Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.
Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.
Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.
Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.
I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.
surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...
I've never seen Taeth do this, but in this case I have to agree with him. Whitaker had superb defensive skills, but Mayweather simply works harder and possesses better offensive skills than Pernell and would have taken a judges decision had they have fought.
just read most of his posts where he mentions Mayweather in nearly everyone of them, he builds him to be the #1 ATG fighter in the history of the sport
I don't think he's the greatest, but I think he's up there, as he should be. Just like RJJ should as well. It's ignorant people who think guys who they have barely seen in their lives are way better that should have their heads' checked. Most people have a p4p list who consist of guys who largely were never filmed in full bouts and nearly never near their prime yet they idolize them to no limit. Like Ray Robinson, there isn't enough full fights when he was at his best against his best opponents to really establish how good he was. Let alone Wille Pep, Benny Leonard, Sam Langford, Henry Armstrong, etc, etc. People hypothisize here and there, but they really don't know how these guys actually looked in the ring at their best. And the guys like Leonard, Hagler, Ali, and Duran are so insurmountable in the minds of some that a guy could far vastly outachieve what any of them did like Pacquiao has done, and still all these new guys get is hate from people like ElTerribleMorales
Just for example, just ask who is better Hopkins or Hagler, or who has the better legacy. JCC or guys like Barrera, Morales and/or JMM. I think in a few years time people will realize who has actually done more than who.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.
Only the best of the best.
Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)
:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest
Notice the wink after I said it ?
I was joking. Obviously.
I know. Just wanted to get the gravy drink off comment in
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.
Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.
Actually Ice is right. It would be damn hard to do it. But if anybody blunts Pryor's attack it's Whitaker
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.
Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.
Come forward overtly aggressive fighters are tailor made for Whitaker's style. Yeah styles make fights. In the case of Pryor's it's the wrong kind for him against Pernell. Just like come forward fighters are tailor made for Pacquiao the same applies here but Whitaker is instead an defensive whiz.
He takes at least 8 rounds or more in a UD against Pryor.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trueno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
[
Pep, Leonard and Tszyu would have no chance
Each guy I posted I gave a shot at beating Sweetpea, pretty sure he may have beaten quite a few of em.
Pep and Leonard may not have been big enough.
But you've gotta give Tszyu a chance don't you?
Pernell had a good beard, but Tszyu could take guys with one.
Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.
Leonard wouldn't have stood chance against Whitaker? WTF he would have stood a chance against anyone. Also Tszyu would match up quite well with Whitaker, he was calculated accurate, with huge power. He would probably lose, but he would give Whitaker a ton of problems.
:vd: Benny Leonard. Not Ray Leonard
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.
Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.
Come forward overtly aggressive fighters are tailor made for Whitaker's style. Yeah styles make fights. In the case of Pryor's it's the wrong kind for him against Pernell. Just like come forward fighters are tailor made for Pacquiao the same applies here but Whitaker is instead an defensive whiz.
He takes at least 8 rounds or more in a UD against Pryor.
Duran was a come-forward fighter. Are you saying Whitaker would've beaten him too @ 135?
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trueno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
[
Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.
I'll definitely go along with the first two and I can see where you're coming from with Tszyu.
But he was a great slick am- he could have (and should've) called on those skills more in the pros.
WTF ? the guy got stopped by vince phillips when he was in his prime !
no way in the world he beats SWEETPEA and i mean no way.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
I think ICB could give him a good fight.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trueno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
[
Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.
I'll definitely go along with the first two and I can see where you're coming from with Tszyu.
But he was a great slick am- he could have (and should've) called on those skills more in the pros.
WTF ? the guy got stopped by vince phillips when he was in his prime !
no way in the world he beats SWEETPEA and i mean no way.
Styles make fights I think.
