I am F**KING ashamed of some people here and their Valero comments!!!!

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Take a chill pill Daxx. I don't agree with the jokes & the reactions of a lot of people, but the fact is there's nothing we can do about it. People are always going to feel strongly about the issue of murdering women, hell look at what people give Mayweather despite the fact there's no evidence of him actually hitting women other than boxingscene hearsay.

It's just not worth getting worked up about what people say on boxing forums. If anything I find the comments about 'I want to see a film made out of this', 'I wish he'd lived so I could read his book' or 'I really wanted to see him fight Pac' far worse, as they show a total disassociation from the fact that two people have lost their lives.

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I'm actually in agreement with all three of those points. Be honest would you boycott the film or the fight if he had lived and it was somehow made?

Probably several thousand people have died since I started writing this reply, many tragically. Just being aware of one doesn't make it any worse really.

And you really can't base whether someone is disassociated from reality on what they post on a Saddo boxing wall.

In psychological terms, you are guilty of making the Fundamental Attribution Error, which is a word used by people like me to sound clever and a know it all.

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I agree people would of still gone to his fights, Tony Ayala who was a rapist scumbag. When he got out of prison people cheered him vs Yori Boy Campas, i know murdering someone is worse. But i wouldn't say Rape is far off, considering the victim is scarred for life.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Take a chill pill Daxx. I don't agree with the jokes & the reactions of a lot of people, but the fact is there's nothing we can do about it. People are always going to feel strongly about the issue of murdering women, hell look at what people give Mayweather despite the fact there's no evidence of him actually hitting women other than boxingscene hearsay.

It's just not worth getting worked up about what people say on boxing forums. If anything I find the comments about 'I want to see a film made out of this', 'I wish he'd lived so I could read his book' or 'I really wanted to see him fight Pac' far worse, as they show a total disassociation from the fact that two people have lost their lives.

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I'm actually in agreement with all three of those points. Be honest would you boycott the film or the fight if he had lived and it was somehow made?

Probably several thousand people have died since I started writing this reply, many tragically. Just being aware of one doesn't make it any worse really.

And you really can't base whether someone is disassociated from reality on what they post on a Saddo boxing wall.

In psychological terms, you are guilty of making the Fundamental Attribution Error, which is a word used by people like me to sound clever and a know it all.

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Now Bilbo we both know how withdrawn from reality I think you are ;)

I just think it's sad that somebody's prime concern on hearing of someone's death is that they don't get to see a film out of it. It doesn't anger me or anything, I just think it's kind of pathetic that is what somebody cares about.

Anyway, quiet hobbit, shouldn't you be posting videos of gangland hits for me to abuse you over? ;D

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Take a chill pill Daxx. I don't agree with the jokes & the reactions of a lot of people, but the fact is there's nothing we can do about it. People are always going to feel strongly about the issue of murdering women, hell look at what people give Mayweather despite the fact there's no evidence of him actually hitting women other than boxingscene hearsay.

It's just not worth getting worked up about what people say on boxing forums. If anything I find the comments about 'I want to see a film made out of this', 'I wish he'd lived so I could read his book' or 'I really wanted to see him fight Pac' far worse, as they show a total disassociation from the fact that two people have lost their lives.

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I'm actually in agreement with all three of those points. Be honest would you boycott the film or the fight if he had lived and it was somehow made?

Probably several thousand people have died since I started writing this reply, many tragically. Just being aware of one doesn't make it any worse really.

And you really can't base whether someone is disassociated from reality on what they post on a Saddo boxing wall.

In psychological terms, you are guilty of making the Fundamental Attribution Error, which is a word used by people like me to sound clever and a know it all.

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Didn't you once pull me up, in a celebrity death thread, for making a similar comment about 6000 kids dying everyday because of a lack of clean water :-\

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Take a chill pill Daxx. I don't agree with the jokes & the reactions of a lot of people, but the fact is there's nothing we can do about it. People are always going to feel strongly about the issue of murdering women, hell look at what people give Mayweather despite the fact there's no evidence of him actually hitting women other than boxingscene hearsay.

