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Yeah, I had Froch winning by a couple of rounds against Kessler. But, like you, I had Dirrell beating him so I feel, if nothing else, his record is accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
I think CFH had Froch beating Kessler, as did i I. I'm glad more people are seeing the light. Having said that, i had Dirrell biking his way to a UD against Froch so it's evened itself up.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I do in Pascal's case. He's said as much himself. They've also trained/sparred together since their fight, so they seem to feel that they learn a lot by beating on each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoDo you buy into stuff like that? I always think Pascal will struggle with someone who constantly opens up on him. Dawson could have had him out of there in the 11th if he'd have been smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHQuote:
Originally Posted by onoIf he was, wouldn't he have beaten Froch when they fought? Surely Froch's wins over Dirrell, Taylor and Abraham are better than or at least as good as Pascal's wins over Diaconu (x2) and an upset win over Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo pascal beating dawson is better than Froch beating pascal? SillllllllyyyyyyyQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
The Froch fight made Pascal the fighter he is today. He's a much better fighter now than he was then.
I rate Pascal but i see absolutely nothing to suggest he'd get any closer to beating Froch than he did 2 years ago. Only my opinion though mate.
I don't know if he would beat Froch if they fought again, they've both grown as fighters since then, but I'd love to see the fight.
Yeah that is true. It was one hell of a fight. I wouldn't mind watching it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI do in Pascal's case. He's said as much himself. They've also trained/sparred together since their fight, so they seem to feel that they learn a lot by beating on each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoDo you buy into stuff like that? I always think Pascal will struggle with someone who constantly opens up on him. Dawson could have had him out of there in the 11th if he'd have been smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHQuote:
Originally Posted by onoIf he was, wouldn't he have beaten Froch when they fought? Surely Froch's wins over Dirrell, Taylor and Abraham are better than or at least as good as Pascal's wins over Diaconu (x2) and an upset win over Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo pascal beating dawson is better than Froch beating pascal? SillllllllyyyyyyyQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
The Froch fight made Pascal the fighter he is today. He's a much better fighter now than he was then.
I rate Pascal but i see absolutely nothing to suggest he'd get any closer to beating Froch than he did 2 years ago. Only my opinion though mate.
I don't know if he would beat Froch if they fought again, they've both grown as fighters since then, but I'd love to see the fight.
Who has a better resume Ward or Froch?
Hard one that as Ward beat Kessler and he beat Froch depends how you look at it I think the Pascal win in hindsight is better than the Kessler win as Kessler has never been the outright champ and Pascal is now the man at 175, Kessler has never been p4p top ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
It is all opinions but fight by fight Froch Resume is much better but the crucial win is Wards v Kessler many thought Kessler was the number 1 when Ward beat him.
I think Froch has a very good case to be above Martinez
does beating Paul Williams at middleweight make you so highly rated p4p? a paul williams who made his name at welterweight?
Paul Williams made his name in defeating Antonio Margarito (147) Vernon Phillips (154), Winky Wright (160), and Sergio Martinez (160). He's been dominant in all three weight divisions. Probably moreso even above 147. I think he's best at 154. That may be just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Wins over Kelly Pavlik and Paul Williams will make Sergio fighter of the year.
Depending on how Pascal does against Hopkins imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratPaul Williams made his name in defeating Antonio Margarito (147) Vernon Phillips (154), Winky Wright (160), and Sergio Martinez (160). He's been dominant in all three weight divisions. Probably moreso even above 147. I think he's best at 154. That may be just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Wins over Kelly Pavlik and Paul Williams will make Sergio fighter of the year.
On paper it's Froch, but when you watch the fights I think it's pretty clear that Ward is more impressive. Froch has a win over Dirrell but it's not actually a win in my opinion. In fact I thought it was the biggest robbery of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
As for my P4P list.
1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Bradley
4. Ward
5. Martinez
6. Marquez
7. JML
8. Bute
9. Montiel
10. Froch
That's who I think the best fighters are, I don't rely nearly as much as others on resume. Everything looks the same on paper but to put Froch at 10 is a GIANT GIANT GIANT GIANT step for me and evidence that he has proved me a lot more then just a little bit wrong.
I agree with that definitely, aside from Froch's last fight. Before he was just far too risky and it seemed like he could be knocked out anytime with his low hands and batterings he took (yet managed to endure)Quote:
Originally Posted by amatOn paper it's Froch, but when you watch the fights I think it's pretty clear that Ward is more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Can't wait for Froch Ward when it happens ;D I hope Hennessy sorts himself and makes it available on TV too.
