Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
This really is quite simple. Nobody was saying “what I really want to see is GGG vs Murata”, sure it makes sense and can be justified but it wasn’t the fight anyone wanted.
That falls off the table and again we get a name that can be justified but again it isn’t one of the fights anyone wanted.
When you constantly have to defend without consideration to best opponents you have to resort to tricks like Fenster or acknowledge there are fights we want and are not getting, and have not been getting. Brant is an okay fight but it isn’t among the desired fights, Murata was an okay fight but not amongst the desired fights.
Can we justify Centeno or Monroe? Both very far from desired.
I think the difference is that GGG can basically have his pick because everybody is lining up to fight him. No one is lining up to fight Charlo because he is a high risk low reward fight. I think once Charlo breaks through, he will take big fights.
I just think that GGG is looking at the money at this point in his career (understandably) and that’s why he can take an easy fight (Brant) and stall until a third Canelo fight. I get his reasoning, but as a fan of the sport, I want to see GGG other fighters.
Your last sentence is bang on, we all would do the same, try to set our families and ourselves up for the future. It's not the easiest way to make a living.
Can I ask who you would like GGG to fight next, if you could make it happen?
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
This really is quite simple. Nobody was saying “what I really want to see is GGG vs Murata”, sure it makes sense and can be justified but it wasn’t the fight anyone wanted.
That falls off the table and again we get a name that can be justified but again it isn’t one of the fights anyone wanted.
When you constantly have to defend without consideration to best opponents you have to resort to tricks like Fenster or acknowledge there are fights we want and are not getting, and have not been getting. Brant is an okay fight but it isn’t among the desired fights, Murata was an okay fight but not amongst the desired fights.
Can we justify Centeno or Monroe? Both very far from desired.
I think the difference is that GGG can basically have his pick because everybody is lining up to fight him. No one is lining up to fight Charlo because he is a high risk low reward fight. I think once Charlo breaks through, he will take big fights.
I just think that GGG is looking at the money at this point in his career (understandably) and that’s why he can take an easy fight (Brant) and stall until a third Canelo fight. I get his reasoning, but as a fan of the sport, I want to see GGG other fighters.
Your last sentence is bang on, we all would do the same, try to set our families and ourselves up for the future. It's not the easiest way to make a living.
Can I ask who you would like GGG to fight next, if you could make it happen?
Depends on when he fights. If he is waiting for a September fight with Canelo, then he can take a little more of a break. I would rather he fights Charlo (my #1 choice) or Jacobs in April. I would be completely fine with Andrade though. BJS is a good fight too, but he messed himself up. I would also still be happy with Derevyanchenko. Brant is easily behind those fighters.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
This really is quite simple. Nobody was saying “what I really want to see is GGG vs Murata”, sure it makes sense and can be justified but it wasn’t the fight anyone wanted.
That falls off the table and again we get a name that can be justified but again it isn’t one of the fights anyone wanted.
When you constantly have to defend without consideration to best opponents you have to resort to tricks like Fenster or acknowledge there are fights we want and are not getting, and have not been getting. Brant is an okay fight but it isn’t among the desired fights, Murata was an okay fight but not amongst the desired fights.
Can we justify Centeno or Monroe? Both very far from desired.
I think the difference is that GGG can basically have his pick because everybody is lining up to fight him. No one is lining up to fight Charlo because he is a high risk low reward fight. I think once Charlo breaks through, he will take big fights.
I just think that GGG is looking at the money at this point in his career (understandably) and that’s why he can take an easy fight (Brant) and stall until a third Canelo fight. I get his reasoning, but as a fan of the sport, I want to see GGG other fighters.
Your last sentence is bang on, we all would do the same, try to set our families and ourselves up for the future. It's not the easiest way to make a living.
Can I ask who you would like GGG to fight next, if you could make it happen?
Depends on when he fights. If he is waiting for a September fight with Canelo, then he can take a little more of a break. I would rather he fights Charlo (my #1 choice) or Jacobs in April. I would be completely fine with Andrade though. BJS is a good fight too, but he messed himself up. I would also still be happy with Derevyanchenko. Brant is easily behind those fighters.
I would prefer a Jacobs rematch, they are arguably the 2 best in the division. But again its a guy GGG has fought before.
If it was someone who he hadn't yet fought, then Derevyanchenko would be my preference.
GGG could go with ESPN and fight Ramirez at 168, to add another name to the mix.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
I agree with this. People seem to forget GGG has fought at MW his entire career. Talking about Canelo going up to 168 vs. GGG going up to 168 is like apples and oranges. GGG is an older fighter. There's no sense in him at this stage of his career to look at anything at 168. Which is why talk years past of him meeting Ward at 168 was nonsensical to me. GGG would be destroyed at 168 by some of the fast, big punchers up there.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
I agree with this. People seem to forget GGG has fought at MW his entire career. Talking about Canelo going up to 168 vs. GGG going up to 168 is like apples and oranges. GGG is an older fighter. There's no sense in him at this stage of his career to look at anything at 168. Which is why talk years past of him meeting Ward at 168 was nonsensical to me. GGG would be destroyed at 168 by some of the fast, big punchers up there.
