweather's court, but he acted like a diva the same as floyd who should have accepted the 24 days (14 days and 24 days, what's the difference?), so many are pissed that the fight didn't materialize. totally agree about giving back to the fans which should be the case. long time ago pacquiao would have accepted any conditions for even a fraction of what he would've gotten in this fight, so i guess his status has somewhat gone to his head. members of pac's team really made a mess of the whole thing with different statements and reasons that came out. for the record, pac never said he's afraid of needles. he just doesn't like blood taken from him too close to the fight because he feels it weakens him.
yes, pac's reputation has taken some hit but nothing really serious unless something comes out that would prove he's really into peds. and, 15rounder's statement about pac's supporters and detractors is only true of nuthuggers and haters.
I disagree, I think his rep has taken a horrible hit and it won't come back. Unless he can prove himself a decent kind of guy then he has screwed his entire career. We can all say it will just go away, but I am not going away and I will speak exactly what I feel as will others too. It's easy to say "Ooh the judges say he beat Marquez in the second fight" as well. Sorry, it's just not reality. I like the fact that people on this forum can actually think critically and I like the fact that Manny is being given no easy pass.
Look at the votes, Manny's rep has taken a severe hit and I will do the same poll several years later and let the facts speak for themselves. Opinions won't change, unless Manny fights Floyd and allows random testing.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
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Originally Posted by
Chino
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but here in the philippines it didnt affected pacs stature. oh yes not at all! people here think that pbf made too many excuses and thought the if pbf really wanted it then he should accept whatever pac presented on the table
Imagine, the first Asian to do something outstanding in boxing and from the Phils, of course the country will back him up. I was going to ask if news, magazines, etc. have question Pac for all his suspicions with the blood tests, the contradicting excuses, taking on a warm-up lesser opponent (Clottey) compared to Floyd, etc. or is everybody blinding themselves to that possibility? Has anybody in the Filipino media said something about it? In Mexico I see it common for the media to praise but also critique their athletes pretty bad.
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i also saw in the news that even foreign fans still line up to meet pac. its as if nothing happened!
People still line up to meet Mike Tyson regardless of his behavior outside the ring.
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Floyd Mayweather doesnt wanna fight manny, thats clear for all to see. He used the argument to rile his way out of the fight because i honestly believe floyd mayweather doesnt believe he can beat manny pacquiao
Agreeing to all of Pac's and Roach's rules doesn't seem like something a boxer would do to rile his way out of a fight. Refusing to only one simple rule that asked for random blood testing does seem like it and that is what Pac did.
And before someone says "Oh, its about ego, Pac, his team, and Roach, don't want to obey Floyd's rule" well, ego had nothing to do with Floyd agreeing to all of their ridiculous rules and all he did was ask for only one: random blood tests. Are there any more excuses for not agreeing for the random blood test?
I just find it funny that you are condemning an alleged cheater in Pac, but have a signature of Margarito beating up Cotto, who many believed probably loaded up his gloves in that fight.;D
I love the irony here. hehehe
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KKisser
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
I have to beg to differ there.. As I said above, I was a giant Manny fan, but this crap didn't bring me any closer to him, or make me dislike Floyd any more.. It's just two guys with their heads so far up their asses that we as paying boxing fans miss out on something grand.. You don't see this sh!t from young up and coming hungry boxers.. You see it from rich diva's who can take or leave possibly the biggest paying fight in history... How 'bout giving back to the fans who have supported them from the bottom to the top...
what happened didn't endear pacquiao to me. imo he should've just accepted the 14-day window and throw the ball back in mayweather's court, but he acted like a diva the same as floyd who should have accepted the 24 days (14 days and 24 days, what's the difference?), so many are pissed that the fight didn't materialize. totally agree about giving back to the fans which should be the case. long time ago pacquiao would have accepted any conditions for even a fraction of what he would've gotten in this fight, so i guess his status has somewhat gone to his head. members of pac's team really made a mess of the whole thing with different statements and reasons that came out. for the record, pac never said he's afraid of needles. he just doesn't like blood taken from him too close to the fight because he feels it weakens him.
yes, pac's reputation has taken some hit but nothing really serious unless something comes out that would prove he's really into peds. and, 15rounder's statement about pac's supporters and detractors is only true of nuthuggers and haters.
I disagree, I think his rep has taken a horrible hit and it won't come back. Unless he can prove himself a decent kind of guy then he has screwed his entire career. We can all say it will just go away, but I am not going away and I will speak exactly what I feel as will others too. It's easy to say "Ooh the judges say he beat Marquez in the second fight" as well. Sorry, it's just not reality. I like the fact that people on this forum can actually think critically and I like the fact that Manny is being given no easy pass.
Look at the votes, Manny's rep has taken a severe hit and I will do the same poll several years later and let the facts speak for themselves. Opinions won't change, unless Manny fights Floyd and allows random testing.
