Printable View
I am split on the issue:
ON one hand, it is good that they debunk shady stuff going behind the curtain like some of the Afghanistan files where they show how some massacre have been covered and denied but on the other, I think it is absolutely irresponsible to not cross mark the name of EVERY agents on the field which life can then be seriously threatened. A part is nice but the other is done irresponsibly in my opinion.
They caught him and you can be sure that his future won't be glorious at all and that he'll spend a fair time in military prison for the leak.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
I have no sympathy for him... clean your own closet and then come and clean others.
which prison? ;d :d ;dQuote:
Originally Posted by vanchilds
Interesting video on the topic
Reason.tv: Is Wikileaks a Force For Good? Four Experts on Our Wiki-Future - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
funny reading what others round the world think...just one thought, a lot of what i hear is a bit off base...true in part, but spun as to sound good
Assange about to be released in the next 5 minutes or so.
Anyone else watching the news?
I want to hear what (if anything) the slimeball has to say.
Assange's lawyer looks like the poster boy for a corrupt fat cat. Look at him!
Why do you think he is such a slimeball, Bilbo? I have been watching interviews with him and I think he carries himself very well. He is articulate and explains himself reasonably enough. He also explains Wikileaks and why they operate and also tells of their vetting process. I don't really understand why you hate him so much, but if that's how you feel then fair enough.
So he's finally being let out on bail? About time. I think all of this has only enhanced the support for Wikileaks and I think they should continue to play a valid role in the future. We need a site like this as the elites with their secrecy have only gone and brought us to war through deception and lies and the media simply lapped up government press releases instead of finding out the truth.
Wikileaks is valid and the response of some of these so called US elites has been borderline insane. Have him shot? Well, in that case let's have Bush brought in for his war crimes? The later is infinitely more reasonable.
I hate him because he is anti democratic. His site is unnacountable to anyone, they don't handle the information they given responsibiliy. He is a complete hypocritye refusing to explain his own site's finances whilst indiscriminately shining a spotlight on everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
He has betrayed his informant Bradley Manning in failing to hand over any of the promised money for his defence, even Mannin's legal team have now turned on Assange.
You cannot have diplomacy without the ability to say things in confidence, and just taking away people's ability to speak in confidence and betraying the private trust of many individuals from many countries he serves only to damage diplomatic relations between countries and risks the lives of both civilians and military personel.
He himself is unelected, unaccountable and has set himself as an almost God like,dicatatorial figure, who is not answerable to anyone. He once famously wrote 'I am the heart and soul of this organisation, its founder, its philosopher, original coder, organiser, financier and all the rest. If you have a problem with me, piss off'.
Hardly the words of a man with a commitment to democratic process.
What he is doing has nothing to do with freedom of speech. With freedom of speech comes responsibility, and accountability. You need to balance the freedom to publish and all information you like against considerations of privacy and the public interest. Assange doesn't do that. What he does is the equivilent of rifling through people's dustbins. Investigative journalists are subject to certain rules and regulations. They are responsible and accountable for the information they uncover and select to reveal. Assange is not.
He is answerable to no one, he's not elected and he does not conduct himself in a responible way.
I can't stand the man.
In his defence, a close look at the sexual allegations against him highlights the fact that he is clearly on trial for his website rather than being a rapist. Those charges are utterly ridiculous and absurd. I agree with you there is no evidence of any sexual offences being carried out by him at all. The two women both consented to have sex with him, and only cried foul when each found out he had slept with the other. I think one is suing him because he did not use a condom, and the other because he broke the condom he used with her. The two women just sound like opportunists so it was right he got bail.
But it doesn't change the fact that he is a cunt.
Bilbo, are newpapers democratic in the way that they are subservient to the large corporate backers that they have? Are newpapers democratic in the way that they will spoonfeed you government press releases as news and drum up the case for illegal and immoral wars? Are governments democratic in how they will ignore the viewpoints of the majority of the population to go to war regardless?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI hate him because he is anti democratic. His site is unnacountable to anyone, they don't handle the information they given responsibiliy. He is a complete hypocritye refusing to explain his own site's finances whilst indiscriminately shining a spotlight on everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
He has betrayed his informant Bradley Manning in failing to hand over any of the promised money for his defence, even Mannin's legal team have now turned on Assange.
You cannot have diplomacy without the ability to say things in confidence, and just taking away people's ability to speak in confidence and betraying the private trust of many individuals from many countries he serves only to damage diplomatic relations between countries and risks the lives of both civilians and military personel.
He himself is unelected, unaccountable and has set himself as an almost God like,dicatatorial figure, who is not answerable to anyone. He once famously wrote 'I am the heart and soul of this organisation, its founder, its philosopher, original coder, organiser, financier and all the rest. If you have a problem with me, piss off'.
Hardly the words of a man with a commitment to democratic process.
What he is doing has nothing to do with freedom of speech. With freedom of speech comes responsibility, and accountability. You need to balance the freedom to publish and all information you like against considerations of privacy and the public interest. Assange doesn't do that. What he does is the equivilent of rifling through people's dustbins. Investigative journalists are subject to certain rules and regulations. They are responsible and accountable for the information they uncover and select to reveal. Assange is not.
He is answerable to no one, he's not elected and he does not conduct himself in a responible way.
I can't stand the man.
In his defence, a close look at the sexual allegations against him highlights the fact that he is clearly on trial for his website rather than being a rapist. Those charges are utterly ridiculous and absurd. I agree with you there is no evidence of any sexual offences being carried out by him at all. The two women both consented to have sex with him, and only cried foul when each found out he had slept with the other. I think one is suing him because he did not use a condom, and the other because he broke the condom he used with her. The two women just sound like opportunists so it was right he got bail.
But it doesn't change the fact that he is a cunt.
In this sense Wikileaks is profoundly democratic in that they are supplying us with the truth regarding what our undemocratic governments are doing. If there was a Wikileaks when the drums of war were banging for Iraq then maybe there would have been no war. The mass secrecy and lack of democracy was what led us to these wars. The idea that Wikileaks is undemocratic is the opposite. They are telling us things that our governments will not reveal. That is democratic. It is allowing people access to the political system that the political system would otherwise deny.
He is the owner of a website, but the recent releases have been along with the Guardian and The New York Times, again...quite democratic considering it is following a media model in this instance. The information is what it is. If he was playing god then he would be altering and fabricating, but as it is these are simply documents being released as they are. And they have a vetting process to avoid harm. So far only a 1000 or so documents have been released as they continue to monitor prior to release.
He is what he is, a man on a mission to reveal the actions of dishonest government elites. There is nothing wrong with that and a great deal of good as far as I can see. The sex crimes charges are merely an attempt to divert attention. If America ever attempts to charge this man with espionage then you can say goodbye to any pretence at America even pretending to be an open democratic nation.
Fascist state 101 here we are. Try to tell the truth on the basis of someone elses leaked papers then we will have you put away, try to get on a bus and we will search your arse, corporate interests...fancy a lot of money funnelled away from the taxpayers?...here you go. Scary times!
All totally true and right here right now. Even Lyle has run scared of debating this stuff. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesBilbo, are newpapers democratic in the way that they are subservient to the large corporate backers that they have? Are newpapers democratic in the way that they will spoonfeed you government press releases as news and drum up the case for illegal and immoral wars? Are governments democratic in how they will ignore the viewpoints of the majority of the population to go to war regardless?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI hate him because he is anti democratic. His site is unnacountable to anyone, they don't handle the information they given responsibiliy. He is a complete hypocritye refusing to explain his own site's finances whilst indiscriminately shining a spotlight on everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
He has betrayed his informant Bradley Manning in failing to hand over any of the promised money for his defence, even Mannin's legal team have now turned on Assange.
