The Myth of the British National Health Servi

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Originally Posted by Beanz

'Coercion at the point of a gun/The threat of jail?' You literally have no idea do you Lyle. People want to support the NHS. The ones destroying it are the elite born into privilege who have no need of it like the Current Health Secretary Jeremy CHunt , a man born into the same moneyed state as your Idol The Donald. Funny how you and The Brock are basically aligning yourselves with the aristiocracy and Royals.


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Yes YOU have the NHS and perhaps that is different I (an American) have the ACA and YES the way we citizens support that is COERCION AT THE POINT OF A GUN/THE THREAT OF JAIL.

Single Family
2017 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2016 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2015 $325 or 2% of income $975 or 2% of income
2014 $95 or 1% of income $285 or 1% of income


Those are the TAX penalties for not having health insurance under the ACA....pay them unless you want to go to jail or get health insurance either way your money leaves your pocket and not because you CHOOSE but because the Government has decreed. When the Government decrees it does so ALWAYS behind the force of the Armed Forces and Police that is how laws work.



How am I aligning myself here? I've not made a political statement in regards to anything other than I don't personally enjoy the ACA....I also wanted to see others' views on the NHS.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Beanz

'Coercion at the point of a gun/The threat of jail?' You literally have no idea do you Lyle. People want to support the NHS. The ones destroying it are the elite born into privilege who have no need of it like the Current Health Secretary Jeremy CHunt , a man born into the same moneyed state as your Idol The Donald. Funny how you and The Brock are basically aligning yourselves with the aristiocracy and Royals.


Attachment 3934

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Yes YOU have the NHS and perhaps that is different I (an American) have the ACA and YES the way we citizens support that is COERCION AT THE POINT OF A GUN/THE THREAT OF JAIL.

Single Family
2017 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2016 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2015 $325 or 2% of income $975 or 2% of income
2014 $95 or 1% of income $285 or 1% of income


Those are the TAX penalties for not having health insurance under the ACA....pay them unless you want to go to jail or get health insurance either way your money leaves your pocket and not because you CHOOSE but because the Government has decreed. When the Government decrees it does so ALWAYS behind the force of the Armed Forces and Police that is how laws work.



How am I aligning myself here? I've not made a political statement in regards to anything other than I don't personally enjoy the ACA....I also wanted to see others' views on the NHS.

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You don't go to jail for not paying the penalty.

If whatever the GOP come up with to replace Obamacare contains penalties for not taking out insurance will you still think it's tyranny?

You see right there @Beanz right there! You are making stuff up and then doubling down on it, trying to invent ways to confirm your bias. You have no qualms about portraying me as one who cannot tolerate a differing opinion. You conclude that I in some way should've "bought into" not Trump but Clinton and 4 more years of "cops are bad/open the borders/don't detain ARRESTED illegals/catch&release/obamacare/PC INFINITY....and because Trump voters protested that fecal matter.named HillObama, it makes me a royal.

Mate you just couldn't make.this stuff up.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

You don't go to jail for not paying the penalty.

If whatever the GOP come up with to replace Obamacare contains penalties for not taking out insurance will you still think it's tyranny?

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OK, so you have your refund taken. The government keeps the money you overpaid in taxes until they have an amount equal to what you owe and if you choose not to file or pay taxes you will end up in jail.


I do not want healthcare to be a requirement for me to be considered a legal and law abiding citizen, is that so difficult to understand? I will still not like the healthcare plan if it's mandated by the government regardless of who is currently running the government because that changes and will no doubt change many times during my lifetime and should some party that does not like me personally be in charge of the government then they'd have more of my life at their finger tips ready to control....so no I will not like it if the Republicans have penalties in there....is that OK?

You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

You see right there @Beanz right there! You are making stuff up and then doubling down on it, trying to invent ways to confirm your bias. You have no qualms about portraying me as one who cannot tolerate a differing opinion. You conclude that I in some way should've "bought into" not Trump but Clinton and 4 more years of "cops are bad/open the borders/don't detain ARRESTED illegals/catch&release/obamacare/PC INFINITY....and because Trump voters protested that fecal matter.named HillObama, it makes me a royal.Mate you just couldn't make.this stuff up.

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There is no way I would have suggested you vote for Clinton. Ever. I wouldn't have suggested you teach illegal Immigrants either but you seem to be in as much denial as the Donald.

Beanz only 15% of my students are illegal. 85% are on Catastrophe Visas/Earthquake Visas (Nepali and Bhutanese), Domestic Violence Victim/Battered Woman status, Southeast Asian Women's Empowerment programs and F-1 student visas.

So of my 4 permanent classes @16 per class, there are over 56 LEGAL immigrants. That leaves no.more than 10 illegals. So what are you on about me being a royal? If I were any farther from being a royal, the NYPD would have zoomed in already.

Trump is the American equivalent of Royalty except unlike most of those hideous reptiles he hasn't even served his country in the armed services. You love him. In the face.Two times.

I love Donald Trump. He defeated the MSM Mind Control PC SJW SCUM even though everything was rigged against him.

You bet I love him.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

I love Donald Trump. He defeated the MSM Mind Control PC SJW SCUM even though everything was rigged against him.You bet I love him.