Maybe you're right, maybe not. The success (or failure) of the Pacquiao-Clottey fight will give as an idea on how much damage was done to Manny's reputation. Until then, the only thing we can do is debate it back and forth without any real winners.
With regards to both Pacquiao-Marquez fight, I had no clear winner in mind after the last round ended. It was really very close and I would not complain if either of them won. It just happened that the opinions that mattered most are those of the judges. In the Pacquiao-Morales I, even though it wasn't a total domination, it's obvious that Erik was the better man that night.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
I would say it has taken a big hit for me. Not even so much the whole PED fiasco, but also with his prima-donna like demands. Back in the day, when the legends like Duran, SRR, SRL, Armstrong, ect ect moved up in weight, they fought AT THAT WEIGHT. SRL didn't demand Hagler weight in at 156 or some shit. Neither did Hearns, or any other legend I can think of. These demands for "catch weights", ie making guys like Cotto and ESPECIALLY DLH kill themselves a bit more before the fight really made me stop liking the guy. Then for him to duck out of the Floyd fight and come up with lame, bullshit excuses about why he couldn't take the drug test just sealed the deal for me.
He was ranked #1 at WW, yet the only guy he ever beat at WW was ODLH.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Floyd Mayweather doesnt wanna fight manny, thats clear for all to see. He used the argument to rile his way out of the fight because i honestly believe floyd mayweather doesnt believe he can beat manny pacquiao.
You're nuts if you think Floyd doesn't believe he can beat Pac. Completely nuts.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
It's taken a hit with everybody I know.
It's taken a hit with the average fan, just like Teddy Atlas said.
In today's world, you tell an average person someone would rather throw away $25 million because he won't take a random blood test & i guarantee that person says he has something to hide.
Most people don't read the boxing sites. Most sports fans watch ESPN & ESPN has painted Pacquiao in a negative way so far.
So while a few thousand have read that Pacquiao doesn't want to give Mayweather the upperhand in negotiating, so he refused to give in on the testing window. Millions see the story on ESPN as Pacquiao refuses a random blood test.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I would say it has taken a big hit for me. Not even so much the whole PED fiasco, but also with his prima-donna like demands. Back in the day, when the legends like Duran, SRR, SRL, Armstrong, ect ect moved up in weight, they fought AT THAT WEIGHT. SRL didn't demand Hagler weight in at 156 or some shit. Neither did Hearns, or any other legend I can think of. These demands for "catch weights", ie making guys like Cotto and ESPECIALLY DLH kill themselves a bit more before the fight really made me stop liking the guy. Then for him to duck out of the Floyd fight and come up with lame, bullshit excuses about why he couldn't take the drug test just sealed the deal for me.
He was ranked #1 at WW, yet the only guy he ever beat at WW was ODLH.
Sugar Ray Leonard did demand catchweights, as he made Donny Lalonde come down to 168 from 175 and completely drained him of weight. The guy is my favourite fighter of all time, but he was the king of this diva bullshit. In fact, both Sugar Rays were well-known for being divas about making fights and only doing so when it suited them once they were the man on top.
Anyway I agree, his rep has taken a big hit. Like others have said, the mainstream boxing press has been on his side, partly because it continues to play the 'good guy' card, as well as the media influence of Arum. However, the wider sports press and the casual fans (ie not those who post on forums) all seem to think he's on something.
At the end of the day, they're the ones who fighters are reliant on for PPVs. His legacy will probably be fine though, because that tends to be defined by the hardcore fans.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
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I just find it funny that you are condemning an alleged cheater in Pac, but have a signature of Margarito beating up Cotto, who many believed probably loaded up his gloves in that fight.
I love the irony here. Hehehe
I am a fan of different boxers but I don't blind myself from what they have done wrong. Margarito was caught in the process of cheating and I have already expressed how dissapointed I am about it so, as I have said in other threads, makes me wonder about his past accomplishments. If I was a nuthuger I would defend him blindly all the way to the end. There are differences between being a fan and a nuthugger.
Anyways, now go back to what I mentioned about Pac and tell me what you think.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I would say it has taken a big hit for me. Not even so much the whole PED fiasco, but also with his prima-donna like demands. Back in the day, when the legends like Duran, SRR, SRL, Armstrong, ect ect moved up in weight, they fought AT THAT WEIGHT. SRL didn't demand Hagler weight in at 156 or some shit. Neither did Hearns, or any other legend I can think of. These demands for "catch weights", ie making guys like Cotto and ESPECIALLY DLH kill themselves a bit more before the fight really made me stop liking the guy. Then for him to duck out of the Floyd fight and come up with lame, bullshit excuses about why he couldn't take the drug test just sealed the deal for me.
He was ranked #1 at WW, yet the only guy he ever beat at WW was ODLH.
Sugar Ray Leonard did demanded catchweights. He also made many demands in the Marvin Hagler fight, smaller rings, smaller gloves, only 12 rounds instead of 15, for Marvin Haglers middelweight titles.
Many hardcore boxing fans still remember those conditions he demanded of Hagler, not to mentioned his pitty pat punches to try to steal rounds with 10 seconds left in every round.
ANy boxing diva today pale in comparison.
Don't ever call Leonard a warrior like Hagler, Duran, etc.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
20, 9 and 11.
years into the future. Only articles from respected columnist will mater.
Roy Jones tested positive.
Mosley admitted in taking ROids.
Its not even comparable Pac never tested positive.
yeah yeah who in their right mind would refuse between 30 to 40 million dollars? Maybe someone who is already living like a king and already have Millions of dollars in his bank account.
Fucking contradictions from idiots.
Manny didnt beat nobody Oscar was drained, Cotto was this Hatton was that yaddi yaddi and for good measure Pac is on roids!! :confused:
Truth hurts don't it....
(where's my contradiction?)
But your right journos won't be able to write in articles that pac tested positive......
Is that because Pac always ducked the tests?..... hmmmm
Pac beating just worthless opponents simply means pac is not that good and he only looks spectacular because of the opponents.
Now implying that he was on roids means he has accomplished great and unbelievable things in the ring like beating bigger elite fighters.
I would think that it is a contradiction You either believe that PAC beat worthless opponents OR you believe that he's roiding.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
miles,
pac won the first jmm fight but only got a draw cause a judge mis scored the 3 kds. arent you aware of that? on the second fight, anyone can get the win. if you backtrack my posts i believe that jmm has pacs number and i wouldnt be surprised if jmm won that fight.
any boxer should please the fans, without us they wont earn anything. but what im trying to explain is that pac doesnt need to please a person who obviously hates him. for heavens sake he doesnt even know us personally! you guys can hate all you want cause he doesnt really care.
"You used the word "We" and that really indicates some kind of mass produced cyborg Pac hugger clone army at work. It's hilarious, but also quite sad too."
yes i said "WE" cause he really has a lot of fans, aint that obvious? here in saddo haters might outnumber pacfans but this forum is not the real world man wake up!
and for the record, i hate pac now cause he refused to take the tests. i wanted him to prove himself that he is clean. from my understanding and rumors here in the philippines its not really pac who decides, its his team.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mnmc10
miles,
pac won the first jmm fight but only got a draw cause a judge mis scored the 3 kds. arent you aware of that? on the second fight, anyone can get the win. if you backtrack my posts i believe that jmm has pacs number and i wouldnt be surprised if jmm won that fight.
any boxer should please the fans, without us they wont earn anything. but what im trying to explain is that pac doesnt need to please a person who obviously hates him. for heavens sake he doesnt even know us personally! you guys can hate all you want cause he doesnt really care.
"You used the word "We" and that really indicates some kind of mass produced cyborg Pac hugger clone army at work. It's hilarious, but also quite sad too."
yes i said "WE" cause he really has a lot of fans, aint that obvious? here in saddo haters might outnumber pacfans but this forum is not the real world man wake up!
and for the record, i hate pac now cause he refused to take the tests. i wanted him to prove himself that he is clean. from my understanding and rumors here in the philippines its not really pac who decides, its his team.
I am quite aware of the scorecards in both fights, but that doesn't mean I need to agree with them.
Manny might have a lot of fans and his style makes him exciting, but only the brain dead can fail to have been turned off by his recent antics. It isn't hating to want a superfight to happen and it isn't hating to want a top level fighter to do everything in his power to make it happen. Manny has let down everybody in this regard including his doe-eyed fans.
And what do you mean when you say this forum isn't the real world? I absolutely refuse to believe this wild allegation. :-X;D
Anyway, apologies for being a little strong in my original posting.
Re: Has Manny Paquiao's reputation taken a serious hit as a result of recent goings o
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Floyd Mayweather doesnt wanna fight manny, thats clear for all to see. He used the argument to rile his way out of the fight because i honestly believe floyd mayweather doesnt believe he can beat manny pacquiao.
You're nuts if you think Floyd doesn't believe he can beat Pac. Completely nuts.
Somewhat agree with HTH here. Dont believe he outright chickened out, but if we are to use the 'black & white' only view of some Pac detractors then we could ask 'why would a guy turn down $40mil against a guy who he says he could beat easily, peds or no peds'.
Personally I think both guys had reservations and pretty much worked together to screw it up, Pac had to fight in March at latest when Roach said after Cotto they needed more time for Floyd. And I think Floyd believes Pac is a threat to his unbeaten record he's worked so hard on over many years. We should be on both their asses to make sure it does happen by years end, instead of taking sides.
