How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be

[TitoFan]

C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.

I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.

No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.

[Beanflicker]

I'm not saying the guy couldn't stand to be more exciting, I just don't think being technical has much to do with being exciting. Tyson is a great but rare example of a guy who's highly technical style actually produced a lot of excitement. His body type necessitated a lot of head movement because, like Joe Frazier, he was constantly trying to bullrush and get inside on taller guys with longer reach, who could hit him from a distance that he couldn't hit them. The greatest defence for a pure boxer was always to control the distance with great footwork, and Wlad has seemingly mastered that so you have to give him his props.

I get the excitement thing though, I think he often grabs too much and doesn't press hard enough at times and is essentially too cautious, but I've seen all the great boxing HW's do the same thing at one point or another.

[El Kabong]

Yeah he fought REAL scared vs Pulev

Always with the comparisons to Tyson....newsflash Wlad is 6'6, he's NOT going to have success fighting like Tyson. Wlad fights in the manner that makes him the most successful, and he's KO'd more boxers than Tyson did doing it. Wlad fights smart and this is why we're still talking about him being champion rather than him being retired because he kept trying to force something that didn't work.

Everyone brings up hugging and clinching and mauling.....did you guys forget a fella named Evander Holyfield He kinda sorta maybe went his entire career ramming his forehead through the guard of his opponents and winning tedious fights? Did we forget that guy Only Evander didn't KO near as many people as Wlad does. In the heavyweight division right now Wlad is the 1992 Dream Team and everyone else is Angola.....he's fighting very technically, he's winning by KO, and the fights aren't close....sorry he's not sorry because he's such a damn good boxer.


You guys think boring and that's fine....I don't I see how it works hit and don't get hit in return....if boxing truly is "the sweet science" then Wlad is not just Dr. Steelhammer, he's PROFESSOR Steelhammer

[Beanflicker]

Wlad is one of the greatest HW's of all time, there's no getting around it. He's fought every kind of style and body type you can think of and beat them all without taking much damage. My main knock on him is that he's notoriously been boring when most eyes were on him, like the Ibragimov fight in MSG or the Haye fight. I know Haye and Ibragimov were passive and were also at fault for making the fights boring, but Wlad has to realize he's the big name, it's his show and it's up to him to make a statement when it counts.

He's one of the best HW technicians of all time and has power in both hands to boot.

[TitoFan]

Lyle:

Ok so you're not Mr. Objectivity when it comes to Wlad. Everybody knows that.

Nobody said he fights scared against all opponents. Quit putting words into other people's mouths. He only fights scared against those precious few opponents that can bang and come into the ring with the right attitude (wanting to knock the Doctor's head off).

Also.... Tyson wasn't the only comparison, just the one you choose to harp on because of the vast height difference. Again, don't pick and choose. Look at the entire underlying message before you respond defensively. Yes, Holyfield was a headbutter. Didn't like that aspect about him at all. But did you just ignore the other examples of heavyweight defensive fighters who did not have to resort to mauling, clinching and fouling? Out of sheer terror??

Surely you can do better than that.

[El Kabong]

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

You look at Wlad vs Chagaev, and it was pure domination. Short notice fight, against a southpaw, should have been a unification bout if not for Sauerland's meddling and Wlad stopped Ruslan, who was undefeated at the time.


No, not every fight Wlad has been in is amazing, the Ibragimov fight sucked, the Haye fight sucked, the Povetkin fight sucked, but more often than not Wlad dominates and he wins by KO....what more could you ask for? You guys wish to see Wlad put himself in dangerous situations needlessly.

[Beanflicker]

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

For sure, both guys fought scared to death of Wlad. Especially Haye, who probably had the most shameful, disappointing performance ever after all the crap he talked.

I just think in those instances, if you're the star of the show you can't let an opponent drag you down and make you look bad. Sometimes that means taking risks you wouldn't normally take. I would have liked to have seen him step it up more and try harder to get those guys out of there. Even Manny Stewart was going crazy in the corner during the Sultan fight.

[El Kabong]

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

For sure, both guys fought scared to death of Wlad. Especially Haye, who probably had the most shameful, disappointing performance ever after all the crap he talked.

I just think in those instances, if you're the star of the show you can't let an opponent drag you down and make you look bad. Sometimes that means taking risks you wouldn't normally take. I would have liked to have seen him step it up more and try harder to get those guys out of there. Even Manny Stewart was going crazy in the corner during the Sultan fight.