You cannot have diplomacy without the ability to say things in confidence, and just taking away people's ability to speak in confidence and betraying the private trust of many individuals from many countries he serves only to damage diplomatic relations between countries and risks the lives of both civilians and military personel.
He himself is unelected, unaccountable and has set himself as an almost God like,dicatatorial figure, who is not answerable to anyone. He once famously wrote 'I am the heart and soul of this organisation, its founder, its philosopher, original coder, organiser, financier and all the rest. If you have a problem with me, piss off'.
Hardly the words of a man with a commitment to democratic process.
What he is doing has nothing to do with freedom of speech. With freedom of speech comes responsibility, and accountability. You need to balance the freedom to publish and all information you like against considerations of privacy and the public interest. Assange doesn't do that. What he does is the equivilent of rifling through people's dustbins. Investigative journalists are subject to certain rules and regulations. They are responsible and accountable for the information they uncover and select to reveal. Assange is not.
He is answerable to no one, he's not elected and he does not conduct himself in a responible way.
I can't stand the man.
In his defence, a close look at the sexual allegations against him highlights the fact that he is clearly on trial for his website rather than being a rapist. Those charges are utterly ridiculous and absurd. I agree with you there is no evidence of any sexual offences being carried out by him at all. The two women both consented to have sex with him, and only cried foul when each found out he had slept with the other. I think one is suing him because he did not use a condom, and the other because he broke the condom he used with her. The two women just sound like opportunists so it was right he got bail.
But it doesn't change the fact that he is a cunt.
In this sense Wikileaks is profoundly democratic in that they are supplying us with the truth regarding what our undemocratic governments are doing. If there was a Wikileaks when the drums of war were banging for Iraq then maybe there would have been no war. The mass secrecy and lack of democracy was what led us to these wars. The idea that Wikileaks is undemocratic is the opposite. They are telling us things that our governments will not reveal. That is democratic. It is allowing people access to the political system that the political system would otherwise deny.
He is the owner of a website, but the recent releases have been along with the Guardian and The New York Times, again...quite democratic considering it is following a media model in this instance. The information is what it is. If he was playing god then he would be altering and fabricating, but as it is these are simply documents being released as they are. And they have a vetting process to avoid harm. So far only a 1000 or so documents have been released as they continue to monitor prior to release.
He is what he is, a man on a mission to reveal the actions of dishonest government elites. There is nothing wrong with that and a great deal of good as far as I can see. The sex crimes charges are merely an attempt to divert attention. If America ever attempts to charge this man with espionage then you can say goodbye to any pretence at America even pretending to be an open democratic nation.
Fascist state 101 here we are. Try to tell the truth on the basis of someone elses leaked papers then we will have you put away, try to get on a bus and we will search your arse, corporate interests...fancy a lot of money funnelled away from the taxpayers?...here you go. Scary times!
All totally true and right here right now. Even Lyle has run scared of debating this stuff. ;D
I do definitely agree we are heading in the direction of a facist state. I mean here in the UK schools now fingerprint our primary school kids, which even the EU has told Britain we must stop doing. The ONLY time I have agreed with a directive from the EU :D
But there has to be an accountability process and the responsible handling of information. Newspapers are subjects to load of regulations, restrictions and legal process, Assange is subject to nobody.
If you have wikileaks then you cannot have diplomacy, it's as simple as that. It is essential for the running of every kind of life, public and private life, that things can be said in confidence.
I don't want to live in a facist state. But neither do I want to live in a world where nobody can speak their private thoughts because of men like Assange who are snooping and spying on you.
Thing of it on a personal level. Imagine if someone here hacked into your personal email address or your school emails and posted all of your private stuff up on here for us all to see. Imagine someobody posting up your medical records, criminal records, private photo's etc.
It's simply wrong and I cannot endorse it in any way.
I'm not against revelations being made that are in the public interest. Maybe some of what wikileaks has revealed is. But by releasing 250,000 cables most of which serve no public interest other than tittilation only undermines true democracy, trust and freedom of speech.