It's just not worth getting worked up about what people say on boxing forums. If anything I find the comments about 'I want to see a film made out of this', 'I wish he'd lived so I could read his book' or 'I really wanted to see him fight Pac' far worse, as they show a total disassociation from the fact that two people have lost their lives.

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I agree with what Jaz says here the comments above are really poor. But I also have a little hint of what Daxx is saying. I do find the 'rot in hell' and 'piss on his grave' statements pretty damn distasteful. I say RIP to all concerned in the events, including Valero.
Those that say 'why should we care, we didn't know him and loads of people die', well, the fact that he is someone we have followed and been aware of, including his abilities and aspirations does make it feel closer to home.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Take a chill pill Daxx. I don't agree with the jokes & the reactions of a lot of people, but the fact is there's nothing we can do about it. People are always going to feel strongly about the issue of murdering women, hell look at what people give Mayweather despite the fact there's no evidence of him actually hitting women other than boxingscene hearsay.

It's just not worth getting worked up about what people say on boxing forums. If anything I find the comments about 'I want to see a film made out of this', 'I wish he'd lived so I could read his book' or 'I really wanted to see him fight Pac' far worse, as they show a total disassociation from the fact that two people have lost their lives.

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I'm actually in agreement with all three of those points. Be honest would you boycott the film or the fight if he had lived and it was somehow made?

Probably several thousand people have died since I started writing this reply, many tragically. Just being aware of one doesn't make it any worse really.

And you really can't base whether someone is disassociated from reality on what they post on a Saddo boxing wall.

In psychological terms, you are guilty of making the Fundamental Attribution Error, which is a word used by people like me to sound clever and a know it all.

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Didn't you once pull me up, in a celebrity death thread, for making a similar comment about 6000 kids dying everyday because of a lack of clean water :-\

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I think that was when Jade Goody died and a ton of people posted that she was a worthless piece of talentless shit and that they couldn't care less that she had just died, in her twenties of cancer and left behind two kids.

I don't think anybody has posted that Mrs Valero was a worthless piece of shit and that they don't give a tupenny fuck she was murdered but if it happens you can bet I will rebuke them too :)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I am not trying to act as though we are to become bleeding hearts for the guy or even his family...But to make fucking jokes even to the slightest is wrong...Not the kind Bilbo made toward the police but the kind like I posted about using this for a headline for his upcoming fight....

To say Good for him he is dead hope he kills himself is just shit....Sure the man deserves to be punished and should have been given no mercy but taking the situation into a whole then adding things be it comments or be it bad will I mean shit....These people have families....

I think what really PISSED me off the most was the fact that when you look at the % of post and the % of people who took time to say something negative...

Out of 64 post I just counted since some people here say it is going over board no one really said anything that wrong etc...That only on 1 thread about the topic

Out of 64 post I counted 11 where anyone mentioned any type of condolence to the family or an RIP for the wife

But people took time to post

Hang on. Am I missing something here ? What's with all the RIP messages ? The FUCKA killed his wife. He should ROT IN HELL !!! The thing is, now he's probably go down as a great fighter whose career was cut short, in sort of the same way that Salvador Sanchez is. Listen - He was lucky that he never fought anyone of merit. Let's not even talk about Floyd or Manny. I think a Devon Alexander, Tim Bradley, Miguel Cotto, Zab Judah would wipe the floor with him.

He is DEAD who is wiping the floor with him?

You know what ? GOOD RIDDANCE TO HIM !! I think this is a bit different to previous boxers dying early in life (Vernon Forrest, Diego Corrales). This guy KILLED his wife. Martial rows are just routine for top sportsmen, but taking a knife and killing your wife ? F**K HIM !! May he rot in hell

Yet we have the time to make post like these? Not too mention post that have jokes about him?

