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Suicide is never justifiable to other people...only to those battling demons like depression or substance abuse. Those people get worn down because "coping day to day" with depression or substance abuse is a battle, it's a battle to just "act normal" when you're dealing with depression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
It is a battle man....and it can be very scary
Yeah? Do I also have to have lusted sexually for little kids to judge pedophiles? Do I have to have tried to murder someone before I can judge murderers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Do I have to study culinary arts before I can comment about the food I eat at a restaurant?
The whole "who are you to judge" thing that ALWAYS comes up is nonsense and is the biggest cop out.
No one is saying depression is a cake walk. I'm saying it doesn't justify suicide. Never. It's selfish and I don't care how much pain you are or you think you are in. Selfish, self-centered. The coward's way out.
No doubt, but at the end of the day the man who doesn't do what's right for his family, the man who intentionally inflicts emotional pain on them is the weak man.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I would agree if you said fragile, vulnerable and not in control of his senses at the time than weakQuote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerNo doubt, but at the end of the day the man who doesn't do what's right for his family, the man who intentionally inflicts emotional pain on them is the weak man.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Fair enough, I won't say that a man is weak overall because he was weak in the moment, but suicide = bitch move always (unless you're terminally ill or something along that lines).
I know a couple of people who have done it and ask the same thing because they had young children. I just think they were in a place that they could not get out from and most like regret what they did if they were well and thinking straight because they loved their kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
It just bugs me how people talk about suicide the same way we'd talk about it if he died in a car accident, like "oh, poor guy, of course this happened, it's a shame it happened to him", like it wasn't his choice. He chose to check out. He also chose to hang himself and slash his wrist in his house, so whatever unfortunate family member happened to stumble upon him would have that grizzly scene forever etched in their minds and cause even further mental anguish. And apparently he never left a suicide note to even try to explain his action.
It was an awful thing that he did, but apparently you're not allowed to say that any more because that just means you're ignorant about mental illness. Yeeeesh.
Why the qualifier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Even if he did what good would it do? None of us were in his position, none of us felt his pain.Quote:
And apparently he never left a suicide note to even try to explain his action.
Depression is deeper and darker than you could imagine it is your mind attacking itself. It is the organ you depend on to keep you calm, to keep you "normal", and when it malfunctions it can drive you to do things you would not normally do. So by that rational you can say "Suicide is the cheap way out....it's a bitch move....IF you're in your right mind" .....if you are in your right mind suicide is fairly easy to avoid.
I don't wish to berate or belittle anyone, it's just having battled depression I want you to get more of a feel for how it is...it is as unbearable as nails on a chalkboard, it's as draining as a marathon, it is as constant as a toothache, it will wear you down and make you quit at life...it'll make you quit. And people do quit, and their families hurt, and wonder what happened....what can you tell them to make it better? Well people who have battled will attempt to define what it's like, and hopefully more people begin to understand and the more people who understand, the more available help will be or the willingness to help will be for others who are suffering depression.....that and studying depression is about all that can be done.
Suicide is selfish, but the pain that drives a person to that end....that's a very real thing.
I've acknowledged that it's terrible. Never once did I doubt the seriousness of depression or the anguish that it causes the person afflicted. I'm not another one of these dummies who says "WHAT DID HE HAVE TO BE SAD ABOUT??? HE'S RICH!!" It's not my cause or intention to diminish the adverse effects of mental illness.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWhy the qualifier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Even if he did what good would it do? None of us were in his position, none of us felt his pain.Quote:
And apparently he never left a suicide note to even try to explain his action.
Depression is deeper and darker than you could imagine it is your mind attacking itself. It is the organ you depend on to keep you calm, to keep you "normal", and when it malfunctions it can drive you to do things you would not normally do. So by that rational you can say "Suicide is the cheap way out....it's a bitch move....IF you're in your right mind" .....if you are in your right mind suicide is fairly easy to avoid.
I don't wish to berate or belittle anyone, it's just having battled depression I want you to get more of a feel for how it is...it is as unbearable as nails on a chalkboard, it's as draining as a marathon, it is as constant as a toothache, it will wear you down and make you quit at life...it'll make you quit. And people do quit, and their families hurt, and wonder what happened....what can you tell them to make it better? Well people who have battled will attempt to define what it's like, and hopefully more people begin to understand and the more people who understand, the more available help will be or the willingness to help will be for others who are suffering depression.....that and studying depression is about all that can be done.
Suicide is selfish, but the pain that drives a person to that end....that's a very real thing.
My problem has been and always will be with the act of committing suicide and transferring your pain onto your family and friends. It'll always be a selfish act and the "wrong decision" in my book. I don't believe it's a last resort or anybody had to kill themselves. I don't buy it as an inevitable conclusion: to me it will always be someone making the wrong choice in their darkest hour.
It's a selfish choice and it's the WRONG choice. The extent to which you are suffering mentally will never change that.
Yes it's the wrong choice, it's a selfish choice, but again those ideas aren't immediately going through the mind of a depressed person.
On another note, the media savages and jackals released a picture of Robin at an AA meeting....just despicable behavior to violate that trust. ABC also offered aerial views of Williams' FAMILY home directly after his suicide was reported....horrible.
Yeah I saw that... fucking vultures.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I work for a local news channel here, and it's our policy not to report on suicides. Obviously when it's an A-list celebrity you have to report it, but it doesn't mean you can't do it as tastefully as possible.
I turn on the news and it's aerials of Robin's home, and people hypothesizing what made him kill himself (heart operation a few years back, cancelled show, ect). It's madness.
Rest in peace!
Ooh silly me i thought it was Robbie Willains who died first til i read the news
Love his quotes cocaine is gods way of telling you that you have too much money.
10 inspiring and funny Robin Williams quotes - Showbiz Feature - Digital Spy
I admit I was in slightly confessional mode last time out. It is something I try to avoid doing these days as it serves no purpose. It makes me look psychopathic.
The death of Williams appears to have been a combination of pressures. Expensive alimony, depression, and finding it harder to keep it all going post heart surgery.
The man was rapidly running out of resources with his TV show cancelled and saw no way out. Now, I wouldn't blame him! Blame the stupid alimony! 'He slept with me so he owes me always'. Talk about a long term prostitute, but a prostitute with no more action. Two such wives to pay for.
Williams seemed like a vulnerable kind man, but circumstances (alimony) pushed him hard, when ill health and age should have seen him slow down. He couldn't see a way out and considering drinking would have been the end and miserable to those around him he ended it quietly and quickly. He didn't know what else to do and being a manic depressive, he took the obvious path.
I think he was hounded to death by finance and if people really cared about him, then this could have been avoided.
Also sorry for my drunken retorts in this thread earlier. The death just upset me because it is terrible. It is a Robin Williams thread, not a me thread. One can make the argument that suicide is a chickens move, but let any normal person hack at their arms for a few minutes and then actually finish the job with a belt. It's easy for a living person to criticise that and say it's cowardly.
No it isn't cowardly. If you disagree, then try yourself. Hack at the arms, make them bloody. Then tie a noose around your neck and die. That's a serious intent. Then of course Williams had provided for the ex-wives, put trust funds for the kids and he did his thing. A coward would run and give nothing, this man was a giver. A coward is like the majority, they live on and on, but like a Dad in the West never give anything, and they never die.
Robin Williams, even through suicide, was a significant class above the still living.