Confidentiallity is an incredibly important requirement for all forms of human life. For sure, sometimes it can be breached when the public interest level is acute, as was the case with Daniel Elsberg blowing the whistle on the Vietnam war. But jjust the revealing of documents for revealing's sake is fundamnetally wrong.
He deserves considerable jail time in my opinion.
I heard Assange and Wikileaks were going to start going after the Catholic Church....if that's the case then it won't be long Julian :deadnew:
Say what you will about the Catholic Church, but they still carry weight and they can and will still have people killed and I would think Assange is really playing with fire on this one. The CIA may get him locked up, but the Church will have him 6 feet under and not bat an eye.
This may be bad of me, but I do hope Michael Moore gets caught in some crossfire....they would have to be armor piercing rounds though to penetrate that mass of blubber that encases him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Moore would be an ambitious kill for sure. They would need to take advice from the Chinese Whaling industry for that hit.
I just really hate Assange. Furthermore his actions won't improve transparancy but will only serve to make nations and corporations more secretive. He is just doing damage.
The recklessness of it is criminal too. It's like if the police when called to carry out a search warrent just listed every finding on the internet, every item, every bill, letter, record, files on the pc, phone calls, web sites visited etc whether it was relevent or not and whether any evidence was found.
Privacy and confidentiallity HAS to be protected. They are FUNDAMENTAL human rights, at both a personal and organisational, even national level.
I don't object to whistle blowing when it in the public interest, and the documents and details uncovered and published are strictly to do with the corruption at hand, but just hacking into a private server and stealing every cable and putting them all on the net is not moral. It is theft, a betrayal of trust, espionage, criminal and I would say terrorism.
He should get at least 25 years imo.
Simply put Assange is a 21st Century Robespierre...he sees an evil in the government, but he has an evil inside of him that would just love to wield the power of the government. His movement will eat him alive....soon people will find out the truth about him and that he's not in this for the betterment of society, but he's in it because he wants to be a Cult of Personality, he's a narcissistic anarchist, and people (miles included) will eventually become disenchanted with this liberal darling....it happens very often, hell look at what has become of American politics and in only 2 years. Once people thought the Republican party dead, and now who's getting kicked out of office this January? I do love it when the naive idealistic liberals get a stiff dose of reality and they come crashing down in a heap clutching their coffee, smoking their cigarettes, and thinking to themselves "What went wrong? Why did this happen?"...it went wrong because it's not a perfect world, it happened because liberals don't govern in reality they are off in some far off philosophical dream world where people live together in peace and love each other and are supportive of one another and they never compete or have flaws like greed or corruption and the people receiving welfare are just hardworking folks down on their luck and they will take the opportunity the government (and the tax payers) have given them to pay it forward and actually contribute to society......oh it's going to be a doozy of a hangover when you libs wake up from this one and I'll be laughing my ass off at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Moore would be an ambitious kill for sure. They would need to take advice from the Chinese Whaling industry for that hit.
I just really hate Assange. Furthermore his actions won't improve transparancy but will only serve to make nations and corporations more secretive. He is just doing damage.
The recklessness of it is criminal too. It's like if the police when called to carry out a search warrent just listed every finding on the internet, every item, every bill, letter, record, files on the pc, phone calls, web sites visited etc whether it was relevent or not and whether any evidence was found.
Privacy and confidentiallity HAS to be protected. They are FUNDAMENTAL human rights, at both a personal and organisational, even national level.
I don't object to whistle blowing when it in the public interest, and the documents and details uncovered and published are strictly to do with the corruption at hand, but just hacking into a private server and stealing every cable and putting them all on the net is not moral. It is theft, a betrayal of trust, espionage, criminal and I would say terrorism.
He should get at least 25 years imo.
:fighting0043gi5:
I forsee very few positive outcomes for Assange....I do think assasination is a distinct possibility, he's pissing off too many people to get out of this unscathed. I for one am looking forward to his downfall with great anticipation...if I saw him, I might even join in.