One joke about why did he beat up his wife a week ago? Because she was late with his dinner!!!!

That is not fucking low?.,...A 20yr old Woman abused and then murdered by the same guy and we will make jokes like this?...It pokes fun at not only situation but Spousal Abuse as well....That is Funny?

The the balls of Bilbo to say I am like Valero because I said if the person that made the joke on how to bill Valeros next fight as something to the matter of.."Valero murders next opponent, then chokes under pressure." I would choke them if they we in front of me....Tell you what I won't choke them but I would kick their sorry asses up and down the block!!!!

Yet if a fighter from 1922 who had a 3-50 record dies of old age the place is flooded with RIP you will be missed...Even if I never heard of you?

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Daxx the thing is people are just expressing their opinions. I mean I agree with you, I think it's a tragic thing that has happened all around and I even feel for Edwin Valero, he was clearly a tortured soul, and I really doubt he had a more casual view of murder than we do, the fact he killed himself suggests he was completely fucked up.

Nobody can really judge or say what was going on in his mind, only God can judge man.


That said, people on here have a right to express their opinions. If some people think he deserves to rot in hell for what he did then that is their right.

You yourself said the hate he is getting is normally reserved for child molesters, which I guess means if someone had been found guilty of abusing a child, you would condemn them utterly and without any understanding and compassion, as would most.

That is your value judgement regarding child abuse, and clearly for many on here they attach the same value judgement to killing your wife, that's ultimately their right.

Also, and bear this in mind, you don't know the true thoughts and intentions of posters on this site either. Someone may say he deserves to rot in hell, but in actual fact, if they knew the troubles he had and had access to all the information they might feel genuine compassion for all concerned.

Don't let the postings of people on here disturb your own happiness Daxx. You are clearly a passionate guy and have strong emotions on the subject but that doesn't mean that other's are less moral, or have no empathy because of what they write on a wall.

We are all far more alike than we imagine.

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Oh I agree and I am not going to lose sleep over it...I stated my opp on it and thats that...I am not going to hold a grudge against anyone for what they said...My thing is that it is just wrong...I would have said the same thing if it was people here or someone in the supermarket I overheard saying the same thing....

It does not matter that it was Valero...Has to do with the situation....In truth if this was one guy who killed another though I would not have made jokes or comments i could have cared less what are you going to do...

Just this is a situation where a Woman was abused, murdered and left behind a family not too mention children.....Does this happen all the time? Yes sadly enough it does....If the same tackless comments were made about John Smith and jane Smith I would feel the same way.....

Like I said I see people here posting RIP with tear smilies about fighters who dies they never even heard of or seen and they make comments like some of the ones I posted?

Low Class and Sad...

I'm imagining I'm Valero's brother for instance. I'm thinking of the utter anger and revulsion that I would feel at what he did, but also about that gut churning overwhemling agony that I'd have about what became of my brother. I'm imagining feeling that and then reading some of the comments on here. Thats why I agree with some of what Daxx says.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I'm actually in agreement with all three of those points. Be honest would you boycott the film or the fight if he had lived and it was somehow made?

Probably several thousand people have died since I started writing this reply, many tragically. Just being aware of one doesn't make it any worse really.

And you really can't base whether someone is disassociated from reality on what they post on a Saddo boxing wall.

In psychological terms, you are guilty of making the Fundamental Attribution Error, which is a word used by people like me to sound clever and a know it all.

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Didn't you once pull me up, in a celebrity death thread, for making a similar comment about 6000 kids dying everyday because of a lack of clean water :-\

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I think that was when Jade Goody died and a ton of people posted that she was a worthless piece of talentless shit and that they couldn't care less that she had just died, in her twenties of cancer and left behind two kids.

I don't think anybody has posted that Mrs Valero was a worthless piece of shit and that they don't give a tupenny fuck she was murdered but if it happens you can bet I will rebuke them too :)

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We agreed on the Jade Goody thread. I didn't like all the middle-class "educated" guys calling her low-life scum who didn't deserve her fortune.

At one time you definitely questioned my 6000 daily dead kids rant though.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

I'm imagining I'm Valero's brother for instance. I'm thinking of the utter anger and revulsion that I would feel at what he did, but also about that gut churning overwhemling agony that I'd have about what became of my brother. I'm imagining feeling that and then reading some of the comments on here. Thats why I agree with some of what Daxx says.

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Thank you, Mr De Niro ;D

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Originally Posted by Fenster

No, I think we agreed on that Jade Goody thread. I took offense at all the middle-class "educated" guys calling her low-life scum who didn't deserve her fortune.

At one time you definitely questioned my 6000 daily dead kids rant though.

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If that was Miles, you've got it wrong. He's from 'da ghetto'.

Well I have been thinking since the news this morning what a great piece of journalism could be made out this. Seriously it doesn't show disconnect to want the story to be explained a bit more. Like it or not, in Venezuela this will be a story of a tragic hero who couldn't get past his own personal demons. A lot can be learned of stories like this, there's no reason why a movie, film, magazine ect. couldn't delve deeper into this without remaining sensitive to what happened.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by ryanman

I'm imagining I'm Valero's brother for instance. I'm thinking of the utter anger and revulsion that I would feel at what he did, but also about that gut churning overwhemling agony that I'd have about what became of my brother. I'm imagining feeling that and then reading some of the comments on here. Thats why I agree with some of what Daxx says.

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Thank you, Mr De Niro ;D

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You talking ta me?
;D

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Fenster

No, I think we agreed on that Jade Goody thread. I took offense at all the middle-class "educated" guys calling her low-life scum who didn't deserve her fortune.

At one time you definitely questioned my 6000 daily dead kids rant though.

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If that was Miles, you've got it wrong. He's from 'da ghetto'.

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Yeah he was a ' stone-cold playa' back in the day don't you know?

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

IF YOU WERE IN FRONT OF ME I WOULD CHOKE YOU!!!!!

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:smilie_whisper: We all have to keep close reigns on what we think or eventually circumstances can bring them out of us for real.

From my point of view Velero became obsessed, then was maybe even possessed: The stages can be seen.
He couldnt watch what he was thinking any longer and his own story took him over.
Through his lack of compassion towards others. His demon won, nurtured an internal story to blame all his pains onto someone else. Then the story took him over and made it his story and history.

Happens alot when our minds can no longer reel in our own emotions we search outside for the cause and then we blame.

You have to let some things just go Daxx.

All people react in different ways some can only deal with it by allowing themselves to search for a funny side.

Others go into depression, others get drunk,others get obsessed by it and have to know every inch of it.

Finding wrong in others is the real issue here, I think it is the root of what caused him to do what he did. If we blame our pains on external causes we can remain victims of them. If we say instead that we are allowing external things to effect us (then we get our power back to be able to do something about our position in it). Theres a big difference in those two ways and none of us are taught them. Which is wrong ! So Im off to kill a few parents and teachers...

No Im not, Im going to remain very calm and smile at the obvious trap I could of fallen into and not join the millions in the world that do.

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Originally Posted by amat

Well I have been thinking since the news this morning what a great piece of journalism could be made out this. Seriously it doesn't show disconnect to want the story to be explained a bit more. Like it or not, in Venezuela this will be a story of a tragic hero who couldn't get past his own personal demons. A lot can be learned of stories like this, there's no reason why a movie, film, magazine ect. couldn't delve deeper into this without remaining sensitive to what happened.

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So who would you pick to play Valero? I think if they wanted to make the audience have sympathy for Edwin Valero his wife needs to be played by Renee Zelwegger.

@Daxx mate, you made me lol at the 'you be exactly the same if you overheard someone at a supermarket. Just in case it happens, it wouldn't be a good idea to go up to total strangers and lambast them, please think first before you do it :D