Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Stiverne
Wilder
Fury
Arreola
Jennings (for sure)
Regardless of the win loss, he will most likely wrap up with having fought all of these men.
If Fury/Wilder does not happen for the WBC scrap after Wlad fights Jennings, he will have an off fight with Briggs and then still fight the rest of them.
I see another 2 and 1/2 years before he retires... two fights this year, and two to three for next year depending on how easy the fights are.
But with soft punchers like Jennings and Arreola on the list, then he can get it done within 2 and 1/2 years.
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
This is as good a guess as any... and I certainly hope he doesn't retire before facing at least these opponents. Actually, what I really hope is that Wilder gets another 2-3 good fights under his belt.... and then faces Wlad. Hopefully Wlad won't suddenly decide there's something else he needs to be doing, and retire.
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
This is as good a guess as any... and I certainly hope he doesn't retire before facing at least these opponents. Actually, what I really hope is that Wilder gets another 2-3 good fights under his belt.... and then faces Wlad. Hopefully Wlad won't suddenly decide there's something else he needs to be doing, and retire.
Why would Wilder need 2-3 good fights before fighting Wlad??? Regardless Wlad ain't going anywhere without unifying the belts
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Personally I'd rather have Wilder/Wlad right now, and then the winner fight Fury (or Wlad/Fury now, winner fight Wilder). It kind of sucks to have Wilder and Fury fight, because they are currently the two most interesting matches for Wlad and the loser won't get to fight Wlad for another few years, if ever.
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Personally I'd rather have Wilder/Wlad right now, and then the winner fight Fury (or Wlad/Fury now, winner fight Wilder). It kind of sucks to have Wilder and Fury fight, because they are currently the two most interesting matches for Wlad and the loser won't get to fight Wlad for another few years, if ever.
I don't believe for one second that Fury will fight Wilder...Fury will try to demand Wlad fight him because providing Fury beats Hammer then Fury becomes the WBO mandatory. I reckon Fury will lawyer up and try to stop Wlad from unifying the titles, OR the best result for Fury would be, take your time, allow Wlad to unify and then go fight Wlad (or Wilder) for ALL of the belts.
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.
I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.
I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.
I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.
No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.
You're right; A 240lb Ike Ibeabuchi averaged 80+ punches per round- damn near 970+ by his damn self- that shit is called will power. A Wladimir Clinchko doesn't have that dog in him like his older bro. Hit Vitali hard- he's gotta get back or try...His ripped up face compliments of Lennox bares him witness.
But baby bro?
Wlad's got clinchitis.
Boxers aka Fighters like Ali or Holmes may clinch, may cover up, may return fire- when they are under fire..
But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.
Doesnt make him a bad guy, just means he will only throw his bombs...when the coast is clear bwaahaaaa!;D
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Ike Ibeabuchi probably suffered from CTE due to the war he had with Tua and Ibeabuchi is awaiting deportation back to Nigeria.....meanwhile Wlad is an ALL-TIME GREAT Heavyweight Champion.
But I digress
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Wlad's going keep fighting until the wheels fall off.
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.
I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.
I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.
I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.
No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.
You're right; A 240lb Ike Ibeabuchi averaged 80+ punches per round- damn near 970+ by his damn self- that shit is called will power. A Wladimir Clinchko doesn't have that dog in him like his older bro. Hit Vitali hard- he's gotta get back or try...His ripped up face compliments of Lennox bares him witness.
But baby bro?
Wlad's got clinchitis.
Boxers aka Fighters like Ali or Holmes may clinch, may cover up, may return fire- when they are under fire..
But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.
Doesnt make him a bad guy, just means he will only throw his bombs...when the coast is clear bwaahaaaa!;D
:appl:
There you go.
Maybe because someone else said it, it will be more acceptable..... 'cause everybody knows I'm just a big ol' Wlad hater and have never given him any credit for anything.
Ever.
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.
