Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
What a bold face liar! HBO is out for HBO ratings, Arum is the one selling to HBO because it's lump sum money. You don't have to work as hard as promoter when HBO buys the fights. HBO then turns around an markets the fight. It's like outsourcing the promotion. If you have to promote the fight, You have to be the one to buy the Air time and do all kinds of shit to draw attention to sell the fight. There is a lot of fucking work to do. You might not have recognized it, but you've seen GBP do this with the news infomercials on Floyd's fights although they could just call TMZ with his schedule. In Dallas, it was Jones doing the selling. And what Arum is really after, is those free advertisements he gets from the main stream new media. With Pacquiao, it is very easy because news media follows him. That shit about the other promoters and Alexander was just setting up to get Alexander over to Top Rank. I agree, he really is a "cluster fuk".
The NFL already does PPV in the form of Sports Cable network channels. And I'd be willing to bet, it brings down the ratings but makes them more money.
That shit ain't like boxing's PPV or boxing on being on HBO and Showtime. When's the last time you had to pay $54.99 to see Greenbay-Philly in the playoffs? Or whatever team playing in the Superbowl? Or any NFL team in the playoffs? And hell you get to see the local NFL team on the local tv network or a cluster of games every sunday on Fox, NBC, CBS.
That example isn't comparable at all.
Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
What a bold face liar! HBO is out for HBO ratings, Arum is the one selling to HBO because it's lump sum money. You don't have to work as hard as promoter when HBO buys the fights. HBO then turns around an markets the fight. It's like outsourcing the promotion. If you have to promote the fight, You have to be the one to buy the Air time and do all kinds of shit to draw attention to sell the fight. There is a lot of fucking work to do. You might not have recognized it, but you've seen GBP do this with the news infomercials on Floyd's fights although they could just call TMZ with his schedule. In Dallas, it was Jones doing the selling. And what Arum is really after, is those free advertisements he gets from the main stream new media. With Pacquiao, it is very easy because news media follows him. That shit about the other promoters and Alexander was just setting up to get Alexander over to Top Rank. I agree, he really is a "cluster fuk".
The NFL already does PPV in the form of Sports Cable network channels. And I'd be willing to bet, it brings down the ratings but makes them more money.
That shit ain't like boxing's PPV or boxing on being on HBO and Showtime. When's the last time you had to pay $54.99 to see Greenbay-Philly in the playoffs? Or whatever team playing in the Superbowl? Or any NFL team in the playoffs? And hell you get to see the local NFL team on the local tv network or a cluster of games every sunday on Fox, NBC, CBS.
That example isn't comparable at all.
Who said it was the same. My point being only that subscriptions are a move that causes a downturn in viewership because subscriptions cost. There is a point when you put too much financial demand on the fan and they do something else with their time. Promoters have unintentionally destoryed the fan base for the sport of boxing with their greed and point the finger at everyone else.
Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not the many weight classes or multiple belts that are the main problems imo, but that its lack of reach to a broader audience. The 3 top sports, most watched, and participated in the US are American football, basketball, and baseball. Why? The pro leagues of the sports are on regular broadcast/terrestrial tv in the US where millions have access to and can watch for free, it's not on premium cable channels where one has to pay. CBS, ABC, NBC can reach an audience of over 100 million or more for their big programs. HBO for instance can only reach about 28 million.
For boxing to regain a foothold again in the realm of mainstream sports, it needs to be on regular television to attract new fans, future participants, to replenish the sport. When you limit your exposure to premium cable subscribers it only hurts the sport. I can understand when the boxers wants to make more money by fighting on PPV, but I believe that should be reserved for the biggest of bouts and not something like Pac-Clottey, where a fight like that should be on regular tv.
So what does this mean? It means that boxing practically hurt itself when rising stars and top stars are only accessible through premium cable channels and not on broadcast television limiting it's exposure to casual sports fans, potential new fans, and potential future participants. Hence why we have a niche sport today. In order for boxing to regain it's lost foothold as a mainstream sport it needs to be back on broadcast tv. The decline of the sport in America can be traced to when it's stars and rising prospects went to HBO and Showtime exclusively limiting their exposure to a wider audience.
Back in the day guys like SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Tyson, Holyfield can be seen on broadcast television rising through the ranks, and in some cases their champsionship bouts like Leonard/Benitez and Holyfield/Qawi were shown on regular tv. And even if their fights were on closed circuit tv (which would only be the biggest of fights), it would later be rebroadcast later on regular tv like Leonard/Duran. It was probably about late 80s that they went to the premium cable channels that really hurt boxing. Oh well.
Discuss.
Like you and every other boxing fan, I'd love for boxing to make its way back into the realm of mainstream sports. But the possibilities of that happening are pretty nil and none. The movement is toward more PPV, not less. The average fan cannot possibly keep up with the number of fights on PPV. It's become almost a weekly thing. And the dividing line between PPV and regular TV is getting lower and lower. You're right when you say that PPV should be reserved for the mega-fights and not just every good fight. But unfortunately, the movement seems to be in only one direction. I would appear there's no turning back. It's like charging for services on an airplane. It used to be that you paid your ticket, and everything else was free (well.... obviously included in the ticket fare). But now it seems you pay extra for everything. Meals, baggage, movies...... can pay toilets be far behind?
I know I sound pessimistic, but it would take a major movement to reverse the direction of boxing and put it back on the CBS's, NBC's, and the Fox's of the TV landscape. Here's hoping that major movement happens.
Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not the many weight classes or multiple belts that are the main problems imo, but that its lack of reach to a broader audience. The 3 top sports, most watched, and participated in the US are American football, basketball, and baseball. Why? The pro leagues of the sports are on regular broadcast/terrestrial tv in the US where millions have access to and can watch for free, it's not on premium cable channels where one has to pay. CBS, ABC, NBC can reach an audience of over 100 million or more for their big programs. HBO for instance can only reach about 28 million.
For boxing to regain a foothold again in the realm of mainstream sports, it needs to be on regular television to attract new fans, future participants, to replenish the sport. When you limit your exposure to premium cable subscribers it only hurts the sport. I can understand when the boxers wants to make more money by fighting on PPV, but I believe that should be reserved for the biggest of bouts and not something like Pac-Clottey, where a fight like that should be on regular tv.
So what does this mean? It means that boxing practically hurt itself when rising stars and top stars are only accessible through premium cable channels and not on broadcast television limiting it's exposure to casual sports fans, potential new fans, and potential future participants. Hence why we have a niche sport today. In order for boxing to regain it's lost foothold as a mainstream sport it needs to be back on broadcast tv. The decline of the sport in America can be traced to when it's stars and rising prospects went to HBO and Showtime exclusively limiting their exposure to a wider audience.
Back in the day guys like SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Tyson, Holyfield can be seen on broadcast television rising through the ranks, and in some cases their champsionship bouts like Leonard/Benitez and Holyfield/Qawi were shown on regular tv. And even if their fights were on closed circuit tv (which would only be the biggest of fights), it would later be rebroadcast later on regular tv like Leonard/Duran. It was probably about late 80s that they went to the premium cable channels that really hurt boxing. Oh well.
Discuss.
Like you and every other boxing fan, I'd love for boxing to make its way back into the realm of mainstream sports. But the possibilities of that happening are pretty nil and none. The movement is toward more PPV, not less. The average fan cannot possibly keep up with the number of fights on PPV. It's become almost a weekly thing. And the dividing line between PPV and regular TV is getting lower and lower. You're right when you say that PPV should be reserved for the mega-fights and not just every good fight. But unfortunately, the movement seems to be in only one direction. I would appear there's no turning back. It's like charging for services on an airplane. It used to be that you paid your ticket, and everything else was free (well.... obviously included in the ticket fare). But now it seems you pay extra for everything. Meals, baggage, movies...... can pay toilets be far behind?
I know I sound pessimistic, but it would take a major movement to reverse the direction of boxing and put it back on the CBS's, NBC's, and the Fox's of the TV landscape. Here's hoping that major movement happens.
Ahh... but what you are not recognizing is new media. PPV/subscription on a primarily tab app. which can easily move toward the new touch screen TV's. Old promoters will die off and new promoters will be more new media tech savvy. People will start viewing fights based on ratings and social networking fads just like youtube. (you can be online with saddo while watching live without having to look away from the screen) Then we'll start seeing the viral fight where even the 7-0 fighter can make millions. With boxing you don't have to watch an hour before something really exciting happens like with some sports. With boxing, if you look a way in that instant, you could miss a knock out. HBO, Showtime and the like are going to compete in this new media delivery because they are loosing out to the net-flicks. Why should I pay a big subscription and have the view selection programmed, when I can program a selection at my pleasure. Podcast didn't take off, I think because the screens are too small. With the faster multi-core processors increased throughput to 5gb a sec. making performance issues obsolete, Tablets are just the start.
Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not the many weight classes or multiple belts that are the main problems imo, but that its lack of reach to a broader audience. The 3 top sports, most watched, and participated in the US are American football, basketball, and baseball. Why? The pro leagues of the sports are on regular broadcast/terrestrial tv in the US where millions have access to and can watch for free, it's not on premium cable channels where one has to pay. CBS, ABC, NBC can reach an audience of over 100 million or more for their big programs. HBO for instance can only reach about 28 million.
For boxing to regain a foothold again in the realm of mainstream sports, it needs to be on regular television to attract new fans, future participants, to replenish the sport. When you limit your exposure to premium cable subscribers it only hurts the sport. I can understand when the boxers wants to make more money by fighting on PPV, but I believe that should be reserved for the biggest of bouts and not something like Pac-Clottey, where a fight like that should be on regular tv.
So what does this mean? It means that boxing practically hurt itself when rising stars and top stars are only accessible through premium cable channels and not on broadcast television limiting it's exposure to casual sports fans, potential new fans, and potential future participants. Hence why we have a niche sport today. In order for boxing to regain it's lost foothold as a mainstream sport it needs to be back on broadcast tv. The decline of the sport in America can be traced to when it's stars and rising prospects went to HBO and Showtime exclusively limiting their exposure to a wider audience.
Back in the day guys like SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Tyson, Holyfield can be seen on broadcast television rising through the ranks, and in some cases their champsionship bouts like Leonard/Benitez and Holyfield/Qawi were shown on regular tv. And even if their fights were on closed circuit tv (which would only be the biggest of fights), it would later be rebroadcast later on regular tv like Leonard/Duran. It was probably about late 80s that they went to the premium cable channels that really hurt boxing. Oh well.
Discuss.
Like you and every other boxing fan, I'd love for boxing to make its way back into the realm of mainstream sports. But the possibilities of that happening are pretty nil and none. The movement is toward more PPV, not less. The average fan cannot possibly keep up with the number of fights on PPV. It's become almost a weekly thing. And the dividing line between PPV and regular TV is getting lower and lower. You're right when you say that PPV should be reserved for the mega-fights and not just every good fight. But unfortunately, the movement seems to be in only one direction. I would appear there's no turning back. It's like charging for services on an airplane. It used to be that you paid your ticket, and everything else was free (well.... obviously included in the ticket fare). But now it seems you pay extra for everything. Meals, baggage, movies...... can pay toilets be far behind?
I know I sound pessimistic, but it would take a major movement to reverse the direction of boxing and put it back on the CBS's, NBC's, and the Fox's of the TV landscape. Here's hoping that major movement happens.
Sadly true. I lament at boxing’s decline and acceptance of mediocrity. I am lucky as a fan to have grown up when I did. People actually fought each other and there was only one belt. Later 2 but no silver, platinum, interim, super crap. They all share the blame. The fighters, the promoters, Hbo, Ppv , idiotic theories on p4p playing into their hands, the whole works. It’s a love hate relationship. Like heroin.
Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
I thought this poster at another forum sum it up quite nicely.
Quote:
I can understand where Lamont is coming from, but the real issue is with the sport of boxing and the niche (market) communities that follow the sport. From an economic stand point, at least in the U.S, the consumer (regardless of ethnicity) has access to any and all types of sports that are available on cable network/regular networks. Sports like Basketball, Baseball, and Football have a huge following because of the availability to watch in a consistent, cyclical basis providing any person (with a preference) the ability to follow an athlete (Terrel Owens, Ochocinco, Mark Sanchez, D.Wade, L. James) . More specifically, many "minorities" (i.e., Black, Hispanic, Non-white) follow those sports because ease of access. My theory is simply this, because the sport of boxing is offered in premium channels and is further exclusive with PPV for higher end fights, many people outside of the niche sport won't invest time (and money). Demand for the sport is inelastic.
