i watched them both again....
scored it 113-112 pacquiao in the first.
and 114-113 pacquiao in the second.
if only marquez had heavier hands. he was much more technically strong and connected with shots that if harder, probably would have ko'd pac.
marquez won more rounds but i saw pacquiao scoring higher.
(and i like marquez more than i like pacquiao)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
1st fight- 115-111 MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
2nd fight- 115-113 Marquez
how did JMM get to 115?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_langQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise1st fight- 115-111 MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
2nd fight- 115-113 Marquez
how did JMM get to 115?
With one knockdown recorded in the fight, the combined score should only equal to 227. Haha! VD missed this one... must've lost some expert points.:)
Could not disagree more with this post. WOWQuote:
Originally Posted by SRRI'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.
Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.
None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.
On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.
Also, its looking like Marquez has gone the route of adding power at the expense of speed. He looks a little bulked up. Which is fine if you want to go that way. But I would'nt be sacrificing an ounce of speed when I'm about to fight Pac. Who knows though, maybe he catches him, but I can't see it happening right now. And whats this im hearing about Marquez's strength coach with a checkered past?
I couldn't disagree more with this post. I'm no Pactard either.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRRI'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.
Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.
None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.
On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.
I had Manny winning the fight because of the second KD...
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5531/pac2oz1.gif
15rounder, why do you start a thread pretending to want to discuss the matter.......but whenever people have a different opinion they are ignorant??
Please discuss. ;D
You have brought up some valid points and it would be a formidable task for anyone to even contradict any of them but I will try.
I know I am going to get flogged for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRR
First off, I don't believe I've ever used the word "ignorant". Think you've been hitting the booze. I said people may have blinders on if they think JMM won the fight hands down. No one won either fight hands down sir. These were good competitive fights and thats why a 3rd one is meritted. Yeah, I came after the guy that said "anyone who had Pac winning both fights is smoking rocks" By that definition, that's atleast half the people on Saddo. And anyone who thinks Pac won't go down as an all time great I'm going call them on it. Same as I would call out anyone who says JMM or Mayweather shouldn't be on that list as well. Read my posts sir. Don't just look at one thing you disagree with and get pissy. Back something up man.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
close fight ...???
SRR made great points. I agree with most of what he said. Good post, SRR.
I said that anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down is smoking rocks, so maybe you wanna read a bit better before you get so touchy feely, like I said in another post, you didn't dominate shit if with 3 KD's in a single fight and you barely manage to eek out a draw, same goes for the rematchQuote:
Originally Posted by 15rounderFirst off, I don't believe I've ever used the word "ignorant". Think you've been hitting the booze. I said people may have blinders on if they think JMM won the fight hands down. No one won either fight hands down sir. These were good competitive fights and thats why a 3rd one is meritted. Yeah, I came after the guy that said "anyone who had Pac winning both fights is smoking rocks" By that definition, that's atleast half the people on Saddo. And anyone who thinks Pac won't go down as an all time great I'm going call them on it. Same as I would call out anyone who says JMM or Mayweather shouldn't be on that list as well. Read my posts sir. Don't just look at one thing you disagree with and get pissy. Back something up man.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
You post that and you call me touchy feely?...lol. Marquez can't stay off his ass. He stays on his feet and we don't have this discussion. Sorry man. Should be a good one tomorrow night.
Same..some very valid points that unfortunately most people won't hear. Love is blind as they say ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita