Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?

[Gandalf]

Why do you think he is such a slimeball, Bilbo? I have been watching interviews with him and I think he carries himself very well. He is articulate and explains himself reasonably enough. He also explains Wikileaks and why they operate and also tells of their vetting process. I don't really understand why you hate him so much, but if that's how you feel then fair enough.

So he's finally being let out on bail? About time. I think all of this has only enhanced the support for Wikileaks and I think they should continue to play a valid role in the future. We need a site like this as the elites with their secrecy have only gone and brought us to war through deception and lies and the media simply lapped up government press releases instead of finding out the truth.

Wikileaks is valid and the response of some of these so called US elites has been borderline insane. Have him shot? Well, in that case let's have Bush brought in for his war crimes? The later is infinitely more reasonable.

I hate him because he is anti democratic. His site is unnacountable to anyone, they don't handle the information they given responsibiliy. He is a complete hypocritye refusing to explain his own site's finances whilst indiscriminately shining a spotlight on everyone else.

He has betrayed his informant Bradley Manning in failing to hand over any of the promised money for his defence, even Mannin's legal team have now turned on Assange.

You cannot have diplomacy without the ability to say things in confidence, and just taking away people's ability to speak in confidence and betraying the private trust of many individuals from many countries he serves only to damage diplomatic relations between countries and risks the lives of both civilians and military personel.

He himself is unelected, unaccountable and has set himself as an almost God like,dicatatorial figure, who is not answerable to anyone. He once famously wrote 'I am the heart and soul of this organisation, its founder, its philosopher, original coder, organiser, financier and all the rest. If you have a problem with me, piss off'.

Hardly the words of a man with a commitment to democratic process.

What he is doing has nothing to do with freedom of speech. With freedom of speech comes responsibility, and accountability. You need to balance the freedom to publish and all information you like against considerations of privacy and the public interest. Assange doesn't do that. What he does is the equivilent of rifling through people's dustbins. Investigative journalists are subject to certain rules and regulations. They are responsible and accountable for the information they uncover and select to reveal. Assange is not.

He is answerable to no one, he's not elected and he does not conduct himself in a responible way.

I can't stand the man.

In his defence, a close look at the sexual allegations against him highlights the fact that he is clearly on trial for his website rather than being a rapist. Those charges are utterly ridiculous and absurd. I agree with you there is no evidence of any sexual offences being carried out by him at all. The two women both consented to have sex with him, and only cried foul when each found out he had slept with the other. I think one is suing him because he did not use a condom, and the other because he broke the condom he used with her. The two women just sound like opportunists so it was right he got bail.

But it doesn't change the fact that he is a cunt.

Bilbo, are newpapers democratic in the way that they are subservient to the large corporate backers that they have? Are newpapers democratic in the way that they will spoonfeed you government press releases as news and drum up the case for illegal and immoral wars? Are governments democratic in how they will ignore the viewpoints of the majority of the population to go to war regardless?

In this sense Wikileaks is profoundly democratic in that they are supplying us with the truth regarding what our undemocratic governments are doing. If there was a Wikileaks when the drums of war were banging for Iraq then maybe there would have been no war. The mass secrecy and lack of democracy was what led us to these wars. The idea that Wikileaks is undemocratic is the opposite. They are telling us things that our governments will not reveal. That is democratic. It is allowing people access to the political system that the political system would otherwise deny.

He is the owner of a website, but the recent releases have been along with the Guardian and The New York Times, again...quite democratic considering it is following a media model in this instance. The information is what it is. If he was playing god then he would be altering and fabricating, but as it is these are simply documents being released as they are. And they have a vetting process to avoid harm. So far only a 1000 or so documents have been released as they continue to monitor prior to release.

He is what he is, a man on a mission to reveal the actions of dishonest government elites. There is nothing wrong with that and a great deal of good as far as I can see. The sex crimes charges are merely an attempt to divert attention. If America ever attempts to charge this man with espionage then you can say goodbye to any pretence at America even pretending to be an open democratic nation.

Fascist state 101 here we are. Try to tell the truth on the basis of someone elses leaked papers then we will have you put away, try to get on a bus and we will search your arse, corporate interests...fancy a lot of money funnelled away from the taxpayers?...here you go. Scary times!

All totally true and right here right now. Even Lyle has run scared of debating this stuff.