Just watched the 2nd Pacman/Marquez fight. JMM fans must have blinders on

[ruthless rocco]

i watched them both again....

scored it 113-112 pacquiao in the first.
and 114-113 pacquiao in the second.

if only marquez had heavier hands. he was much more technically strong and connected with shots that if harder, probably would have ko'd pac.

marquez won more rounds but i saw pacquiao scoring higher.

(and i like marquez more than i like pacquiao)

[miron_lang]

I watched both fights twice and had it the same

1st fight- 114-111 Pacman
2nd fight- 114-113 Pacman

2nd fight could have gone either way . Knockdowns made the difference imo. 4-0 for Pacman

1st fight- 115-111 Marquez
2nd fight- 115-113 Marquez

how did JMM get to 115?

[KananKrus]

I watched both fights twice and had it the same

1st fight- 114-111 Pacman
2nd fight- 114-113 Pacman

2nd fight could have gone either way . Knockdowns made the difference imo. 4-0 for Pacman

1st fight- 115-111 Marquez
2nd fight- 115-113 Marquez

how did JMM get to 115?

With one knockdown recorded in the fight, the combined score should only equal to 227. Haha! VD missed this one... must've lost some expert points.

[15rounder]

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.

Could not disagree more with this post. WOW

[15rounder]

Also, its looking like Marquez has gone the route of adding power at the expense of speed. He looks a little bulked up. Which is fine if you want to go that way. But I would'nt be sacrificing an ounce of speed when I'm about to fight Pac. Who knows though, maybe he catches him, but I can't see it happening right now. And whats this im hearing about Marquez's strength coach with a checkered past?

[Rantcatrat]

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.

I couldn't disagree more with this post. I'm no Pactard either.

[:::PSL:::]

I had Manny winning the fight because of the second KD...

[boozeboxer]

15rounder, why do you start a thread pretending to want to discuss the matter.......but whenever people have a different opinion they are ignorant??




Please discuss.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

You have brought up some valid points and it would be a formidable task for anyone to even contradict any of them but I will try.

I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH Floyd didn't dominate DLH , Hatton at the weight Ricky is not used to, Mosley agree and Manny had no reason besides financial to fight Shane), one clumsy turtle (Clottey) who did not want to get hit so Pacquiao made him clumsy, one broken warrior (Cotto) who was competitve the first few rounds until he was knocked down, is it possible that Pacquiao broke him down in that fight? and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato) who can still give most boxers in his division the fits, and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone if Manny loses to Marquez, then you're probably right? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights. The Pacquiao-Marquez bout is a fight wherein Manny has something to lose and nothing to gain.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. The fight was so close that it could have gone either way. So, yes, it isn't a convincing win for Pacquiao. It would not likewise have been convincing for Marquez had he won it. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Agree. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, or that Manny knows he did not win convincingly and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? or that he does not want to leave the outcome of this bout to chance I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A lose will definitely tarnish Pac's legacy. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point nor is a unanimous decision if it's close, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage or that he does not want the result to end up in another decision, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. Then who has that technical ability and boxing skills that Pac should be fighting? However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time. Marquez has a chance no matter how slim it may be.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. Besides Pacquiao fighting Mayweather, how else do you think he can do that? I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. You are implying that Mayweather is the only one who can give him competition. So, what about the rest of the boxers in his weight division and below? Is it because Manny is so good or the rest of the competition is so awful. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it Who should Manny fight then?, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures. There cannot be a fight if Mayweather does not want to fight him. What do you suggest Manny do then?

I know I am going to get flogged for this.

[15rounder]

15rounder, why do you start a thread pretending to want to discuss the matter.......but whenever people have a different opinion they are ignorant??




Please discuss.

First off, I don't believe I've ever used the word "ignorant". Think you've been hitting the booze. I said people may have blinders on if they think JMM won the fight hands down. No one won either fight hands down sir. These were good competitive fights and thats why a 3rd one is meritted. Yeah, I came after the guy that said "anyone who had Pac winning both fights is smoking rocks" By that definition, that's atleast half the people on Saddo. And anyone who thinks Pac won't go down as an all time great I'm going call them on it. Same as I would call out anyone who says JMM or Mayweather shouldn't be on that list as well. Read my posts sir. Don't just look at one thing you disagree with and get pissy. Back something up man.

[seospecialist]

close fight ...

[FinitoElDinamita]

SRR made great points. I agree with most of what he said. Good post, SRR.

[ElTerribleMorales]

15rounder, why do you start a thread pretending to want to discuss the matter.......but whenever people have a different opinion they are ignorant??




Please discuss.

First off, I don't believe I've ever used the word "ignorant". Think you've been hitting the booze. I said people may have blinders on if they think JMM won the fight hands down. No one won either fight hands down sir. These were good competitive fights and thats why a 3rd one is meritted. Yeah, I came after the guy that said "anyone who had Pac winning both fights is smoking rocks" By that definition, that's atleast half the people on Saddo. And anyone who thinks Pac won't go down as an all time great I'm going call them on it. Same as I would call out anyone who says JMM or Mayweather shouldn't be on that list as well. Read my posts sir. Don't just look at one thing you disagree with and get pissy. Back something up man.

I said that anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down is smoking rocks, so maybe you wanna read a bit better before you get so touchy feely, like I said in another post, you didn't dominate shit if with 3 KD's in a single fight and you barely manage to eek out a draw, same goes for the rematch

[15rounder]

You post that and you call me touchy feely?...lol. Marquez can't stay off his ass. He stays on his feet and we don't have this discussion. Sorry man. Should be a good one tomorrow night.

[Althugz]

SRR made great points. I agree with most of what he said. Good post, SRR.

Same..some very valid points that unfortunately most people won't hear. Love is blind as they say