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Yes he was a virtual unknown. Nobody who watched mainstream American network television or crappy reality shows had ever heard of him. Despite working his way up from being a penniless orphan and becoming a long term underground political activist he was roundly ignored throughout the campaign so nobody gave him any coverage whatsoever. Then on top of that some teenage girls were really mean to him on snapbebotwatterbook and a baby was even hypnotised and trained to cry when he picked it up. What a hero. Despite all that, he made it.

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Originally Posted by X

When the NHS was formed in 1948, it was one of the greatest social achievements of any nation in the history of humanity. Setting up a healthcare system, for all citizens, free at the point of delivery was superb. The fact it was set up under an overarching set of Guiding Principles also illustrated the morality and aspiration of the scheme.

Britain in 1948 was a very different place to today. The country was nearly bankrupt following the war, the Empire was dissolving and malnutrition and life threatening sickness were rife. Average life expectancy for men was 66, the greatest issues were pneumonia, meningitis, polio and child mortality. This was the first time in the world that such a system has been set up.

fast forward nearly 70 years and things are very different;

Life expectancy is well over 70 now, and there has been a massive increase in palliative and complex treatments. These are much more expensive and time consuming than 'simply' curing the previous diseases which people suffered from.

our ageing population means we have already passed the mathematical point in time when working people (who pay tax to fund the system) have been outnumbered by non-working or retired people who no longer pay anything in. It is not relevant to say that they have already paid in for their working lifetimes because the system is not a 'bankable' one. In other words, money goes in every year and money goes out every year .... people do not build a fund of monies for treatment

It is a public point of grievance that non U.K. Citizens, foreigners and refugees etc are able to access the system equally despite having never paid anything towards it. Nobody really knows how many of these do so.

This means that it is essentially impossible to adequately budget for the services, nobody really knows how much next year will cost, nor where the pinch points will be in the service.

it is a fact that the Service has moved away from simply treating life threatening illnesses, which is what it was intended to do, towards palliative and lifestyle issues; dementia, Alzheimer's, smoking and alcohol related issues, obesity etc. It was not meant for that. Even today, the NHS is superb at dealing with emergencies, but not so good at non-emergencies.

Worst of all, the NHS has become a political football. The public and media 'love' the NHS, it is 'the best health service in the world', the 'envy of other countries', it is 'precious', everybody who works in the NHS is a 'hard working angel'. The media and politicians always trumpet they will 'save the NHS', or its 'in crisis' at an existential humanitarian level.

having personally worked on the fringes of the service for 20 years, and my wife has worked within it for 25, I can confidently say that therefore as many lazy good for nothing tossers working there as in any other big organisation. The leadership is sorely lacking, and the system is institutionally set up to resist change and innovation. Being run by the government really is a fate worth than death too.

Final salary pensions are pretty extinct now, because of black and white maths and also various government robberies of funds. Longevity and an imbalance in age demographics means they are financially simply unsustainable. Surely the same logic remorselessly applies to the NHS too?

Currently, we have a system that was fit for purpose in 1948. Now it's badly led, it's doing things it wasn't intended to do, it is simply too big and cumbersome to manage properly, it is very inefficient .... but it has become a 'holy grail' in the minds of the media, politicians and the public.

where to go?

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Trouble is if you want a NHS service you have to pay.
Our NHS is for British people simple the public sector is saturated with middle management, ! who don't produce anything they have nothing jobs most are in the 30 to 40 thousand pounds a year salary.
The NHS suffers from far to much management not enough front line workers.
Right income tax need to increase for this service simple.
Poor management is a plauge in this Country, we have undervalued our healthcare no investment in providing home trained doctors and nurses , we are reliant on poorly trained so called health care professionals.
How do I no this my wife and daughter work in health care.
My daughter works in palutive care with in the NHS.
Remember you want the NHS you got to pay for its a lot cheaper than what America has to offer, which is over priced ripped off.
We are lucky the yanks are not count your blessings, remember you have a accident over here no fucker goes through your pockets looking for a credit card.!

Beans when did anybody ever say that he was unknown before he ran or that he was not a super rich person? Nobody has ever claimed that

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Beans when did anybody ever say that he was unknown before he ran or that he was not a super rich person? Nobody has ever claimed that

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Everything was rigged against him ?

That sounds mighty victim like and is actually completely untrue. At least you are consistent in ignoring every single salient point though that might undermine your assertions.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Trump is the American equivalent of Royalty except unlike most of those hideous reptiles he hasn't even served his country in the armed services. You love him. In the face.Two times.

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.....we don't do royalty

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

You don't go to jail for not paying the penalty.

If whatever the GOP come up with to replace Obamacare contains penalties for not taking out insurance will you still think it's tyranny?

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OK, so you have your refund taken. The government keeps the money you overpaid in taxes until they have an amount equal to what you owe and if you choose not to file or pay taxes you will end up in jail.


I do not want healthcare to be a requirement for me to be considered a legal and law abiding citizen, is that so difficult to understand? I will still not like the healthcare plan if it's mandated by the government regardless of who is currently running the government because that changes and will no doubt change many times during my lifetime and should some party that does not like me personally be in charge of the government then they'd have more of my life at their finger tips ready to control....so no I will not like it if the Republicans have penalties in there....is that OK?

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If you don't pay taxes in any country you ultimately go to jail. The entire first world must all be tyrannies then.

So if the GOP enact some similar kind of mandate you'll consider that as tyrannical as Obama?

You're already mandated to pay for your social security and for your healthcare after the age of sixty five. You're paying for them right now. What's the difference between paying for future healthcare via taxes and paying for current healthcare?