I think GGG would be competitive with anyone at 168 right now. And if he signed to fight Ramirez next, I'd pick GGG to knock him out. Obviously ESPN has been trying to interest him, so they may be trying to dangle Ramirez to entice him. If the $$$ are right why shouldn't he take Ramirez at 168?
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
I agree with this. People seem to forget GGG has fought at MW his entire career. Talking about Canelo going up to 168 vs. GGG going up to 168 is like apples and oranges. GGG is an older fighter. There's no sense in him at this stage of his career to look at anything at 168. Which is why talk years past of him meeting Ward at 168 was nonsensical to me. GGG would be destroyed at 168 by some of the fast, big punchers up there.
I think GGG would be competitive with anyone at 168 right now. And if he signed to fight Ramirez next, I'd pick GGG to knock him out. Obviously ESPN has been trying to interest him, so they may be trying to dangle Ramirez to entice him. If the $$$ are right why shouldn't he take Ramirez at 168?
You really think a fighter who spends his entire career at MW can just up and be successful against the best at 168? I think weight jumps are best done in a fighter's prime or close to it. If GGG were to be halfway successful at 168, I'd say it was due partly to the relative lack of talent at that weight versus other divisions. Not knocking GGG, as I'm a big fan.... and there's something to be said for a fighter staying at one weight. But moving to 168 now would seem just weird.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
I agree with this. People seem to forget GGG has fought at MW his entire career. Talking about Canelo going up to 168 vs. GGG going up to 168 is like apples and oranges. GGG is an older fighter. There's no sense in him at this stage of his career to look at anything at 168. Which is why talk years past of him meeting Ward at 168 was nonsensical to me. GGG would be destroyed at 168 by some of the fast, big punchers up there.
I think GGG would be competitive with anyone at 168 right now. And if he signed to fight Ramirez next, I'd pick GGG to knock him out. Obviously ESPN has been trying to interest him, so they may be trying to dangle Ramirez to entice him. If the $$$ are right why shouldn't he take Ramirez at 168?
You really think a fighter who spends his entire career at MW can just up and be successful against the best at 168? I think weight jumps are best done in a fighter's prime or close to it. If GGG were to be halfway successful at 168, I'd say it was due partly to the relative lack of talent at that weight versus other divisions. Not knocking GGG, as I'm a big fan.... and there's something to be said for a fighter staying at one weight. But moving to 168 now would seem just weird.
Most fighters these days tend to move up as they age. Don't see why it would be such a huge difference for GGG. I'm not saying he should, or that a Ramirez fight is a fight I'd be interested in, just that it's another option on the table for GGG. I think he needs to go with DAZN, they now have all the 160 titles.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
I agree with this. People seem to forget GGG has fought at MW his entire career. Talking about Canelo going up to 168 vs. GGG going up to 168 is like apples and oranges. GGG is an older fighter. There's no sense in him at this stage of his career to look at anything at 168. Which is why talk years past of him meeting Ward at 168 was nonsensical to me. GGG would be destroyed at 168 by some of the fast, big punchers up there.
I think GGG would be competitive with anyone at 168 right now. And if he signed to fight Ramirez next, I'd pick GGG to knock him out. Obviously ESPN has been trying to interest him, so they may be trying to dangle Ramirez to entice him. If the $$$ are right why shouldn't he take Ramirez at 168?
You really think a fighter who spends his entire career at MW can just up and be successful against the best at 168? I think weight jumps are best done in a fighter's prime or close to it. If GGG were to be halfway successful at 168, I'd say it was due partly to the relative lack of talent at that weight versus other divisions. Not knocking GGG, as I'm a big fan.... and there's something to be said for a fighter staying at one weight. But moving to 168 now would seem just weird.
Most fighters these days tend to move up as they age. Don't see why it would be such a huge difference for GGG. I'm not saying he should, or that a Ramirez fight is a fight I'd be interested in, just that it's another option on the table for GGG. I think he needs to go with DAZN, they now have all the 160 titles.
Golovkins never really been a big middleweight though, has he?
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
Slim the BoxingManiac
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
Alpha
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
I agree with this. People seem to forget GGG has fought at MW his entire career. Talking about Canelo going up to 168 vs. GGG going up to 168 is like apples and oranges. GGG is an older fighter. There's no sense in him at this stage of his career to look at anything at 168. Which is why talk years past of him meeting Ward at 168 was nonsensical to me. GGG would be destroyed at 168 by some of the fast, big punchers up there.
I think GGG would be competitive with anyone at 168 right now. And if he signed to fight Ramirez next, I'd pick GGG to knock him out. Obviously ESPN has been trying to interest him, so they may be trying to dangle Ramirez to entice him. If the $$$ are right why shouldn't he take Ramirez at 168?