He tried that, and it got him KTFO vs Sanders ;D
Ibeabuchi and Tuaman threw a ton of punches, which is exhausting and they showed a ton of heart, but they were standing still. They weren't constantly moving their feet, ducking, dodging, ect, which will wear out a big man a lot quicker. They basically both went 12 rounds on the heavy bag, and from what I've read about Ibeabuchi suffering brain damage and going crazy after that fight, it probably wasn't the best idea.
It's kind of getting beat into the ground, if people want to love or hate Wlad, that's cool with me. But if you want to boil it all down, if I'm a heavyweight boxer... I want to be Wlad. No brain damage, no mangled face, huge following, undisputed #1 HW in the world, big money every fight, hot Hollywood actress wife... this guy is doing it right.
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
It's a cruel business. It's cool to fight for the fans and take risks and get punched and take damage, but what happens when you get injured in the ring like a McClellan or Mago, or you end up punch drunk, in jail, addicted to drugs, ect like so many boxers in the past.
Take a look at what happened to exciting fan favourite Jerry Quarry. In his 40s he didn't know how to dress himself or how to spell his name any more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVOoDdRTAAM
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
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Originally Posted by
El Kabong
But I digress
Yes you already did!;D
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
It's a cruel business. It's cool to fight for the fans and take risks and get punched and take damage, but what happens when you get injured in the ring like a McClellan or Mago, or you end up punch drunk, in jail, addicted to drugs, ect like so many boxers in the past.
Take a look at what happened to exciting fan favourite Jerry Quarry. In his 40s he didn't know how to dress himself or how to spell his name any more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVOoDdRTAAM
I think some of us (not certain where you are on this) are seeing the same thing from different angles.
1. Some here are talking about how Wlad's temperament is. (that's it)
2. Defenders of Wlad turn it into a debate on the long term effects of those who stand & trade -then ask why should he change what's working.
With that being said: 2 different subject on this thread. None of us objective fans(hint sarcasm):rolleyes: are claiming Wlad will only be accepted if he stands & trade & goes brain dead.
I can only speak for myself:
Wlad doesn't stand & trade because - he is trying to be smart. He can't STAND & TRADE-it aint in him. That's why I pointed out Vitali- he seems to have his faculties post-boxing doesn't he? Serious. Find any ...ANY time Wlad gets clobbered and look at what he does. That shit is instinctive in him to clinch.
Wlad is like a running back in the NFL who doesn't break the line of scrimmage so he runs to the sidelines to get his two punk ass yards. Add em up' heck might win the game.
Wlad is like a Center in the NBA who won't dunk because he's afraid of getting hack-a-shacked.
Unlike Shaq, Wlad will get his on the free throw line- so it might win the game.
But fans will point that shit out. It's what we do.:rolleyes:
Re: How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be
Well I'm like anyone else, I wanna see Gatti/Ward, Castillo/Corales, Hagler/Hearns, I want to see knockouts, knockdowns, cuts, swollen eyes, drama, back and forth action, ect. I think where I differ from most fans is that I don't believe it's a boxer's responsibility to provide those things. A boxer's job is to win the fight. He doesn't owe me a knockout, a knockdown, or a close, back and forth fight. I also don't believe that a fighter's level of excitement factors in to how good a fighter is. Again, I think the only thing that decides if a fighter is great is whether or not he's great a winning fights, whether he's knocking everyone out early like GGG or he's going the distance every time out like Mayweather. Often (but obviously not always), being exciting shows a deficit in skill, because you need to fight recklessly, you're hitting and getting hit, your fights are close with a lot of back and forth because you can't control the pace of a fighter, ect (think: Arturo Gatti).
In boxing and in life in general, I can't fault a guy for doing what's best for him (as long as it isn't illegal or immoral). Wlad fights in a way where he gives his opponents as small a chance to win as possible, and he takes as little damage as possible so he can hopefully have a good quality of life after boxing. Wlad isn't fucking anyone over, everyone knows how he fights and what he does. So more power to him: Wlad is a great fighter because he's great at winning fights.