Fair enough, but at the same time Wlad wins round after round after round...yes the fight is boring, the result not so much because Wlad wins rounds then he wins the fight. Put yourself in David Haye's shoes (be careful not to hurt your toe doing it).....or Sultan's shoes....what would you as those fighters want to see Wlad do? You'd want him to throw wild and leave an opening for a big counter punch right? He never gave them a chance of winning by fighting as he did and they never gave themselves a chance of winning fighting the way they did....path of least resistance for both Wlad and his opponents really. There was only 1 guy boxing in those fights and that was Wlad.

You're absolutely right in that everyone wanted a big KO one way or another, we as fans always want that, and if we didn't get that we wanted action...Sultan and Haye failed to deliver anything....Wlad did his part, but was not pressed into doing anything extra. Had Sultan made a charge and tried to engage Wlad would have KO'd him same with Haye.

[TitoFan]

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

For sure, both guys fought scared to death of Wlad. Especially Haye, who probably had the most shameful, disappointing performance ever after all the crap he talked.

I just think in those instances, if you're the star of the show you can't let an opponent drag you down and make you look bad. Sometimes that means taking risks you wouldn't normally take. I would have liked to have seen him step it up more and try harder to get those guys out of there. Even Manny Stewart was going crazy in the corner during the Sultan fight.

This has always been my point as well. You think I applaud either Sultan or Haye for their respective... (cough)... efforts? Hell no. Especially Haye, who after all his huge mouth running non-stop, turned in a disgraceful performance and then blamed his big toe. But the name of the game is boxing.... not Twelve Rounds of Pawing. If Wlad, as heavyweight champion of the world, cannot devise a way to engage a Sultan without exposing his fragile chin.... and thus decides to return Sultan's pawing with more of his own.... then he's not as technical as you are all making him out to be. He's the frigging HW champion of the world, for chrissakes! Good point about Manny, Bean. When even Wlad's corner is imploring for him to do something besides jabbing from a safe distance.... you know something's up.

[SlimTrae]

C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.

I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.

No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.

You're right; A 240lb Ike Ibeabuchi averaged 80+ punches per round- damn near 970+ by his damn self- that shit is called will power. A Wladimir Clinchko doesn't have that dog in him like his older bro. Hit Vitali hard- he's gotta get back or try...His ripped up face compliments of Lennox bares him witness.
But baby bro?
Wlad's got clinchitis.
Boxers aka Fighters like Ali or Holmes may clinch, may cover up, may return fire- when they are under fire..

But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.
Doesnt make him a bad guy, just means he will only throw his bombs...when the coast is clear bwaahaaaa!

[El Kabong]

Ike Ibeabuchi probably suffered from CTE due to the war he had with Tua and Ibeabuchi is awaiting deportation back to Nigeria.....meanwhile Wlad is an ALL-TIME GREAT Heavyweight Champion.


But I digress

[jon09]

Wlad's going keep fighting until the wheels fall off.

[SlimTrae]

But I digress

Yes you already did!

[TitoFan]

C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.

I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.

No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.

You're right; A 240lb Ike Ibeabuchi averaged 80+ punches per round- damn near 970+ by his damn self- that shit is called will power. A Wladimir Clinchko doesn't have that dog in him like his older bro. Hit Vitali hard- he's gotta get back or try...His ripped up face compliments of Lennox bares him witness.
But baby bro?
Wlad's got clinchitis.
Boxers aka Fighters like Ali or Holmes may clinch, may cover up, may return fire- when they are under fire..

But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.
Doesnt make him a bad guy, just means he will only throw his bombs...when the coast is clear bwaahaaaa!

There you go.

Maybe because someone else said it, it will be more acceptable..... 'cause everybody knows I'm just a big ol' Wlad hater and have never given him any credit for anything.

Ever.

[Beanflicker]

But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.

He tried that, and it got him KTFO vs Sanders

Ibeabuchi and Tuaman threw a ton of punches, which is exhausting and they showed a ton of heart, but they were standing still. They weren't constantly moving their feet, ducking, dodging, ect, which will wear out a big man a lot quicker. They basically both went 12 rounds on the heavy bag, and from what I've read about Ibeabuchi suffering brain damage and going crazy after that fight, it probably wasn't the best idea.

It's kind of getting beat into the ground, if people want to love or hate Wlad, that's cool with me. But if you want to boil it all down, if I'm a heavyweight boxer... I want to be Wlad. No brain damage, no mangled face, huge following, undisputed #1 HW in the world, big money every fight, hot Hollywood actress wife... this guy is doing it right.