You really think a fighter who spends his entire career at MW can just up and be successful against the best at 168? I think weight jumps are best done in a fighter's prime or close to it. If GGG were to be halfway successful at 168, I'd say it was due partly to the relative lack of talent at that weight versus other divisions. Not knocking GGG, as I'm a big fan.... and there's something to be said for a fighter staying at one weight. But moving to 168 now would seem just weird.
Most fighters these days tend to move up as they age. Don't see why it would be such a huge difference for GGG. I'm not saying he should, or that a Ramirez fight is a fight I'd be interested in, just that it's another option on the table for GGG. I think he needs to go with DAZN, they now have all the 160 titles.
Golovkins never really been a big middleweight though, has he?
No he hasn't, but I think he's more than capable of beating Ramirez.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
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Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
FTR in a vacuum I have no problem with a Brant fight. It’s when you look it it through the scope of years and years of not taking on the very best that it’s bothersome. And I don’t care to hear about who didn’t want to fight him. I only care about who he could fight and chose not to. And I only care about that because I’ve always thought very highly of him as a fighter. My issue with GGG is the endless run of uninspiring opponents. And how it is all explained away. Right now he can choose ANYONE. Right now he should choose the best opponents.
Jacobs
Canelo
Canelo
In three of his last four fights Golovkin has faced top three ranked middleweights, he's done exactly what you're claiming he hasn't.
Now we all know you don't hate Golovkin, don't worry, Ron, we know you DO NOT hate Golovkin, but it seems from the evidence above that even when Golovkin has faced the best guys available you claim he hasn't.
Unfortunately, Ron, there's not a serious boxing fan on earth who can make a case for Charlo being a bigger fight for Golovkin than those two. Swap either for Charlo and Golovkin's resume/status becomes weaker.
I knew you couldn’t resist your chance to try to deceive everyone.
In one argument it’s all what you’ve done at a weight. Well what the f has Canelo done at the weight? Let’s look
Cotto, was never a real MW, win
GGG, lost and got a BS decision
GGG, most feel he lost again
So by most accounts he is 1-2 with exactly 0 wins against a real MW. By your method he clearly is not one of the best MWs.
Everyone here recognizes I am not saying Charlo is the only fight. But again you attempt to deceive. It’s what you do.
Tell us again how good Murata is. Tell us how good Brant is. Or maybe it isn’t about how good they are at all, how completely off the point of sport that is.
This is the most ridiculous comeback i've ever read. Canelo PROVED himself against Golovkin, regardless of the outcome (and for what it's worth was the lineal champion after beating Cotto). Jacobs ENHANCED his status with his effort against Golovkin, regardless of the outcome. Those LOSSES are far, far superior form than victories over journeymen like Jorge Sebastian Heiland!!!
Charlo doesn't have any form at 160 to rank close to the men mentioned, yet you claim "Golovkin is on an endless run of uninspiring opponents"!!! Then call me a deceiving, trickster conning the forum for pointing out how WEAK your argument is!!!
You quite simply don't understand impartiality or consistency. It's not personal and you don't speak for anyone but yourself. It's not deception or lies it's smashing weak arguments to bits with facts, logic and evidence. Fact.
Everyone in the boxing world is a deceptive, lying, trickster for ranking Canelo and Jacobs like Fenster.
The Ring
C. Canelo Alvarez
1. Gennady Golovkin
2. Daniel Jacobs
ESPN
1. Canelo Alvarez
2. Gennady Golovkin
3. Daniel Jacobs
Boxing News
1. Canelo Alvarez
2. Gennady Golovkin
3. Daniel Jacobs
SADDO Forum
1. Gennady Golovkin
2. Canelo Alvarez
3. Danny Jacobs
TBR
C. Saul Alvarez
1. Gennady Golovkin
2. Daniel Jacobs
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
Damn. I read those rankings and get very very sad.
Not disputing they're what they are. Just saying it just shows how so much can be "achieved" in boxing through smoke and mirrors.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I think 168 is just too big for GGG. Especially at this age. He will be giving up his power most likely which will be a huge disadvantage for him. I’m not that high on Ramirez, but I think he could turn it into a war and make GGG very uncomfortable.
I agree with this. People seem to forget GGG has fought at MW his entire career. Talking about Canelo going up to 168 vs. GGG going up to 168 is like apples and oranges. GGG is an older fighter. There's no sense in him at this stage of his career to look at anything at 168. Which is why talk years past of him meeting Ward at 168 was nonsensical to me. GGG would be destroyed at 168 by some of the fast, big punchers up there.
Which is all very true. But his team let him down by now saying “maybe we would go up for the right fight, maybe Smith.” Maybe they should fuck off.
Re: They're talking GGG-Brant now
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Damn. I read those rankings and get very very sad.
Not disputing they're what they are. Just saying it just shows how so much can be "achieved" in boxing through smoke and mirrors.
True. Canelo gets to champion status by conning his way into a MW title then paying off the judges in two fights.