Yeh I kinda see it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
My take
Very sloppy against Pascal - but excellent heart and great win
Lost the first 35 and a half minuted to Taylor (fair play for getting him out of there though)
Lost to Dirrell
Lost to Kessler
Superb disciplined performance against AA
I am going to watch the Kessler fight today, becuase a lot of people think Froch could've nicked that, but I had Kessler a clear winner (when watching on live stream) So maybe I was wrong :-\
he lost to williams tooQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratPaul Williams made his name in defeating Antonio Margarito (147) Vernon Phillips (154), Winky Wright (160), and Sergio Martinez (160). He's been dominant in all three weight divisions. Probably moreso even above 147. I think he's best at 154. That may be just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Wins over Kelly Pavlik and Paul Williams will make Sergio fighter of the year.
are these two victories better than taylor, abraham, dirrell, pascal? i dont think so
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HYeh I kinda see it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
My take
Very sloppy against Pascal - but excellent heart and great win
Lost the first 35 and a half minuted to Taylor (fair play for getting him out of there though)
Lost to Dirrell
Lost to Kessler
Superb disciplined performance against AA
I am going to watch the Kessler fight today, becuase a lot of people think Froch could've nicked that, but I had Kessler a clear winner (when watching on live stream) So maybe I was wrong :-\
his win against passcal was quite convincing in the end, yes he had little deffence but he took over in the second half of a fantastic fight and you couldnt really argue that it could have gone the other way
He beat dirrell, i dont want to get into that argument tho because I think the fight should have been stopped by 6 rounds, dirrell was far far far too deffensive and too unwilling to fight to have any chance of winning the fight, the right man won
I think he beat kessler by a couple to 3 rounds, when you watch the fight concentrate on kessler for the first 5 rounds, i dont think in that time he lands a punch of any note where froch catches him a fair few times. I think froch finishes stronger too, they showed the last 4 rounds on saturday night before the AA fight and kes probably won the 12th and thats it
and yep he was losing to Taylor by quite a margin
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatOn paper it's Froch, but when you watch the fights I think it's pretty clear that Ward is more impressive. Froch has a win over Dirrell but it's not actually a win in my opinion. In fact I thought it was the biggest robbery of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
As for my P4P list.
1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Bradley
4. Ward
5. Martinez
6. Marquez
7. JML
8. Bute
9. Montiel
10. Froch
That's who I think the best fighters are, I don't rely nearly as much as others on resume. Everything looks the same on paper but to put Froch at 10 is a GIANT GIANT GIANT GIANT step for me and evidence that he has proved me a lot more then just a little bit wrong.
This pretty much sums it up for me, and bar one or two changes, this is pretty similar to my Top 10.
1. Floyd Mayweather Jr
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Sergio Martinez
5. Andre Ward
6. Fernando Montiel
7. Juan Manuel Lopez
8. Tim Bradley
9. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
10. Devon Alexander
I've got Alexander in there ahead of Froch because I felt he just edged Kotelnik (not a popular opinion I know) & looking over their last 3 fights I felt that Froch lost to both Dirrell (by some distance) & Kessler (close), while Alexander's win over Urango remains the performance that probably shocked me more than any other this year. In fact there are probably one or two other guys I'd have in there ahead of him still.
I suppose I should get the Pound for Pound voting back up but I'll most likely do it in the new year as there's just too little time for me right now with work & training.
Alexander? :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinQuote:
Originally Posted by amatOn paper it's Froch, but when you watch the fights I think it's pretty clear that Ward is more impressive. Froch has a win over Dirrell but it's not actually a win in my opinion. In fact I thought it was the biggest robbery of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
As for my P4P list.
1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Bradley
4. Ward
5. Martinez
6. Marquez
7. JML
8. Bute
9. Montiel
10. Froch
That's who I think the best fighters are, I don't rely nearly as much as others on resume. Everything looks the same on paper but to put Froch at 10 is a GIANT GIANT GIANT GIANT step for me and evidence that he has proved me a lot more then just a little bit wrong.
This pretty much sums it up for me, and bar one or two changes, this is pretty similar to my Top 10.
1. Floyd Mayweather Jr
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Sergio Martinez
5. Andre Ward
6. Fernando Montiel
7. Juan Manuel Lopez
8. Tim Bradley
9. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
10. Devon Alexander
I've got Alexander in there ahead of Froch because I felt he just edged Kotelnik (not a popular opinion I know) & looking over their last 3 fights I felt that Froch lost to both Dirrell (by some distance) & Kessler (close), while Alexander's win over Urango remains the performance that probably shocked me more than any other this year. In fact there are probably one or two other guys I'd have in there ahead of him still.
I suppose I should get the Pound for Pound voting back up but I'll most likely do it in the new year as there's just too little time for me right now with work & training.
;D