Philips was far from a great fighter, but he was incredibly physical and in great condition. Although not in the same class I feel that Phillips pressure is something that Pernell couldn't have [pulled off and I see a distinct possibility that Pernell is caught in between a slip/roll/reflex defence. Remember Kostya had frightening power.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
I remember when Gatti was fighting Floyd. Whitaker was cheering hard for Gatti to a point that I might think, Whitaker don't like Floyd. Floyd's best performance ever!!!
One think about Floyd we all have to agree on, Floyd is relax and compose in the ring. The little dancing that Whitaker use to do that made his opponent try to load up on, Floyd will never do. "Take this laser jab all night!"
Floyd by MD
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.
Only the best of the best.
Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)
:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest
Notice the wink after I said it ?
I was joking. Obviously.
This icon ":-X" would be more appropriate for it imo.
Really? See I always think it's appropriate to pull a face like ^-^ when being a smart-arse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.
Only the best of the best.
Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)
:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest
Notice the wink after I said it ?
I was joking. Obviously.
I know. Just wanted to get the gravy drink off comment in ^-^
See!
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
I think the great thing about Pernell (or should I say 'the thing that defines his greatness') is that absolutely NO fighter (at 135/ 140) beats him 5/5... probably not even 3/3.
He's that good.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trueno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
[
Pep, Leonard and Tszyu would have no chance
Each guy I posted I gave a shot at beating Sweetpea, pretty sure he may have beaten quite a few of em.
Pep and Leonard may not have been big enough.
But you've gotta give Tszyu a chance don't you?
Pernell had a good beard, but Tszyu could take guys with one.
Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.
Leonard wouldn't have stood chance against Whitaker? WTF he would have stood a chance against anyone. Also Tszyu would match up quite well with Whitaker, he was calculated accurate, with huge power. He would probably lose, but he would give Whitaker a ton of problems.
:vd: Benny Leonard. Not Ray Leonard
How can you talk about Benny Leonard, how much footage of him have you actually seen? Like 2 minutes of crappy footage?
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.
Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.
Come forward overtly aggressive fighters are tailor made for Whitaker's style. Yeah styles make fights. In the case of Pryor's it's the wrong kind for him against Pernell. Just like come forward fighters are tailor made for Pacquiao the same applies here but Whitaker is instead an defensive whiz.
He takes at least 8 rounds or more in a UD against Pryor.
I don't think that's necessarily true, none of the guys that came forward on Whitaker, or anyone he faced besides maybe Roger Mayweather had really good handspeed. Whitaker fought against aggressive guys who were a lot slower than him, and his defensive was heavily based on his reflexes and ability to outquick guys. No way he does that against guys like Pryor and Pacquiao. He would be caught blind by the speed and output these guys could produce. I think he does better against Pryor because he was better against orthodox fighters, and Pryor isn't as fast nor does he hit as hard as Manny.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.
Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.
Do yourself a favor watch the fight i mentioned above, and im almost certain your change your mind.
I've watched some of it. YouTube - pryor vs hinton
Everybody get an off night sometimes. I'd still favor Pryor over Pea.
Re: Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.
Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.
Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.
Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.
I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.
surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...
I've never seen Taeth do this, but in this case I have to agree with him. Whitaker had superb defensive skills, but Mayweather simply works harder and possesses better offensive skills than Pernell and would have taken a judges decision had they have fought.
just read most of his posts where he mentions Mayweather in nearly everyone of them, he builds him to be the #1 ATG fighter in the history of the sport
I don't think he's the greatest, but I think he's up there, as he should be. Just like RJJ should as well. It's ignorant people who think guys who they have barely seen in their lives are way better that should have their heads' checked. Most people have a p4p list who consist of guys who largely were never filmed in full bouts and nearly never near their prime yet they idolize them to no limit. Like Ray Robinson, there isn't enough full fights when he was at his best against his best opponents to really establish how good he was. Let alone Wille Pep, Benny Leonard, Sam Langford, Henry Armstrong, etc, etc. People hypothisize here and there, but they really don't know how these guys actually looked in the ring at their best.
Very good points
If you look at things objectively it would be very hard to not have PAC and PBF in the top 10 p4p of all time.
